General Discussion

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)

52. i heard of motown when it actually existed. and detroit was a thriving city with a strong

Sat Jul 20, 2013, 11:41 PM

Jul 2013

black middle class at the time.

yes, it *could* have a renaissance. if there were money & jobs.

arty type don't make renaissances unless they have PATRONS WITH MONEY.

That's the secret of the actual renaissance.

sorry, i erased my snarky comments. you actually sound like myself as a young person. i too would see things like arts & music 'scenes' & think 'see, you don't need money!!' with stars in my eyes.

then i figured out how things actually work. without money in the picture, you can go into a ghetto & make art & music until kingdom come. you can be immensely talented, creative -- i meet immensely talented people literally every day.

without money in the picture, the place will remain a ghetto & you will remain unknown except to the locals.

and no one will move into your ghetto because -- it's still a ghetto, albeit a musical one. but poverty has always had its music & art, & no one cared about it or heard about it but the locals until some money came around.

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Six crazy ideas for saving Detroit [View all] ErikJ Jul 2013 OP

Citizenship. ZX86 Jul 2013 #1

work? if there were lots of jobs there, the problem would already be solved. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #14

I'm no expert on urban planning. ZX86 Jul 2013 #19

no. they bring CAPITAL. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #30

Yse, in my inner city neighborhood, lots and lots of home renovation and remodeling ErikJ Jul 2013 #74

Rip the freeways out of inner Detroit and put in streetcars ErikJ Jul 2013 #2

And what would these people do? former9thward Jul 2013 #4

I said just inner Detroit..... at least. ErikJ Jul 2013 #9

The employers want and need freeways. former9thward Jul 2013 #11

BS. Cars are what are ultimately destroying Detroit. ErikJ Jul 2013 #18

But for cars, there wouldn't BE a Detroit philosslayer Jul 2013 #20

So what? Total car dependency is what kills any city. ErikJ Jul 2013 #41

Are those street cars going to bring supplies to factories and business? former9thward Jul 2013 #21

Factories are normally located in the outer parts of modern day metro areas now. ErikJ Jul 2013 #43

Now you have gone 180 degrees. former9thward Jul 2013 #62

Oh, factory work is soooo 19th century NickB79 Jul 2013 #100

all the 'creative types' are in *advertising,* doncha know. ADVERTISING. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #112

What is really weird is the superheavy, multi-axle trucks they allow to carry steel, etc. FarCenter Jul 2013 #26

So is your idea to try and make it so only barges can bring steel into Detroit? Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #29

Rail is also a good alternative. Moving steel by truck is very inefficient and it beats up the roads FarCenter Jul 2013 #36

So you just kind of expect a rail line to every factory? There's a reason that trucks exist. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #37

Factories involved with heavy freight are usually built along rail lines or spurs. FarCenter Jul 2013 #44

Those specs are for 5 axle trucks. A HERETIC I AM Jul 2013 #117

streetcars for *who*? to *where*? you act like there's some thriving business community HiPointDem Jul 2013 #32

Unincorporate most of Detroit into about a dozen new suburbs FarCenter Jul 2013 #3

No, make the whole Metro area into one big city. ErikJ Jul 2013 #6

That worked out real good for Toronto . . . ConcernedCanuk Jul 2013 #12

Toronto ranks as one of the most livable cities in the WORLD! NYC is the Big Apple. ErikJ Jul 2013 #22

TO is in debt up to it's neck ConcernedCanuk Jul 2013 #55

World's Most Livable Cities Index: Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary Take Spots In Top 10 ErikJ Jul 2013 #78

The New York Metro area is NOT "one big city" brooklynite Jul 2013 #92

That might work if you cut per capita spending in Detroit down to what is is in the burbs. FarCenter Jul 2013 #17

The problem is that Detroit population is half what it used to be and ErikJ Jul 2013 #23

Suburbs around major cities are designed to prevent the wealth redistribution scheme you advocate FarCenter Jul 2013 #35

BANKS are the biggest tax dodgers in Detroit. Not residents. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #33

Free space for artists, organic growers, restaurants, theater groups, architects. Peregrine Took Jul 2013 #5

Good idea! --and microbreweries too. ErikJ Jul 2013 #7

That's just gentrification. It will only push out the poor. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #13

And large concentration of poverty is better than gentrification? ErikJ Jul 2013 #25

Do you not understand the definition of gentrification? Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #28

BS. The gentrified parts of my city are very integrated. ErikJ Jul 2013 #38

Which city do you live in? Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #42

Portland Or ErikJ Jul 2013 #46

Portland is like a perfect microcosm of all that is wrong with gentrification... Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #50

there were never 'miles' of boarded up main streets in portland. and there are not roving bands HiPointDem Jul 2013 #79

Surely you dont condone the status quo of large concentrations of urban poverty do you? ErikJ Jul 2013 #82

you apparently condone the new status quo of large concentrations of suburban poverty. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #83

That little "yupster development" of mostly retirees is pumping millions of revenue into the city. ErikJ Jul 2013 #85

ooooooooohhhhhh. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #91

and they can't fund their schools, despite all those award-winning 'millions'. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #94

You sound almost exactly like the Clackistan Tea baggers I used to debate all the time. ErikJ Jul 2013 #96

tea baggers dislike gentrication? coulda fooled me. i thought they talked more about how HiPointDem Jul 2013 #98

Clackistan Teabaggers despise everything Portland. They call us all a bunch liberal pinko commies. ErikJ Jul 2013 #102

except i don't hate portland, the max or the pearl district. otherwise, the similarities are HiPointDem Jul 2013 #103

The "creative types" are moving here and like the inner city. Cant stop progress. ErikJ Jul 2013 #106

oh, gag. yeah, the fucking 'creative types'. they're no more creative than anyone else, they HiPointDem Jul 2013 #109

Yeah sure. Advertising is huge in Portland. No creativity needed for that. ErikJ Jul 2013 #110

oh, well now, advertising. yes, by god, the sine non qua of creative endeavor. i didn't know HiPointDem Jul 2013 #111

No, they're not. You can't be 'very integrated' when 3/4 of your population is WHITE & only HiPointDem Jul 2013 #81

They were concentrated in inner NE Portland which is a 5 mile radius area. ErikJ Jul 2013 #84

i'm not assuming anything. i'm saying your little gentrified neighborhoods aren't 'highly HiPointDem Jul 2013 #99

Inner SE no, inner NE yes. ErikJ Jul 2013 #101

non-seq. and when you say 'highly integrated,' what you actually mean is 'transitional'. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #107

So you support and condone large concentrations of poverty in areas ErikJ Jul 2013 #108

lol. i don't live in the burbs. and there are no jobs here, we have 10+% unemployment. so no, HiPointDem Jul 2013 #113

Modern advertising needs highly skilled artistic types. ErikJ Jul 2013 #114

COMPUTERS. Yeah, they make art work so much more SKILLED. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #115

Nothing brings in hard currency quite like a theater group. Dreamer Tatum Jul 2013 #27

+1 leeroysphitz Jul 2013 #40

lol Demo_Chris Jul 2013 #127

ridiculous. who is going to frequent these art galleries & coffee shops? that only works if some HiPointDem Jul 2013 #34

Artists and indy entrepreneurs are the pioneers for urban renewal. ErikJ Jul 2013 #39

That's not how gentrification works. Impoverished artists move into low rent areas... Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #45

Concentrated poverty isnt good for anyone-black or white. Diversity and integration is the result. ErikJ Jul 2013 #48

Bullshit. A forced exodus of poor minorities is the result of gentrification. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #51

Things change my friend. Most inner cities were originally very white and upscale. ErikJ Jul 2013 #53

Things certainly changed in your "diverse" city of Portland. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #54

Tell that to all the middle class blacks living here then. ErikJ Jul 2013 #61

Are you seriously attempting to justify displacing poor minorities... Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #66

in portland ore? it's 6% black, & they aren't all middle class by a long shot. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #70

Nothing changes, my friend. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #59

no, it's not. but the phenomenon you mention doesn't help the resident poor. it just pushes HiPointDem Jul 2013 #58

The warehouses and manufacturers are now located in the burbs and the ErikJ Jul 2013 #63

Are you not comprehending the racist underpinnings of your entire position? Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #67

Its mostly young people who like diversity. And they do NOT want to live in the burbs like their ErikJ Jul 2013 #71

"Young people who like diversity" is code for upwardly mobile, white college students... Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #73

They do here. Lots of blacks and whites living in the inner city. ErikJ Jul 2013 #75

Portland is one of the whitest urban environments in the entire United States. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #76

Inner NE Portland was almost solid African-American for a long time. ErikJ Jul 2013 #80

what crap. you moved to portland 2 minutes ago. you don't know anything about it, as you HiPointDem Jul 2013 #86

Moved to Portland in '86 when they just finished the 1st MAX lightrail run. ErikJ Jul 2013 #88

bad reputation -- compared to what? bellevue WA? HiPointDem Jul 2013 #90

You keep talking about "hip" college students. What you're talking about is white people... Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #120

Portland is 6% black & 32% of them qualify for food stamps; 40% of those over 16 are not in the HiPointDem Jul 2013 #77

baloney. the warehouses and manufacturers are gone, period. that's why they were boarded up. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #68

not the same situation. you're thinking of places like nyc in the 70s-80s, where aspiring arty HiPointDem Jul 2013 #47

Ever heard of Motown and White Stripes and dozens of other bands. ErikJ Jul 2013 #49

i heard of motown when it actually existed. and detroit was a thriving city with a strong HiPointDem Jul 2013 #52

High density housing and govt help ErikJ Jul 2013 #57

So what? Money. What's the big fucking surprise? Money does wonders. high density, low HiPointDem Jul 2013 #60

Ever heard of property taxes? That area makes the city tens of millions in property tax revenue. ErikJ Jul 2013 #69

Portland in the 70s was dying? Are you fucking for real? It was in no way dying. I'm a native HiPointDem Jul 2013 #72

From what I've read, the 70's Portland was lets say, very gritty. ErikJ Jul 2013 #87

'from what i've read'. what you've read is crap. portland & seattle were roughly comparable in the HiPointDem Jul 2013 #89

There were miles of boarded up streets along Alberta and Mississippi alone. ErikJ Jul 2013 #93

whatever you say, mr transplant. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #97

7. Robocop thelordofhell Jul 2013 #8

combine 1 - 5 Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #10

jobs. duh. it's always about jobs, and jobs is apparently the one 'crazy' idea the ruling class HiPointDem Jul 2013 #15

Got an idea of how to create those jobs??? missingthebigdog Jul 2013 #121

'attract companies' = lol. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #122

I guess I don't understand what is funny. missingthebigdog Jul 2013 #125

Well I get it. PETRUS Jul 2013 #128

+1 Cal Carpenter Jul 2013 #129

Get a mayor that knows what hell he/she is doing... Tx4obama Jul 2013 #16

Declare Detroit a national park, and its citizens an endangered species. Agnosticsherbet Jul 2013 #24

Let squatters fix up the places and call them home! phillysquatter Jul 2013 #31

Might be a very good investment. I know a guy who made a million that way. ErikJ Jul 2013 #64

apparently you don't know what a squatter is either. So typical of the 'creative' class. They HiPointDem Jul 2013 #119

Build a double wall around it with guards and security monitoring systems itsrobert Jul 2013 #56

The Washington Post is now publishing flippant crap like this instead of serious ideas. Nice to know pa28 Jul 2013 #65

+100. the leadership of the funny folks at the wapo are the same class of people who created HiPointDem Jul 2013 #118

I too was pretty taken aback at the tone of the piece, aside from the utter HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #123

90% of the replies to this post exhibit no understanding of Detroit's situation whatsoever... brooklynite Jul 2013 #95

Detroit needs a huge federal "Marshal Plan" of urban renewal. ErikJ Jul 2013 #104

George Marshall looks like a friggin' giant compared to the pygmies HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #124

Okaaaay. n/t pa28 Jul 2013 #116

My guess is Politicalboi Jul 2013 #105

#7: More guys like the one who enjoys having sex with cars. Warren DeMontague Jul 2013 #126