Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

hueymahl

(2,904 posts)
65. Not sure what you are trying to prove . . .
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 10:59 AM
Jul 2013

but asking for a constitutional, law based argument on a political board (as opposed to a scholarly legal board) is kind of like asking fans at a football game to do calculus. Yes, some of them can do it, but it really is not the time or the place. I suspect that the purpose of the request is to deflect the attention away from our president by basically arguing that, yes it is legal, but ignoring the discussion of whether it is right or wrong.

All that said, maybe you truly are looking for a reasoned and informed dialog about the relative constitutional merits of Branzburg v. Hayes, 408 U.S. 665 (1972), a controversial 5-4 decision which created as many questions as it answered. And you are in luck, as I happen to be an attorney with a profound interest and respect for our constitution, and thus particularly well suited to have the type of discussion you appear to be seeking.

So, to answer your first question (not really a question, but you did use a question mark) "I can't wait to read the constitutional argument that puts Miller in jail but frees Risen?", I have to look no further than to quote one of the 4 dissents, this one joined by that right-wing nut job justice, Thurgood Marshall :


The Court's crabbed view of the First Amendment reflect a disturbing insensitivity to the critical role of an independent press in our society. The question whether a reporter has a constitutional right to a confidential relationship with his source is of first impression here, but the principles that should guide our decision are as basic as any to be found in the Constitution. While MR. JUSTICE POWELL's enigmatic concurring opinion gives some hope of a more flexible view in the future, the Court in these cases holds that a newsman has no First Amendment right to protect his sources when called before a grand jury. The Court thus invites state and federal authorities to undermine the historic independence of the press by attempting to annex the journalistic profession as an investigative arm of government. Not only will this decision impair performance of the press' constitutionally protected functions, but it will, I am convinced, in the long run harm, rather than help, the administration of justice.
I respectfully dissent.

I
The reporter's constitutional right to a confidential relationship with his source stem from the broad societal interest in a full and free flow of information to the public. It is this basic concern that underlie the Constitution's
Page 408 U. S. 726
protection of a free press, Grosjean v. American Press Co., 297 U. S. 233, 297 U. S. 250; New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, 376 U. S. 254, 376 U. S. 269, [Footnote 3/1] because the guarantee is "not for the benefit of the press so much as for the benefit of all of us." Time, Inc. v. Hill, 385 U. S. 374, 385 U. S. 389. [Footnote 3/2] Enlightened choice by an informed citizenry is the basic ideal upon which an open society is premised, [Footnote 3/3] and a free press is thus indispensable to a free society. Not only does the press enhance personal self-fulfillment
Page 408 U. S. 727
by providing the people with the widest possible range of fact and opinion, but it also is an incontestable precondition of self-government. The press
"has been a mighty catalyst in awakening public interest in governmental affairs, exposing corruption among public officers and employees and generally informing the citizenry of public events and occurrences. . . ."
Estes v. Texas, 381 U. S. 532, 381 U. S. 539; Mills v. Alabama, 384 U. S. 214, 384 U. S. 219; Grosjean, supra, at 297 U. S. 250. As private and public aggregations of power burgeon in size and the pressures for conformity necessarily mount, there is obviously a continuing need for an independent press to disseminate a robust variety of information and opinion through reportage, investigation, and criticism, if we are to preserve our constitutional tradition of maximizing freedom of choice by encouraging diversity of expression.
A
In keeping with this tradition, we have held that the right to publish is central to the First Amendment and basic to the existence of constitutional democracy. Grosjean, supra, at 297 U. S. 250; New York Times, supra, at 403 U. S. 270.
A corollary of the right to publish must be the right to gather news. The full flow of information to the public protected by the free press guarantee would be severely curtailed if no protection whatever were afforded to the process by which news is assembled and disseminated. We have, therefore, recognized that there is a right to publish without prior governmental approval, Near v. Minnesota, 283 U. S. 697; New York Times Co. v. United States, 403 U. S. 713, a right to distribute information, see, e.g., Lovell v. Griffin, 303 U. S. 444, 303 U. S. 452; Marsh v. Alabama, 326 U. S. 501; Martin v. City of Struthers, 319 U. S. 141; Grosjean, supra, and a right to receive printed matter, Lamont v. Postmaster General, 381 U. S. 301.
Page 408 U. S. 728
No less important to the news dissemination process is the gathering of information. News must not be unnecessarily cut off at its source, for without freedom to acquire information, the right to publish would be impermissibly compromised. Accordingly, a right to gather news, of some dimensions, must exist. Zemel v. Rusk, 381 U. S. 1. [Footnote 3/4] Note, The Right of the Press to Gather Information, 71 Col.L.Rev. 838 (1971). As Madison wrote: "A popular Government without popular information or the means of acquiring it is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy, or perhaps both." 9 Writings of James Madison 103 (G. Hunt ed.1910).
B
The right to gather news implies, in turn, a right to a confidential relationship between a reporter and his source. This proposition follows as a matter of simple logic once three factual predicates are recognized: (1) newsmen require informants to gather news; (2) confidentiality -- the promise or understanding that names or certain aspects of communications will be kept off the record -- is essential to the creation and maintenance of a newsgathering relationship with informants; and (3) an unbridled subpoena power -- the absence of a constitutional right protecting, in any way, a confidential relationship from compulsory process -- will either deter source from divulging information or deter reporters from gathering and publishing information.
Page 408 U. S. 729
It is obvious that informants are necessary to the news-gathering process as we know it today. If it is to perform its constitutional mission, the press must do far more than merely print public statements or publish prepared handouts. Familiarity with the people and circumstances involved in the myriad background activities that result in the final product called "news" is vital to complete and responsible journalism, unless the press is to be a captive mouthpiece of "newsmakers." [Footnote 3/5]
It is equally obvious that the promise of confidentiality may be a necessary prerequisite to a productive relationship between a newsman and his informants. An officeholder may fear his superior; a member of the bureaucracy, his associates; a dissident, the scorn of majority opinion. All may have information valuable to the public discourse, yet each may be willing to relate that information only in confidence to a reporter whom he trusts, either because of excessive caution or because of a reasonable fear of reprisals or censure for unorthodox
Page 408 U. S. 730
views. The First Amendment concern must not be with the motives of any particular news source, but rather with the conditions in which informants of all shades of the spectrum may make information available through the press to the public. Cf. Talley v. California, 362 U. S. 60, 362 U. S. 65; Bates v. Little Rock, 361 U. S. 516; NAACP v. Alabama, 357 U. S. 449. [Footnote 3/6]


So, there is my answer to your constitutional question. The section in bold above, is really the core of the argument. The rest is just finding statutory, constitutional and precedent to support it (with the rest of the dissent, not quoted, pretty much eviscerating the majority's argument, in my opinion).

I look forward to an equally informed response. To help you in your response, here is a link to the entire decision: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/408/665/case.html

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Just tidying up MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #1
This has been the law since 1972. It's what put Judith Miller in the can. msanthrope Jul 2013 #7
Perhaps you can furnish us with a graph of MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #9
Again..what's the constitutional argument you would make that puts Judith msanthrope Jul 2013 #11
What compels this President to prosecute more reporters than all other modern Presidents combined? MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #25
A subpeona is not a prosecution, and it's hyperbole to suggest so. msanthrope Jul 2013 #29
Perhaps you can furnish us with the graph of press prosecutions/year. I like graphs. eom Blanks Jul 2013 #17
I like graphs, too!!! nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #24
I couldn't find any graphs, but here is an explanation. Blanks Jul 2013 #49
That's funny. woo me with science Jul 2013 #77
That dodge was so big it must have snooper2 Jul 2013 #60
Not sure what you are trying to prove . . . hueymahl Jul 2013 #65
Wow...and awesome response it was too. zeemike Jul 2013 #70
I agree. bvar22 Jul 2013 #74
First, welcome to DU. Lots of us can do calculus. msanthrope Jul 2013 #71
Thanks for the welcome hueymahl Jul 2013 #81
That's a lot of throat clearing and a lack of analysis of the 5th amendment msanthrope Jul 2013 #95
I honestly am not sure how to respond to that comment hueymahl Jul 2013 #103
Huey--I can tell that you are not a criminal defense attorney. msanthrope Jul 2013 #104
Maybe we are talking past each other hueymahl Jul 2013 #105
We aren't talking past each other. You simply refuse to address the Branzburg msanthrope Jul 2013 #108
Ok, that helps me understand where you are coming from hueymahl Jul 2013 #109
If you don't reargue the decision, you never get it overturned. So yeah..you start with Branzenburg msanthrope Jul 2013 #112
Thank you hueymahl Jul 2013 #113
Excellent response! Le Taz Hot Jul 2013 #87
Huey, that was superb... Oilwellian Jul 2013 #101
PLUS ONE! nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #107
Nothing surprises me anymore newfie11 Jul 2013 #2
You are being mislead. Whisp Jul 2013 #15
How do you know it is not YOU who are being "misled"? bvar22 Jul 2013 #75
There are a lot of things wrong. Whisp Jul 2013 #80
And do you join with the others who shout "Racist" at those who believe... bvar22 Jul 2013 #94
I'm not understanding something here. Whisp Jul 2013 #96
No. I believe he was too accommodating to the Racists AFTER the verdict was handed down bvar22 Jul 2013 #97
I thought the speech was excellent. Whisp Jul 2013 #102
He'll just give a speech about the importance of the freedom of the press. The Link Jul 2013 #3
That's the way it works. LuvNewcastle Jul 2013 #6
Nice. Well, Ari did tell people to "Watch what you say." Pholus Jul 2013 #4
Important post. woo me with science Jul 2013 #93
Your OP source is either profoundly ignorant, or thinks his readers are. msanthrope Jul 2013 #5
Freedom of the press and protecting whistleblowers was not on the table geek tragedy Jul 2013 #8
I'm waiting for all the 'civil libertarians' to explain to me why a reporter msanthrope Jul 2013 #10
Obama also created a secret court, don't ya know ... JoePhilly Jul 2013 #12
The Presidential Time Machine has been busy. After going back to Hawaii in 1961 to plant msanthrope Jul 2013 #13
LOL ... I forgot about how Obama's COLA formula prevented increases JoePhilly Jul 2013 #14
You know, I just have to share that thread... msanthrope Jul 2013 #23
YUP ... looks familiar. JoePhilly Jul 2013 #27
Not to mention planting his birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #36
I'm reading this like reporters have immunity to the laws everyone else has to hold to. Whisp Jul 2013 #16
Risen is claiming that he should not have to testify in a criminal proceeding. msanthrope Jul 2013 #21
ok, thanks for clearing that up. Whisp Jul 2013 #40
Nailed it...nt SidDithers Jul 2013 #18
BAM! AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #35
+1 Johonny Jul 2013 #39
+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #52
+1 nt Progressive dog Jul 2013 #58
+1 n/t tammywammy Jul 2013 #62
it is moving to see a Democratic Administration taking the lead in expanding the surveillance state Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #19
From 1972? The SCOTUS ruled in 1972 that a reporter could not evade a criminal subpoena. msanthrope Jul 2013 #22
amen! as long as we can keep prosecuting more and more people under the espenonage act Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #26
So, 8 people = "more and more people" ?? JoePhilly Jul 2013 #30
as long as we are increasing the crackdown we have reason to celebrate Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #31
I love the hyperbole of ... "the surveillance state" ... sounds scary. JoePhilly Jul 2013 #33
well there are some real nuts out there who seem to think we do - like this goofy couple: Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #37
Given what Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson went through, I don't blame them JoePhilly Jul 2013 #55
Mr. Risen isn't being charged with espionage...or anything else. He has msanthrope Jul 2013 #32
as long as they are vigilant in cracking down on leaks of all sorts using whatever mechanisms they Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #34
Mr. Sterling leaked details of our attempts to stop the Iranians from msanthrope Jul 2013 #41
you're right! It's nobodies business excepts the governments and they know what's best Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #43
On this particular point---nuclear interdiction of Iran--I'm going to msanthrope Jul 2013 #46
I'm sure the Iranians were shocked to learn that the U.S. is trying to keep them from getting Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #48
Again..what was the purpose of revealing the details of Operation Merlin? msanthrope Jul 2013 #59
there is a difference between protecting the sources of journalist - and agreeing with the actions Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #61
What about the rights of the accused under the 5th and 6th amendments? msanthrope Jul 2013 #72
if the accused asks the journalist who they revealed informaiton to to come forward - that would be Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #73
But what if the accused isn't the source? nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #79
+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #53
K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #20
link to trevor timm's comments xchrom Jul 2013 #28
Marcy Wheeler??? I'm sure emptywheel, who liveblogged from the Scooter msanthrope Jul 2013 #38
Democratic President+spying= good! republican+spying=bad Safetykitten Jul 2013 #42
BINGO! We have a WINNA! RC Jul 2013 #51
What spying?? This case has to do with a fired CIA employee leaking msanthrope Jul 2013 #66
WRONG and yet another attempted misdirection hueymahl Jul 2013 #68
+1 leftstreet Jul 2013 #90
+1 woo me with science Jul 2013 #92
"...a criminal trial." xtraxritical Jul 2013 #44
After seeing all the hate vented against our remaining Constitutional rights, Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #45
no, I think they are authoritarianisms useful dingbats for free - out of blind partisanship Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #47
^^^this^^^ L0oniX Jul 2013 #50
Odd association, money and power. Octafish Jul 2013 #54
Some must be. limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #56
time stamps Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #63
we know from wikileaks questionseverything Jul 2013 #89
Read the case treestar Jul 2013 #83
Fucking ridiculous. blackspade Jul 2013 #57
Quick! Who wrote that article! Bonobo Jul 2013 #64
This is a COURT CASE treestar Jul 2013 #67
Court upholds existing laws, President is to blame. Progressive dog Jul 2013 #69
Huge K&R, and exactly how important this is to the One Percent woo me with science Jul 2013 #76
Not the only freedom under attack. n/t Skip Intro Jul 2013 #78
Kick. This is important. woo me with science Jul 2013 #82
Sorry, but you lost all credibility jazzimov Jul 2013 #84
Speak for yourself usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #99
It's a cottage industry on DU. randome Jul 2013 #100
Kick. Important. woo me with science Jul 2013 #85
whistleblowers denied bail questionseverything Jul 2013 #86
... questionseverything Jul 2013 #88
Thank you. Ellsberg was released on bond the same day. woo me with science Jul 2013 #91
K&R forestpath Jul 2013 #98
if they can go after journalists and medical marijuana patients why can't they go after liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #106
Any Democrat that approves of the Administration's spying and further disrespect of the constitution AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #110
Obama Further Violates his Oath to Defend the Constitution AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #111
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Obama’s Escalating War on...»Reply #65