Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
24. I believe that your outrage is based on a major misconception on the burden of proof
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 11:38 AM
Jul 2013

Which is contained in this sentence:


Did the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was acting in anything other than self defense? ABSOLUTELY NOT.


It is the prosecution's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman committed the act, which they did without question as the defense conceded that he shot Mr. Martin.

When the defense mounts an affirmative defense, i.e. "I shot him but I had a good reason" then the burden of proof shifts dramatically and it is no longer the prosecution's responsibility as described in boiler plate wiki article



Burden of proof[edit]

Affirmative defenses' burden of proof is on the defendant to prove its allegations either by the preponderance of the evidence or clear and convincing evidence, as opposed to ordinary defenses (claim of right, alibi, infancy, necessity, and (in some jurisdictions, e.g., New York) self-defense (which is an affirmative defense at common law)), for which the prosecutor has the burden of disproving beyond a reasonable doubt.




Now exactly how that burden is split defers from state to state. As I understand it the defense had to prove that Zimmerman had a reasonable fear of death. In this case it gets complicated because we have Mr. Martin's real, and very well founded fear of getting killed which in fact did happen. Zimmerman started a string of actions knowing that he had a gun. I think it is very reasonable for the jury to not accept the defenses' argument that Zimmerman had a real fear because he could have done any of the following:


a) not gotten out of his car
b) not pursued Mr. Martin
c) retreated from Mr. Martin
d) showed his weapon and not shot Mr. Martin.

So your premise on the burden of proof being wrong then your analysis is also faulty and your outrage completely misplaced.

There is every reason to believe that the case of the prosecution met the burden of proof that Zimmerman committed the act and that the various statements of Zimmerman could have been found to be completely self serving and not believable (i.e. he was looking for a street sign in a 3 street complex he was familiar with and walked away from the street to where no sign could possibly be).

I think you should reassess your position based on the fact that the defense had the burden in an affirmative defense and there is reasonable questions as to whether or not they met that burden.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Oh? RobertEarl Jul 2013 #1
you know what? Fuck Zimmerman quinnox Jul 2013 #2
Well said! hrmjustin Jul 2013 #3
thanks quinnox Jul 2013 #5
I HEAR YOU Skittles Jul 2013 #11
OP isn't defending zimmerman. Tunkamerica Jul 2013 #16
Unfortunately there's a lot of simplistic thinking on these sorts of issues mythology Jul 2013 #46
KnR, and good luck trying to be reasonable and analytical around here just now. Hekate Jul 2013 #4
Noted... onpatrol98 Jul 2013 #6
Good post... +1 Pelican Jul 2013 #7
The case was much better than it was presented. DevonRex Jul 2013 #8
I think Corey hamstrung them on race. Much like the OJ trial, msanthrope Jul 2013 #30
That's my take on it, too. And the poor dumb RW Floridians DevonRex Jul 2013 #39
Yeah, I'm not a lawyer and I could have assembled a better proscution case. It was Nay Jul 2013 #34
Oh noes u r disappointed in DU...whaaaaaaaaaaaa Rex Jul 2013 #9
Zimmerman will get his mwrguy Jul 2013 #10
My magic 8-ball is saying... hunter Jul 2013 #12
The one thing I will always remember about you BainsBane Jul 2013 #13
Thank you, very much so. uppityperson Jul 2013 #14
The same "moral authority" that allows you pintobean Jul 2013 #17
You can count 85% of this site in on that BainsBane Jul 2013 #18
Lol. 85% pintobean Jul 2013 #19
Okay, so you think the majority of DUers BainsBane Jul 2013 #21
I didn't ask about anything pintobean Jul 2013 #22
Okay, I stand corrected BainsBane Jul 2013 #23
+1 PotatoChip Jul 2013 #27
Well said, I completely agree... Spazito Jul 2013 #28
and English was her third language Ghost of Tom Joad Jul 2013 #35
Not really. Her family spoke a diferent language before. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #37
+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #38
I said he was obvious trolling and a jury agreed with me. Rex Jul 2013 #40
Was a post hidden? BainsBane Jul 2013 #41
#9 in this thread. Rex Jul 2013 #42
If my best friend was murdered, this is not how I would be acting during the trial: XemaSab Jul 2013 #43
You aren't her BainsBane Jul 2013 #44
Did I say anything about her that wasn't true? XemaSab Jul 2013 #45
Zimmerman shot an unarmed 17 year old... Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #15
How about the racist laws that helped Zman walk, bigots like B37, guns, etc. Hoyt Jul 2013 #20
I believe that your outrage is based on a major misconception on the burden of proof grantcart Jul 2013 #24
You are incorrect on burden of proof Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #25
It is still an affirmative defense. grantcart Jul 2013 #29
Once again, you are wrong Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #32
Your posts on this topic have disappointed me. Marrah_G Jul 2013 #26
That's a thoughtful, articulate and just great post Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #31
Any jury that wasn't predisposed brush Jul 2013 #33
Guess what? Those "legal concepts"? They apply to jurors, as has been posted only about a zillion WinkyDink Jul 2013 #36
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»One last thread before I ...»Reply #24