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hueymahl

(2,904 posts)
109. Ok, that helps me understand where you are coming from
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 12:37 PM
Jul 2013

I'm not intentionally avoiding any issue. I just did not understand that you want to re-argue the reasoning in the Brazenburg case.

So, The Fifth amendment does several things. It provides the protection of a Grand Jury to the accused "No Person shall be held to answer for a captial, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment of indictment of a Grand Jury . . . ." This is an important protection in the scheme of protections we give the accused, and designed to be an impediment to the prosecution.

The majority framed the issue thusly:

The sole issue before us is the obligation of reporters to respond to grand jury subpoenas as other citizens do and to answer questions relevant to an investigation into the commission of crime. Citizens generally are not constitutionally immune from grand jury subpoenas; and neither the First Amendment nor any other constitutional provision protects the average citizen from disclosing to a grand jury information that he has received in confidence. [note 21] The claim is, however, that reporters are exempt from these obligations because if forced to respond to subpoenas and identify their sources or disclose other confidences, their informants will refuse or be reluctant to furnish newsworthy information in the future. This asserted burden on news gathering is said to make compelled testimony from newsmen constitutionally suspect and to require a privileged position for them.


And based on this framing, they held that no, reporters were not exempt from testifying before a grand jury. All of the citing of precedents and legal reasoning basically boiled down to "we think the need to enforce the law trumps any chilling effects the disclosure of a confidential source may have on freedom of the press; plus, it would be a pain in the ass to administer" (my words, not the courts). Here is the quote:

We are unwilling to embark the judiciary on a long and difficult journey to such an uncertain destination. The administration of a constitutional newsman's privilege [704] would present practical and conceptual difficulties of a high order. Sooner or later, it would be necessary to define those categories of newsmen who qualified for the privilege, a questionable procedure in light of the traditional doctrine that liberty of the press is the right of the lonely pamphleteer who uses carbon paper or a mimeograph just as much as of the large metropolitan publisher who utilizes the latest photocomposition methods. Cf. In re Grand Jury Witnesses, 322 F.Supp. 573, 574 (ND Cal. 1970). Freedom of the press is a "fundamental personal right" which "is not confined to newspapers and periodicals. It necessarily embraces pamphlets and leaflets. . . . The press in its historic connotation comprehends every sort of publication which affords a vehicle of information and opinion." Lovell v. Griffin, 303 U.S. 444, 450, 452 (1938). See also Mills [705] v. Alabama, 384 U.S. 214, 219 (1966); Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105, 111 (1943). The informative function asserted by representatives of the organized press in the present cases is also performed by lecturers, political pollsters, novelists, academic researchers, and dramatists. Almost any author may quite accurately assert that he is contributing to the flow of information to the public, that he relies on confidential sources of information, and that these sources will be silenced if he is forced to make disclosures before a grand jury. [note 40]

In each instance where a reporter is subpoenaed to testify, the courts would also be embroiled in preliminary factual and legal determinations with respect to whether the proper predicate had been laid for the reporter's appearance: Is there probable cause to believe a crime has been committed? Is it likely that the reporter has useful information gained in confidence? Could the grand jury obtain the information elsewhere? Is the official interest sufficient to outweigh the claimed privilege?

Thus, in the end, by considering whether enforcement of a particular law served a "compelling" governmental interest, the courts would be inextricably involved in [706] distinguishing between the value of enforcing different criminal laws. By requiring testimony from a reporter in investigations involving some crimes but not in others, they would be making a value judgment that a legislature had declined to make, since in each case the criminal law involved would represent a considered legislative judgment, not constitutionally suspect, of what conduct is liable to criminal prosecution. The task of judges, like other officials outside the legislative branch, is not to make the law but to uphold it in accordance with their oaths.

At the federal level, Congress has freedom to determine whether a statutory newsman's privilege is necessary and desirable and to fashion standards and rules as narrow or broad as deemed necessary to deal with the evil discerned and, equally important, to refashion those rules as experience from time to time may dictate. There is also merit in leaving state legislatures free, within First Amendment limits, to fashion their own standards in light of the conditions and problems with respect to the relations between law enforcement officials and press in their own areas. It goes without saying, of course, that we are powerless to bar state courts from responding in their own way and construing their own constitutions so as to recognize a newsman's privilege, either qualified or absolute.

In addition, there is much force in the pragmatic view that the press has at its disposal powerful mechanisms of communication and is far from helpless to protect itself from harassment or substantial harm. Furthermore, if what the newsmen urged in these cases is true--that law enforcement cannot hope to gain and may suffer from subpoenaing newsmen before grand juries--prosecutors will be loath to risk so much for so little. Thus, at the federal level the Attorney General has already fashioned a set of rules for federal officials in connection [707] with subpoenaing members of the press to testify before grand juries or at criminal trials. [note 41] These rules are a major step in the direction the reporters herein desire to move. They may prove wholly sufficient to resolve the bulk of disagreements and controversies between press and federal officials.

Finally, as we have earlier indicated, news gathering is not without its First Amendment protections, and grand jury investigations if instituted or conducted other than in good faith, would pose wholly different issues for resolution under the First Amendment. [note 42] Official harassment of the press undertaken not for purposes of law enforcement but to disrupt a reporter's relationship [708] with his news sources would have no justification. Grand juries are subject to judicial control and subpoenas to motions to quash. We do not expect courts will forget that grand juries must operate within the limits of the First Amendment as well as the Fifth.


As I have said before, this is a terrible decision, and rests in large part on trust in the executive branch to create a framework and conduct themselves in good faith. Heck, even part of their reasoning was the hope that the framework being developed and the rules being fashioned by the federal officials at the time "prove wholly sufficient to resolve the bulk of disagreements and controversies between press and federal officials."

Justice Douglas in his dissent agrees with me:

The people who govern are often far removed from the cabals that threaten the regime; the people are often remote from the sources of truth even though they live in the city where the forces that would undermine society operate. The function of the press is to explore and investigate events, inform the people what is going on, and to expose the harmful as well as the good influences at work. There is no higher function performed under our constitutional regime. Its performance means that the press is often engaged in projects that bring anxiety or even fear to the bureaucracies, departments, or officials of government. The whole weight of government is therefore often brought to bear against a paper or a reporter.


So do Justices Stewart, Brennan and Marshall:

The crux of the Court's rejection of any newsman's privilege is its observation that only "where news sources themselves are implicated in crime or possess information relevant to the grand jury's task need they or the reporter be concerned about grand jury subpoenas." See ante, at 691 (emphasis supplied). But this is a most misleading construct. For it is obviously not true that the only persons about whom reporters will be forced to testify will be those "confidential informants involved in actual criminal conduct" and those having "information suggesting illegal conduct by others." See ante, at 691, 693. As noted above, given the grand jury's extraordinarily broad investigative powers and the weak standards of relevance and materiality that apply during such inquiries, reporters, if they have no testimonial privilege, will be called to give information about informants who have neither committed crimes nor have information about crime. It is to avoid deterrence of such sources and thus to prevent needless injury to First Amendment values that I think the government must be required to show probable cause that the newsman has information that is clearly relevant to a specific probable violation of criminal law. [note 34] [745]

Similarly, a reporter may have information from a confidential source that is "related" to the commission of crime, but the government may be able to obtain an indictment or otherwise achieve its purposes by subpoenaing persons other than the reporter. It is an obvious but important truism that when government aims have been fully served, there can be no legitimate reason to disrupt a confidential relationship between a reporter and his source. To do so would not aid the administration of justice and would only impair the flow of information to the public. Thus, it is to avoid deterrence of such sources that I think the government must show that there are no alternative means for the grand jury to obtain the information sought.

Both the "probable cause" and "alternative means" requirements would thus serve the vital function of mediating between the public interest in the administration of justice and the constitutional protection of the full flow of information. These requirements would avoid a direct conflict between these competing concerns, and they would generally provide adequate protection for newsmen. See Part III, infra. [note 35] No doubt the courts would be required to make some delicate judgments in working out this accommodation. But that, after all, [746] is the function of courts of law. Better such judgments, however difficult, than the simplistic and stultifying absolutism adopted by the Court in denying any force to the First Amendment in these cases. [note 36]

The error in the Court's absolute rejection of First Amendment interests in these cases seems to me to be most profound. For in the name of advancing the administration of justice, the Court's decision, I think, will only impair the achievement of that goal. People entrusted with law enforcement responsibility, no less than private citizens, need general information relating to controversial social problems. Obviously, press reports have great value to government, even when the newsman cannot be compelled to testify before a grand jury. The sad paradox of the Court's position is that when a grand jury may exercise an unbridled subpoena power, and sources involved in sensitive matters become fearful of disclosing information, the newsman will not only cease to be a useful grand jury witness; he will cease to investigate and publish information about issues of public import. I cannot subscribe to such an anomalous result, for, in my view, the interests protected by the First Amendment are not antagonistic to the administration of justice. Rather, they can, in the long run, only be complementary, and for that reason must be given great "breathing space." NAACP v. Button, 371 U.S., at 433.


I think I have addressed everything you have raised. The last section above directly address the reasoning of the majority that you quoted. Risen published information he believed, as a reporter, that the public should know. Did he form an agreement with his source to "break the law"? Possibly - intent to commit conspiracy can be stretched to virtually any shape, and routinely has been, including very recently when the administration attacked the Faux news reporter. I say it does not matter. The protections of the first amendment are so fundamental to our democracy, that reporters should have blanket immunity to report anything their sources tell them. If the government wants to prosecute a leaker that has broken a valid law, by all means do so. But the reporter should have immunity. Period.


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Just tidying up MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #1
This has been the law since 1972. It's what put Judith Miller in the can. msanthrope Jul 2013 #7
Perhaps you can furnish us with a graph of MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #9
Again..what's the constitutional argument you would make that puts Judith msanthrope Jul 2013 #11
What compels this President to prosecute more reporters than all other modern Presidents combined? MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #25
A subpeona is not a prosecution, and it's hyperbole to suggest so. msanthrope Jul 2013 #29
Perhaps you can furnish us with the graph of press prosecutions/year. I like graphs. eom Blanks Jul 2013 #17
I like graphs, too!!! nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #24
I couldn't find any graphs, but here is an explanation. Blanks Jul 2013 #49
That's funny. woo me with science Jul 2013 #77
That dodge was so big it must have snooper2 Jul 2013 #60
Not sure what you are trying to prove . . . hueymahl Jul 2013 #65
Wow...and awesome response it was too. zeemike Jul 2013 #70
I agree. bvar22 Jul 2013 #74
First, welcome to DU. Lots of us can do calculus. msanthrope Jul 2013 #71
Thanks for the welcome hueymahl Jul 2013 #81
That's a lot of throat clearing and a lack of analysis of the 5th amendment msanthrope Jul 2013 #95
I honestly am not sure how to respond to that comment hueymahl Jul 2013 #103
Huey--I can tell that you are not a criminal defense attorney. msanthrope Jul 2013 #104
Maybe we are talking past each other hueymahl Jul 2013 #105
We aren't talking past each other. You simply refuse to address the Branzburg msanthrope Jul 2013 #108
Ok, that helps me understand where you are coming from hueymahl Jul 2013 #109
If you don't reargue the decision, you never get it overturned. So yeah..you start with Branzenburg msanthrope Jul 2013 #112
Thank you hueymahl Jul 2013 #113
Excellent response! Le Taz Hot Jul 2013 #87
Huey, that was superb... Oilwellian Jul 2013 #101
PLUS ONE! nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #107
Nothing surprises me anymore newfie11 Jul 2013 #2
You are being mislead. Whisp Jul 2013 #15
How do you know it is not YOU who are being "misled"? bvar22 Jul 2013 #75
There are a lot of things wrong. Whisp Jul 2013 #80
And do you join with the others who shout "Racist" at those who believe... bvar22 Jul 2013 #94
I'm not understanding something here. Whisp Jul 2013 #96
No. I believe he was too accommodating to the Racists AFTER the verdict was handed down bvar22 Jul 2013 #97
I thought the speech was excellent. Whisp Jul 2013 #102
He'll just give a speech about the importance of the freedom of the press. The Link Jul 2013 #3
That's the way it works. LuvNewcastle Jul 2013 #6
Nice. Well, Ari did tell people to "Watch what you say." Pholus Jul 2013 #4
Important post. woo me with science Jul 2013 #93
Your OP source is either profoundly ignorant, or thinks his readers are. msanthrope Jul 2013 #5
Freedom of the press and protecting whistleblowers was not on the table geek tragedy Jul 2013 #8
I'm waiting for all the 'civil libertarians' to explain to me why a reporter msanthrope Jul 2013 #10
Obama also created a secret court, don't ya know ... JoePhilly Jul 2013 #12
The Presidential Time Machine has been busy. After going back to Hawaii in 1961 to plant msanthrope Jul 2013 #13
LOL ... I forgot about how Obama's COLA formula prevented increases JoePhilly Jul 2013 #14
You know, I just have to share that thread... msanthrope Jul 2013 #23
YUP ... looks familiar. JoePhilly Jul 2013 #27
Not to mention planting his birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #36
I'm reading this like reporters have immunity to the laws everyone else has to hold to. Whisp Jul 2013 #16
Risen is claiming that he should not have to testify in a criminal proceeding. msanthrope Jul 2013 #21
ok, thanks for clearing that up. Whisp Jul 2013 #40
Nailed it...nt SidDithers Jul 2013 #18
BAM! AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #35
+1 Johonny Jul 2013 #39
+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #52
+1 nt Progressive dog Jul 2013 #58
+1 n/t tammywammy Jul 2013 #62
it is moving to see a Democratic Administration taking the lead in expanding the surveillance state Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #19
From 1972? The SCOTUS ruled in 1972 that a reporter could not evade a criminal subpoena. msanthrope Jul 2013 #22
amen! as long as we can keep prosecuting more and more people under the espenonage act Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #26
So, 8 people = "more and more people" ?? JoePhilly Jul 2013 #30
as long as we are increasing the crackdown we have reason to celebrate Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #31
I love the hyperbole of ... "the surveillance state" ... sounds scary. JoePhilly Jul 2013 #33
well there are some real nuts out there who seem to think we do - like this goofy couple: Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #37
Given what Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson went through, I don't blame them JoePhilly Jul 2013 #55
Mr. Risen isn't being charged with espionage...or anything else. He has msanthrope Jul 2013 #32
as long as they are vigilant in cracking down on leaks of all sorts using whatever mechanisms they Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #34
Mr. Sterling leaked details of our attempts to stop the Iranians from msanthrope Jul 2013 #41
you're right! It's nobodies business excepts the governments and they know what's best Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #43
On this particular point---nuclear interdiction of Iran--I'm going to msanthrope Jul 2013 #46
I'm sure the Iranians were shocked to learn that the U.S. is trying to keep them from getting Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #48
Again..what was the purpose of revealing the details of Operation Merlin? msanthrope Jul 2013 #59
there is a difference between protecting the sources of journalist - and agreeing with the actions Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #61
What about the rights of the accused under the 5th and 6th amendments? msanthrope Jul 2013 #72
if the accused asks the journalist who they revealed informaiton to to come forward - that would be Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #73
But what if the accused isn't the source? nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #79
+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #53
K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #20
link to trevor timm's comments xchrom Jul 2013 #28
Marcy Wheeler??? I'm sure emptywheel, who liveblogged from the Scooter msanthrope Jul 2013 #38
Democratic President+spying= good! republican+spying=bad Safetykitten Jul 2013 #42
BINGO! We have a WINNA! RC Jul 2013 #51
What spying?? This case has to do with a fired CIA employee leaking msanthrope Jul 2013 #66
WRONG and yet another attempted misdirection hueymahl Jul 2013 #68
+1 leftstreet Jul 2013 #90
+1 woo me with science Jul 2013 #92
"...a criminal trial." xtraxritical Jul 2013 #44
After seeing all the hate vented against our remaining Constitutional rights, Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #45
no, I think they are authoritarianisms useful dingbats for free - out of blind partisanship Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #47
^^^this^^^ L0oniX Jul 2013 #50
Odd association, money and power. Octafish Jul 2013 #54
Some must be. limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #56
time stamps Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #63
we know from wikileaks questionseverything Jul 2013 #89
Read the case treestar Jul 2013 #83
Fucking ridiculous. blackspade Jul 2013 #57
Quick! Who wrote that article! Bonobo Jul 2013 #64
This is a COURT CASE treestar Jul 2013 #67
Court upholds existing laws, President is to blame. Progressive dog Jul 2013 #69
Huge K&R, and exactly how important this is to the One Percent woo me with science Jul 2013 #76
Not the only freedom under attack. n/t Skip Intro Jul 2013 #78
Kick. This is important. woo me with science Jul 2013 #82
Sorry, but you lost all credibility jazzimov Jul 2013 #84
Speak for yourself usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #99
It's a cottage industry on DU. randome Jul 2013 #100
Kick. Important. woo me with science Jul 2013 #85
whistleblowers denied bail questionseverything Jul 2013 #86
... questionseverything Jul 2013 #88
Thank you. Ellsberg was released on bond the same day. woo me with science Jul 2013 #91
K&R forestpath Jul 2013 #98
if they can go after journalists and medical marijuana patients why can't they go after liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #106
Any Democrat that approves of the Administration's spying and further disrespect of the constitution AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #110
Obama Further Violates his Oath to Defend the Constitution AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #111
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