General Discussion

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)

106. Sadly I disagree. THE challenge for progressives is to change the system in our country.

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 07:02 PM

Dec 2011

It won't matter a lick if we kick the current crop of Dems out and elect new ones (that need massive amounts of money to win in this country).

Your prescription is simply not possible within the confines of our current system. There is simply no way we can get SIXTY progressive senators in this country, and this should not prevent our country from being able to pass truly progressive legislation that dramatically helps most all of us. Unfortunately that IS currently reality, it is absurd on its face, and it simply must change.

There are several very important things that need to be changed in this country or the next batch of Dems will become compromised by the system before they are even sworn in to office (for the most part).

Our country can not survive much longer if we only have a few people in Congress pursuing legislation that benefits the 99% over the elite. The U.S. will resemble Mexico in its income and wealth distribution sooner than I even thought possible if we don't change the system and soon.

Change the system. This is THE discussion that needs to be focused on. Sure, vote for the Dem, but change the system. If we keep on expecting the current electoral system to bring us the changes that our people need, our people will continue on its downward trajectory. The Great Leveling is rapidly occurring throughout this country.

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Obama IS progressive, and he will most likely be re-elected. Welcome to reality. [View all] RBInMaine Dec 2011 OP

agreed, obama is a progressive BOG PERSON Dec 2011 #1

Indeed. People fail to understand how hard progress is. TheWraith Dec 2011 #18

Exactly! Sometimes progress is measured one inch at a time. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #39

25 years, AND a war. (nt) reACTIONary Dec 2011 #132

tiny increments aren't real progress. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #199

I believe that if the president had the votes to have socialized medicine Kahuna Dec 2011 #222

And there have been progressives in American politics for over 100 years. eom tledford Dec 2011 #247

Using that logic, Republicans are "progressive" too. jtrockville Dec 2011 #2

But we would call him 'regressive' because a ban on gay marriage is the reverse of progress. MH1 Dec 2011 #6

Then just "getting stuff done" can't be considered progress. jtrockville Dec 2011 #16

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #19

Maybe you could try disagreeing with somebody without always questioning their grasp of reality. themadstork Dec 2011 #36

That's a good suggestion themadstork. jtrockville Dec 2011 #59

If that makes me a purist I will be painted with that brush and be proud. Vincardog Dec 2011 #22

Ending DADT wasn't progressive? MH1 Dec 2011 #24

Sure some of his accomplishments were (IMO) progressive. jtrockville Dec 2011 #54

GetEqual & Lt. Dan Choi PRESSURE helped! FunMe Dec 2011 #161

Only he didn't actually end DADT Cherchez la Femme Dec 2011 #236

read this post... fascisthunter Dec 2011 #271

You just destroyed the OP. Nicely done. Zhade Dec 2011 #60

You are dead on right. Here's why. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #122

Really. AlbertCat Dec 2011 #184

+1 Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #194

This message was self-deleted by its author Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #195

+1 n/t wakemewhenitsover Dec 2011 #205

A ban on gay marriage is the current state of things Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #49

Right. Maybe that wasn't such a good example. jtrockville Dec 2011 #69

Really...you see Republicans moving forward? Sheepshank Dec 2011 #100

It's not an "all or nothing" assessment. jtrockville Dec 2011 #129

Let me see if I've got this straight..... Plucketeer Dec 2011 #170

So you are selling the meme that Republicans are progressive? Got it! n/t Sheepshank Dec 2011 #254

Of course that is logic. Progress is not synonymus with Liberal. That's stupid. vaberella Dec 2011 #265

Well, I hope you're right about the reelected part. Denninmi Dec 2011 #3

Yep, thats what I think we will see lots of as well. n/t teddy51 Dec 2011 #9

Conservative: the root of the word means to conserve Angry Dragon Dec 2011 #4

I agree. This business about vetoing something because it does not go far enough would delay progre treestar Dec 2011 #5

Some things need a veto because they go too far TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #105

If they are in such a losing battle, why is it they end up ahead after each contest? quakerboy Dec 2011 #187

That's not reality choie Dec 2011 #7

At least someone is in touch with reality.. kentuck Dec 2011 #14

Hello! Le Taz Hot Dec 2011 #15

+1000000 MissDeeds Dec 2011 #99

Things have gotten progressivly worse for the 99% MannyGoldstein Dec 2011 #8

Please define "Wall St. reform" KeepItReal Dec 2011 #10

You write that as if those are bad things MannyGoldstein Dec 2011 #23

You're right. It's all good. Nothing to see here. KeepItReal Dec 2011 #123

The 2010 Dodd-Frank Bill is the main thing, and it changes quite a bit: bhikkhu Dec 2011 #33

If they have a next go-around with it, they need to add in anti-trust provisions. Selatius Dec 2011 #186

Here's a little graphic that cheers me up: bhikkhu Dec 2011 #188

I wouldn't call market capitalization the same as market share. Selatius Dec 2011 #189

Wow - that's one I hadn't seen bhikkhu Dec 2011 #226

The key is to give him Turbineguy Dec 2011 #11

that worked out so great in 2009! stockholmer Dec 2011 #25

President Obama needs a fillibuster proof majority. bluestate10 Dec 2011 #75

Sadly I disagree. THE challenge for progressives is to change the system in our country. stillwaiting Dec 2011 #106

Who is not tired of hearing that crap? FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #124

That Congress was filibuster proof for only about 60 days if I recall correctly. boxman15 Dec 2011 #178

Agreed. A filibuster proof and real majority of progressive democrats. Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #63

HAHA!!! What a joke!! harmonicon Dec 2011 #89

Great legislation from Pelosi house. The a handfull of blue dogs and Lieberman screwed everything emulatorloo Dec 2011 #97

Oh, BS. They were looking for excuses to cave. harmonicon Dec 2011 #201

You are mistaken. You are thinking of the old movies. emulatorloo Dec 2011 #211

I know, that was my point - this is how it now "works". harmonicon Dec 2011 #221

Pelosi did pull her weight. She passed the Public Option in the House bill, but... Selatius Dec 2011 #185

Well then, as I was saying... harmonicon Dec 2011 #202

You have a basic misunderstanding of how the Senate works emulatorloo Dec 2011 #217

1++++ Dems keep forgetting that about Pelosi and Public Option Health Care patrice Dec 2011 #228

Guess I'm a purist because my opinion is not exactly the same. mmonk Dec 2011 #12

Isn't this post rather . . . self-gratifying? TomClash Dec 2011 #13

Well, gosh, anyone who has reservations about the President's policies is just a big poopyhead, Missy Vixen Dec 2011 #17

Stop rooting for the GOP to win. They have to cheer on their Corporate candidate Vincardog Dec 2011 #20

Your second sentence: Poll_Blind Dec 2011 #28

Nearly 600 recs in favor of OWS... Zhade Dec 2011 #62

Hate to break it to you, OWS support is pretty broad among all DU members emulatorloo Dec 2011 #101

Why would that bother me? Zhade Dec 2011 #114

Funny, I support both the President and the message of OWS... jefferson_dem Dec 2011 #138

Because people can and do support both Democrats and OWS emulatorloo Dec 2011 #147

For some reason, this is a foreign concept for a few people here Number23 Dec 2011 #150

It seems to me that many DU posters worldviews do not acknowledge that Republicans exist emulatorloo Dec 2011 #154

Have you spent any time boots-on-the-ground or virtual with any Occupy? patrice Dec 2011 #230

If Obama is so pro-OWS, then why doesn't he do something about the rampant Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #243

Please tell me EXACTLY what you would have the President of the US do about the police brutality Number23 Dec 2011 #244

First, go on TV and condemn it Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #245

So it's all about the yawn-worthy "bully pulpit." I see Number23 Dec 2011 #246

Well, I did mention Yeltsin getting on top of the tank didn't I? Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #255

You had a list of very specific demands you wanted the president to do Number23 Dec 2011 #256

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #261

LOL Your argument was weak to begin with Number23 Dec 2011 #264

Regardless Of What Happens In 2012... I Will Say This... ChiciB1 Dec 2011 #117

No, no, no... DUTYhead, not poopyhead. Geez. FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #125

Tom, just watch one of the Repuke debates and you will be coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #86

President Bachmann, Willard or Newt? Pssst... jefferson_dem Dec 2011 #139

OMG, I havs serious issues with Obama's governance as anyone who spends any time on this board coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #143

Which is why, though I do not support the president RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #204

Well-put. You've captured my rationale and my sentiments re Obama and OWS coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #209

There have been many of these i_sometimes Dec 2011 #112

Pot kettle. Is your post a THREAT to anyone who speaks their mind? Now we're supposed to shut up? patrice Dec 2011 #229

progress is a 19th century myth that was punctured by the first decades of the 20th BOG PERSON Dec 2011 #21

Wow, someone who agrees with me. harmonicon Dec 2011 #90

In my experience, people who call themselves progressives generally don't believe in imprisoning Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #26

By the end of WWII, FDR had 400,000 people in indefinite military detention bhikkhu Dec 2011 #40

And most people have acknowledged that that was an atrocity Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #46

No - those were German and Italian and Japanese prisoners of war bhikkhu Dec 2011 #64

Your link doesnt work Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #65

Ending torture is a campaign promise kept bhikkhu Dec 2011 #68

And how do you end a war on a tactic (terror)? Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #70

The two named goups that the detention policy applies to are Al-qaeda and the Taliban bhikkhu Dec 2011 #77

I love how you say, "arguing over the definitons of words gets us nowhere" Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #79

Well, as long as OWS isn't an "associated force" with Al-qaeda or the Taliban then bhikkhu Dec 2011 #85

"and it's only made to mean something else by twisting and stretching and reinterpreting the words Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #96

As far as torture - if anyone knows specifically what part of the bill is referred to bhikkhu Dec 2011 #78

Semantic games. The war is with al Qaeda. Bin Laden was not a tactic. emulatorloo Dec 2011 #148

If the war is only with Al Queda, then why did we invade Iraq? Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #156

Ask Bush and Frank Luntz emulatorloo Dec 2011 #165

Wait, do you mean to say that unscrupulous politicians can hijack something Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #193

You're putting words in my mouth emulatorloo Dec 2011 #210

Don't take too long, the constitution needs your help. n/t Downtown Hound Dec 2011 #240

Um, yes, people generally see the act of indefinitely detaining anyone without a trial as bad fascisthunter Dec 2011 #272

The point was - that's done in every war bhikkhu Dec 2011 #273

no, post makes this reply moot fascisthunter Dec 2011 #274

But they were all(or pretty much all)treated as prisoners as war, Ken Burch Dec 2011 #198

Obama is not progressive. Rid your head of this inaccurate notion DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2011 #27

Get a dictionary and review the meaning of "progress". Then find your local planetl. RBInMaine Dec 2011 #32

I am pretty sure that both myself and the first poster are well aware of the truedelphi Dec 2011 #113

My, my, RB, you have a nasty streak. You must hate the prefessional left. MrTriumph Dec 2011 #220

Well, under his administration we have seen "progress" on virtually all the issues... jefferson_dem Dec 2011 #140

Excellent post. Peregrine Took Dec 2011 #232

What a charming, condescending post. nt Union Scribe Dec 2011 #29

I suppose you prefer the incessant Obama-bashing posts? That's ok, but not posts which challenge RBInMaine Dec 2011 #37

Again, what a charmer. I hope you don't talk to the voters like that. Union Scribe Dec 2011 #45

Maine has two Republican Senators Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #51

then i guess he is talking to people in real life....too bad for our side SwampG8r Dec 2011 #162

This reality you speak of was created by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Zorra Dec 2011 #30

I associate the label prgressive with a specific platform, themadstork Dec 2011 #31

And tell me just how you are going to get your purist platform PASSED into law????? RBInMaine Dec 2011 #38

I said it was a platform. themadstork Dec 2011 #48

Man, the Obama-uber-alles folks seem really angry. Zhade Dec 2011 #66

they expected a purge here on du3 and are unhappy not to get it SwampG8r Dec 2011 #163

I think that may be in part true. erodriguez Dec 2011 #275

In the real world, a progressive would not choose Timothy Geithner as Treasury Secretary jpgray Dec 2011 #34

It's like you're saying you can't be "progressive" if you disagree with a SINGLE thing considered RBInMaine Dec 2011 #42

Actually, that is not what I'm saying. What is progressive about Geithner? jpgray Dec 2011 #47

What could Geithner do that is outside the law? treestar Dec 2011 #92

In what ways do you believe Timothy Geithner is "ultra liberal"??? Or was your reply a NONANSWER bettyellen Dec 2011 #216

Please check out FDR's first two picks. pnorman Dec 2011 #72

Progress is my definition of Progressive too lunatica Dec 2011 #35

I think the appropriate question to ask is ... frazzled Dec 2011 #41

THANKS ! I have made the very same points. THANK YOU ! RBInMaine Dec 2011 #44

One thing I can say about John McCain is that the man definitely does NOT endorse torture. erodriguez Dec 2011 #276

k&r... spanone Dec 2011 #43

I will disagree with you on one thing Hutzpa Dec 2011 #50

LOL! At best this president governs from the center right of the political spectrum. MadHound Dec 2011 #52

If you put him next to the clown circus sarcasmo Dec 2011 #53

And "Better than a Clown" will even fit on a bumper sticker! Perfect. canoeist52 Dec 2011 #203

What you said jpak Dec 2011 #55

In a poltiical cultrue where Fox News is agenda setting media - Obama is relatively progressive Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #56

I've often made this point....... socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #135

Reelected? Most likely. Progressive? HA! Zhade Dec 2011 #57

Probably the best we can do again. Not much of a progressive, really. Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #58

That depends on your perspective. bvar22 Dec 2011 #61

From this guy's perspective, he's a progressive progressoid Dec 2011 #76

I agree. bvar22 Dec 2011 #84

what I don't get is, ANY system that benefits the top 10% MOST is a FAILED SYSTEM StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #155

If you want to change this country don't start from the top and work down LynneSin Dec 2011 #67

*GASP* A long term thinker! boxman15 Dec 2011 #180

He may be "progressive" but he's no liberal. SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #71

YOU!. Aren't the type that would move to a better country, if only you could afford a plane bluestate10 Dec 2011 #73

Yep, just like Bernie Sanders or Paul Wellstone or Cornell West or Noam Chomsky or ... progressoid Dec 2011 #74

Progressive?? Not in any sense of the word AnOhioan Dec 2011 #80

Defining a political platform by the literal definition of the root word is blatantly dishonest. Edweird Dec 2011 #81

Progress does not exist in a capitalistic system. nt Modern_Matthew Dec 2011 #82

We've come to this? jimlup Dec 2011 #83

what a change of pace hfojvt Dec 2011 #87

I'm so glad he is where he's at. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #88

Newt Gingrich calls himself a "Progressive Conservative" Aerows Dec 2011 #91

If you truly think Obama is a "progressive" then I suggest the reality that needs to be adjusted quinnox Dec 2011 #93

Because it couldn't possibly be that you, for example, are wrong? Yes? Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #116

Read some of the other posts quinnox Dec 2011 #119

I agree with your last point, certainly. Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #120

Which reminds me. Puglover Dec 2011 #94

I would offer that the OP is silly and only persuasive to simpletons and the weak minded Vinnie From Indy Dec 2011 #95

Nice characteriszation of a large diverse crowd you know nothing about.... Sheepshank Dec 2011 #107

no really he is right SwampG8r Dec 2011 #168

ok i gotta say duzy here SwampG8r Dec 2011 #167

Thanks elleng Dec 2011 #98

OH NOES! hootinholler Dec 2011 #102

The word "progressive" has been cheapened Under Dog Dec 2011 #103

Kick and rec proud patriot Dec 2011 #104

Obama is a center right moderate. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #108

agree...of course i`m old enough to remember when madrchsod Dec 2011 #118

When I researched his voting record during the primary, seemed to me he was slightly left of center emulatorloo Dec 2011 #152

Left of center? Under Dog Dec 2011 #171

If we can call Obama a progressive based on the root word progress, then lets apply other root words Bjorn Against Dec 2011 #109

Obama will most likely be re-elected, but he is NOT progressive. Laelth Dec 2011 #110

Bernie Sanders is a progressive AmericaIsGreat Dec 2011 #111

Obama Has A (D) Beside His Name... ChiciB1 Dec 2011 #121

I had my doubts, but since YOU think so SaintPete Dec 2011 #115

Bravo! Thank you! Aristus Dec 2011 #126

He is in no way a progressive - maybe his speeches are, but his actions are not slay Dec 2011 #127

Your opinion is not reality. Sorry. blackspade Dec 2011 #128

Yep! Scurrilous Dec 2011 #130

Good post jaysunb Dec 2011 #131

+1 ellisonz Dec 2011 #192

This post is why I am worried about the current "Left" ! DaDeacon Dec 2011 #133

Partial List of Progressive Achievements by The Obama Administration Tx4obama Dec 2011 #134

Good post. jefferson_dem Dec 2011 #136

Yep. Yup. Spot on. Right on. Damn straight ... 66 dmhlt Dec 2011 #137

Obama is a right of center fraud and humbug arendt Dec 2011 #141

Stopped reading after #1 BklnDem75 Dec 2011 #190

Yeah, the facts are a bother to delusional people. n/t arendt Dec 2011 #213

Nah... BklnDem75 Dec 2011 #253

shit, i was just hoping for someone who believes in global warming and got certainot Dec 2011 #142

REALITY is that he is that he is 100% better than the alternative Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #144

no. Obama is a Moderate. PatrynXX Dec 2011 #145

why do you say that like it's a bad thing? StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #146

He will be reelected but I won't call him a progressive. Burgman Dec 2011 #149

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #151

I agree that we'll discover one or the other is true caseymoz Dec 2011 #153

Face it: Obama is the best we are going to get Taverner Dec 2011 #157

Talking to people like that isn't helpful Ken Burch Dec 2011 #172

But that's the way it is. I'm all for an honest assesment. Taverner Dec 2011 #179

+1 n/t Politicub Dec 2011 #158

We need to form "The Progressive Party".... Hulk Dec 2011 #159

Your title line seems to advocate a 3rd party, but on reading your post see a point. We already have pinto Dec 2011 #166

Denial FunMe Dec 2011 #160

War is peace. Up is down. Incarceration is Freedom. Obama is progressive. nt bertman Dec 2011 #164

Bumper stickers don't make policy. Being involved in the process does, as well as we can. pinto Dec 2011 #169

Why do you think it's a good idea to sneer at people you disagree with in your OP? Ken Burch Dec 2011 #173

+1 n/t New7up Dec 2011 #176

I think those "fixated with silencing dissent" are the ruin of this party. They are too proud to bettyellen Dec 2011 #235

No, he's not a progressive. JoeyT Dec 2011 #174

+1 k&r phasma ex machina Dec 2011 #175

I do not doubt that he is a progressive bluestateguy Dec 2011 #177

For some of the PL, President Obama will never be progressive enough BlueCaliDem Dec 2011 #181

Yes, he managed to get Mitt Romney and Bob Dole's health care plan enacted at a Fed. Level, although Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #182

He will most likely be re-elected, but I beg to differ that he is a progressive... MrMickeysMom Dec 2011 #183

History will consider Obama to be a progressive. scheming daemons Dec 2011 #191

+1 great white snark Dec 2011 #241

Yes, Obama is a progressive, scubadude Dec 2011 #196

Been saying that for a while. Rex Dec 2011 #197

Nobody here deserved the contemptuous tone of that OP. Ken Burch Dec 2011 #200

Love the post as is so true & on top of those things I truly believe & wonder how bad it would have EV_Ares Dec 2011 #206

You're half right. RUMMYisFROSTED Dec 2011 #207

Well then, Hanks Dec 2011 #208

Don't worry about it raouldukelives Dec 2011 #212

he's progressive my ass... he's to the right of Ronald Reagan fascisthunter Dec 2011 #214

LOL n/t Scurrilous Dec 2011 #219

Yep, that's fine tavalon Dec 2011 #215

you use the inocorrect sense of the word Progressive only to belittle the more liberal posters here. bettyellen Dec 2011 #218

It's just another divisive post. Ho hum. Vinca Dec 2011 #223

Uh, yeah, Dj13Francis Dec 2011 #224

The Problem is that those of us who are paying attention KNOW... bvar22 Dec 2011 #225

A true progressive never bargains away the greatest gems before the fight even begins, sorry, he's a mother earth Dec 2011 #227

a lot of those gems were already bargained away when Americans decided it was okay for certainot Dec 2011 #237

and OPs like this want to squash any response from the left.... bettyellen Dec 2011 #239

IMO it is impossible to evaluate obama as long as the 'left' ignores talk radio certainot Dec 2011 #242

Come on, we've had our share of talk radio hosts, and perhaps it does not match hate radio, but it mother earth Dec 2011 #250

the left ignores the radio and lets it kick their ass, and then they blame their reps and plays certainot Dec 2011 #257

I think, more often than not, people know better, and actually choose to be ignorant or believe the mother earth Dec 2011 #258

i just want to point out a couple of factors. certainot Dec 2011 #260

If not Limbaugh, someone else, there's a market for it, our media has been bought and mother earth Dec 2011 #262

i agree the hatred and ignorance is a main motivator, but that's always been there. misinforming and certainot Dec 2011 #269

I do agree their attacks need to be addressed by those being attacked, in no uncertain terms, hit mother earth Dec 2011 #270

i never would have thought a silver spooned nat guard deserter would be president. your confidence certainot Dec 2011 #231

1++++++++++ Rejecting KERRY (for god's sake!!) was a CLEAR hallmark of their pathologies. patrice Dec 2011 #233

to me the swiftboating of kerry and the selling of bush so he was even close was one of many example certainot Dec 2011 #238

TPTB own the media, you are probably right. We are prepared early on. We are told what to expect. mother earth Dec 2011 #251

You are right, we really exercise amnesia on the "sanctity" of our vote, let's not forget the Gore mother earth Dec 2011 #234

Obama is no progressive, THAT'S reality. But you are correct NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #248

Yes he is boomerbust Dec 2011 #249

No and yes, respectively. Donald Ian Rankin Dec 2011 #252

Great post but it won't stop the JNelson6563 Dec 2011 #259

He probably will be re-elected (so were nixon, reagan and bush) but he is NOT progressive bowens43 Dec 2011 #263

obama is not a progressive nor very liberal on fiscal issues. he may well be re-elected (i hope) La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #266

This message was self-deleted by its author shanti Dec 2011 #267

As others have said, a progressive he is not deutsey Dec 2011 #268

Not a progressive. ozone_man Dec 2011 #277