General Discussion

riqster

(13,986 posts)

20. The Rules of Engagement under SYG laws are nebulous.

Wed Jul 24, 2013, 10:01 AM

Jul 2013

And that is the crux of the problem. They frequently reference "feelings" or "perceptions" rather than defined physical acts and situations.

By contrast, the castle doctrine is far more precise: if someone breaks into your home, you are allowed to use deadly force to protect yourself. That is a clear and defined ROE - specific physical boundary crossed, deadly force permitted. SYG laws are not nearly so precise.

The made-up scenario is not in fact made-up: it happened countless times in the Old West. And under SYG, it can happen again.

Competent, trained professionals who carry weapons (like soldiers, cops, etc.) have carefully-defined ROE. Civilians (who have less training and usually less skill) need even MORE precise ROE, not less. But SYG makes these rules amorphous.

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�Stand Your Ground� Has Got to F***ing Go. [View all] riqster Jul 2013 OP

good article smallcat88 Jul 2013 #1

Good point! riqster Jul 2013 #2

Trayvon Martin would of went to jail NoOneMan Jul 2013 #3

The Rude Pundit pointed out the racial disparity riqster Jul 2013 #6

The facts show otherwise. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #22

Facts and Hyperbole don't play well together. GlashFordan Jul 2013 #30

Oh another 'emotional' charge ala Rush Limbaugh Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #32

or easier to look at twisted data to look at facts...PS...the posters data is twisted. uponit7771 Jul 2013 #37

How, precisely? Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #55

Because you're showing a small subset vs the LARGER ones.. link inside uponit7771 Jul 2013 #59

Thank you very much for the reply! Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #60

Trayvon Martin wouldn't have made it to jail csziggy Jul 2013 #31

Why didn't that happen to the 12 other blacks who killed whites... GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #35

So you think there's NO disparity?! NONE at all? You live in the US?! regards uponit7771 Jul 2013 #38

Look at the numbers. Blacks use SYG too. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #61

The number of whites allowed to claim self far far out number those of blacks by the hundreds of % uponit7771 Jul 2013 #66

There are many more White people than Black people. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #72

Talking about the PBS study, not it's offshoots uponit7771 Jul 2013 #86

I normally dont agree with you on other issues darkangel218 Jul 2013 #4

Agreement is a good thing. riqster Jul 2013 #5

Count me a second one Aerows Jul 2013 #8

People of good will can disagree riqster Jul 2013 #10

Agreed :) Aerows Jul 2013 #11

protest ALEC in chicago aug 8. ALEC = author of syg. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #7

They and the NRA. nt riqster Jul 2013 #9

Excellent. ALEC has got to go, too. Their involvement with the private prison DevonRex Jul 2013 #12

*yawn* krispos42 Jul 2013 #13

Stop bringing troublesome facts into emotional rants! Lurks Often Jul 2013 #14

The jury instructions included SYG. riqster Jul 2013 #15

You mean that both Martin and Zimmerman had the right to be there? n/t krispos42 Jul 2013 #16

No, the judge specifically referenced SYG. nt riqster Jul 2013 #17

The judge did. krispos42 Jul 2013 #40

The jury got the instructions they needed to acquit and they were SYG instructions. mountain grammy Jul 2013 #21

Not true. The 2005 SYG law changed Florida's definition of self-defense. Hoyt Jul 2013 #27

You'd think that the gun nutters would have given up on that lie by now. EOTE Jul 2013 #34

Duty to be raped. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2013 #18

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #39

Don't you have to be physically assaulted before SYG can kick in? joeglow3 Jul 2013 #19

The Rules of Engagement under SYG laws are nebulous. riqster Jul 2013 #20

Do you have an example of a properly designed civillian ROE? nt rrneck Jul 2013 #23

As said already riqster Jul 2013 #29

So rrneck Jul 2013 #33

That's the point, innit? riqster Jul 2013 #36

I don't see an ROE there. rrneck Jul 2013 #41

As I said, that is the point. Where there are no such boundaries, no ROE is possible. riqster Jul 2013 #42

I updated the previous post. rrneck Jul 2013 #43

By electing democrats, for one thing. riqster Jul 2013 #44

Well, rrneck Jul 2013 #49

Not hardly. I am talking about repealing SYG, not CCW. riqster Jul 2013 #51

The laws that existed before SYG rrneck Jul 2013 #52

With respect, that is not the case. riqster Jul 2013 #54

Required? rrneck Jul 2013 #58

So the right to self defense is only for government "professionals"? Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #45

Weaken it? Not a bit of it. riqster Jul 2013 #46

So tell me Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #50

I can answer them all with something you should already know. riqster Jul 2013 #53

I am glad it worked out for you Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #56

Yes, I was backed into the doorway of a closed building. So disengagement was not possible. riqster Jul 2013 #57

The trick to using a gun in self-defense is situational awareness. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #63

Actually, CA has 'stand your ground' without a codified law as such. X_Digger Jul 2013 #64

SYG is not recent at all. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #62

Please provide documentation of this claim. riqster Jul 2013 #65

Runyon v. State (Indiana, 1877) X_Digger Jul 2013 #67

That is different from the new, ALEC-based SYG. riqster Jul 2013 #69

You are mistaken. The standard in all such laws is the 'reasonable person'. X_Digger Jul 2013 #71

Actually, it is you that are mistaken. riqster Jul 2013 #75

California does not have a law with that title, but all juries in homicide cases that assert SD X_Digger Jul 2013 #76

"Feelings" won't cut it. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #74

OK. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #68

See my reply above. riqster Jul 2013 #70

They aren't any different. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #73

You just contradicted yourself. riqster Jul 2013 #83

Well done. N/T Just Saying Jul 2013 #78

The rules of self-defense still have to be met. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #26

You can RUN, my dear HockeyMom Jul 2013 #79

Sometimes running is good tactics, sometimes it is not. ManiacJoe Jul 2013 #80

Assuming you DON'T have a gun, HockeyMom Jul 2013 #81

Running is not ALWAYS the best option, even when unarmed. ManiacJoe Jul 2013 #82

I can't run. I have a disability. I can walk, but at a moderate pace. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #85

SYG ... napkinz Jul 2013 #24

what SYG really stands for ... napkinz Jul 2013 #25

There not only is a racial divide in this county, HockeyMom Jul 2013 #84

Recced. nt livingwagenow Jul 2013 #28

K & R Scurrilous Jul 2013 #47

kr HiPointDem Jul 2013 #48

I agree. The SYG law needs to go. Apophis Jul 2013 #77