Proud Member Of "The Glenn Greenwald Left" Here.

[grantcart]

275. So you don't think that an OP that is titled: Proud Member Of "The Glenn Greenwald Left" Here

is an OP that doesn't imply that he has a heroic standing?


It is the OP that tied the metric for credibility in a person as

Right Versus Wrong is my barometer for who has credibility and who doesn't.

Greenwald didn't get it wrong on the question of the Walla Walla City Council but on the most important question before Congress to date in the 21st Century

So using the OPs metric I would find GG didn't do very well. Beyond that GG continued to see no difference between the two parties in the last two elections and is a major Paul apologist, although he likes to wave away Paul's "unfortunate past baggage" with the same light stroke that he excuses his own.

Those that have strong feelings for Greenwald or Assange (either for or against) are the ones that are practicing "dichotomized thinking". If you are such a strong supporter of Greenwald then that would apply to you, not me. You have misinterpreted my entire argument in assuming that I am a Greenwald hater, which would be a black and white viewpoint. For me I take the most clearly articulated NON dichotomized position on Greenwald on DU: that he is neither a hero nor a villain.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023322707

As to the question of civil liberties.

You may get yourself exercised about the use of phone records as an investigative tool. Fine. I am willing to discuss that but before we elevate its importance to the end all of the civil rights record do me one favor: show me one victim who had the federal government knock on his door because of the use of these records. The concern about its potential misuse is fine but in the real world this administration has brought forward a substantial increase in civil rights of real people in the US.

You may not be that connected to immigrant communities in the US but I live and work in them. All of my family are born outside of the US and all of their significant others come from outside of the US. One of my future son in laws is an undocumented worker.

From 2000 to 2008 the Bush administration at various times used ICE to go to Hispanic neighborhoods and pick up thousands of law abiding undocumented workers:

http://revcom.us/a/104/ice-raids-en.html

1200 Immigrants Arrested in Massive ICE Sweep in Los Angeles



At 5:15 a.m. on August 30, Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents converged at a supermarket parking lot in Maywood, California. Armed and wearing bulletproof vests, they looked through a list of the names and addresses of targeted people before descending upon homes and apartment complexes in the neighborhoods where so-called “criminal aliens” live. This was one of many raids that have taken place throughout Southern California in the past two weeks.

In total 1,200 people have been detained in these massive raids, and at least 600 of those arrested have already been deported. ICE boasts that this is the largest operation they have conducted in the U.S. so far. Most of the arrests took place in Los Angeles—with many people also being picked up in Orange County, Riverside, San Bernardino, and Ventura County.

As word spread, shopping centers and neighborhoods that are usually full of life and activity became still. Teachers at ESL schools reported dramatically low attendance. A 19-year-old student from Guatemala told Revolution, “I spent six months in jail in San Antonio because I didn’t have papers when I was 16 years old. They deported me, but I risked it again and came back. Imagine what it feels like to know that you could be grabbed at any moment—I just want to send money to my family. I’m no criminal!”

People in the targeted neighborhoods said that many of the arrests have been made at dawn while people are getting ready to go to work or families are still asleep. Now, people don’t open the door to anyone or talk about the whereabouts of their neighbors to anyone they don’t know.

Immediately after getting control of the government Obama stopped these real civil rights abuses that constituted real "knocks on the door".

He directed ICE to stop deportations of long term undocumented residents that have no criminal ties.

He extended temporary protection status to hundreds of thousands of people. In fact you can't find statistics on it because the President has done it with many different classes. My future son in law, an undocumented worker, carries around a government ID that keeps his civil liberties safe.

Here is an example of just one of his executive orders and how it affects real people and real civil rights:

(CNN) -- Long lines formed at help centers and lawyers' office across America Wednesday as thousands of young, undocumented immigrants began applying for relief from deportation.

They took advantage of one of the biggest immigration policy changes in years. An executive order by President Barack Obama allows those who entered the country illegally as children to remain and work without fear of deportation for at least two years.

A crowd formed at Chicago's Navy Pier Wednesday to get help from immigration lawyers and fill out forms.

. . .
The forms were made available two months after Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said that people who arrived in the United States as children may request consideration of deferred action for a period of two years subject to renewal, and upon approval would be eligible for work authorization.

As many as 1.7 million youths may qualify for the program, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, a project of the Pew Research Center.

Dubbed Consideration of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, the deferral program was created in June under an executive order signed by President Barack Obama

So in my people's eyes you and Greenwald are the hypocrite because you place so much emphasis on a theoretical issue (use of meta data) with no identifiable victims and fail to see the real civil rights protection that the President has extended to 11 million law abiding undocumented workers. Greenwald doesn't take any of these real civil rights protections when he lambasts the Administration and here is the real irony: Apparently Greenwald lives in Brazil because he is denied the right to bring his same sex partner into the US. This is a real civil rights violation. This administration has done more to fight that issue and extend civil rights to same sex couples than any other.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-obama-gay-marriage-benefits-20130627,0,4035740.story

Responding to a question about the same-sex-marriage decisions, Obama said that in the weeks leading up to the court’s decision, he had asked the White House counsel’s office to work with Justice Department lawyers to “comb through every federal statute” to look at the potential effect of striking down the federal law, known as DOMA. The act barred legally married same-sex couples from receiving federal benefits that are otherwise available to married people, such as joint-filing status for income taxes or survivor benefits under Social Security.

They are now moving to extend civil rights to same sex couples in the military

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/15846-pentagon-prepares-to-extend-benefits-to-military-same-sex-couples

“The Department of Defense welcomes the Supreme Court’s decision today on the Defense of Marriage Act,” a statement from Hagel's office read. “The Department will immediately begin the process of implementing the Supreme Court’s decision in consultation with the Department of Justice and other executive branch agencies. The Department of Defense intends to make the same benefits available to all military spouses — regardless of sexual orientation — as soon as possible. That is now the law, and it is the right thing to do.”

I look forward to the day in the near future when same sex couples like Greenwald will be able get visa benefits for their spouses.

Those that have made the NSA meta data issue the be all and end all of the civil rights issue, as you apparently do, are the real hypocrites on civil rights abuses. This President has done more, much much more, on extending legal protection to millions of people living in the US and those that present any matrix that puts the President at the bottom of civil rights advancement is simply ignoring the millions of people going to bed tonight with a concrete executive order that now gives them more rights than they had in 2008. I know that to be true because my family is one of those families.