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In reply to the discussion: What Was Obama HINTING At In HIS Speech? [View all]ProSense
(116,464 posts)55. Krugman on the speech:
Stiglitz, Minsky, and Obama
<..>
I havent commented so far on the presidents economic speech, except to mock the journalists demanding new ideas for a very old-fashioned economic crisis. And as many people have pointed out, there werent any actual policy proposals.
What we got instead was a narrative, which is no small thing, since it was very much not the narrative that has been dominating Washington discourse including Obamas own pronouncements for three and a half years. Gone was the deficit/Grand Bargain obsession; instead, this was about a depressed economy, suffering mainly from inadequate demand, and how to fix it.
<...>
The president came down pretty much for what we might call a Stiglitzian view (although its widely held): debt was driven by rising inequality. The rich were taking an ever-larger share of the pie, but not spending to match, while working Americans took on ever more debt to make ends meet.
Whats the alternative? Minsky: debt exploded because the Great Depression was receding into the mists of forgetfulness, and both lenders and borrowers enabled and encouraged by financial deregulation forgot the dangers of leverage...Im more of a Minskyite than a Stiglitzian, although not 100%; although things like subprime lending were, I believe, mainly about forgetting the past, Elizabeth Warrens old work on bankruptcy pretty clearly shows that at least some families took on excess debt as a result of rising inequality. But Im inherently suspicious of any story that makes economics a morality play in which all bad results come from things you consider bad for other reasons too; making soaring inequality the cause of our macro woes too is a bit too, well, comfortable for us liberals.
- more -
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/stiglitz-minsky-and-obama/
<..>
I havent commented so far on the presidents economic speech, except to mock the journalists demanding new ideas for a very old-fashioned economic crisis. And as many people have pointed out, there werent any actual policy proposals.
What we got instead was a narrative, which is no small thing, since it was very much not the narrative that has been dominating Washington discourse including Obamas own pronouncements for three and a half years. Gone was the deficit/Grand Bargain obsession; instead, this was about a depressed economy, suffering mainly from inadequate demand, and how to fix it.
<...>
The president came down pretty much for what we might call a Stiglitzian view (although its widely held): debt was driven by rising inequality. The rich were taking an ever-larger share of the pie, but not spending to match, while working Americans took on ever more debt to make ends meet.
Whats the alternative? Minsky: debt exploded because the Great Depression was receding into the mists of forgetfulness, and both lenders and borrowers enabled and encouraged by financial deregulation forgot the dangers of leverage...Im more of a Minskyite than a Stiglitzian, although not 100%; although things like subprime lending were, I believe, mainly about forgetting the past, Elizabeth Warrens old work on bankruptcy pretty clearly shows that at least some families took on excess debt as a result of rising inequality. But Im inherently suspicious of any story that makes economics a morality play in which all bad results come from things you consider bad for other reasons too; making soaring inequality the cause of our macro woes too is a bit too, well, comfortable for us liberals.
- more -
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/stiglitz-minsky-and-obama/
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which is SUCH an effective way to persuade us. The one consolation of those suspects doing that...
yurbud
Jul 2013
#67
No, because the talking points seem to be the same. They haven't figured out "persona management"
yurbud
Jul 2013
#75
It occurs to me that sockpuppets would be an excellent way to run up your post count.
bemildred
Jul 2013
#87
Something like that. So long as you don't say anything, just moan or cheer or yell,
bemildred
Jul 2013
#92
I didn't even think they were bots, just lazy shills copying and pasting from a list of talking
yurbud
Jul 2013
#93
When he says things like that my first thought is Social Security I don't like the Chained CPI thing
diabeticman
Jul 2013
#2
It is Obama-Code to general public for "I am not an ideologue Boehner-Teabag"
emulatorloo
Jul 2013
#10
Obviously he's still going after Social Security - and probably other programs
forestpath
Jul 2013
#4
How About No Tax of Any Kind on incomes below $30K + 100% rent/mortgage deduction to $1K/mo?
HumansAndResources
Jul 2013
#81
Called it yesterday. I knew the blogosphere would find one little tidbit
AllINeedIsCoffee
Jul 2013
#7
He's saying, "Prepare to be screwed. Now just sit back and enjoy my soaring rhetoric
MotherPetrie
Jul 2013
#13
When he pushes for 'real' equality among the classes, I might believe what he is saying....
dmosh42
Jul 2013
#20
that just means that both rich and poor alike shall be forbidden to sleep under bridges
MisterP
Jul 2013
#86
The Justice Department can't "ignore completely a federal law that's on the books"
Maedhros
Jul 2013
#45
That's coming. Then he'll be a bad guy for booting all those heroes out on their asses.
MADem
Jul 2013
#76
Oh goodie, a guessing game. Where the most over-the-top guess wins a prize.
KittyWampus
Jul 2013
#42
Medicare fraud is at the top of the list. I, myself, have been a victim. The system's broken. Period
judesedit
Jul 2013
#44
He's framing the debate. He is trying to appear reasonable. If the Republicans continue to
alfredo
Jul 2013
#46
Well, why did he not state which programs he is talking about. The Old Cold War policies maybe?
sabrina 1
Jul 2013
#59
I am not willing. I will fight it every step of the way with everything I have.
liberal_at_heart
Jul 2013
#61
"most cherished programs" -- if they're cherished, then they're working. leave them alone.
nashville_brook
Jul 2013
#73