Democratic establishment unmasked: prime defenders of NSA bulk spying

[TiberiusB]

151. Progress

Trying to steer the discussion away from the NSA spying program is exactly why your post was a strawman. The title of the OP is "Democratic establishment unmasked: prime defenders of NSA bulk spying" not "Let's debate Glenn Greenwald". There is no way you can reasonably argue that this thread was meant to be a discussion on whether Glenn Greenwald "may not share some of the things that I always thought drove most liberals and progressives - improving the lives of those not in the top 1%." Right there you veer into strawman territory. Rather than debate the NSA's spying program(s), you tried to shift the discussion to Republican obstructionism and from there to Glenn Greenwald.

Now this comment is actually the exact opposite. You actually list the reasons for your taking a particular position on the NSA debate. I may not agree, but at least it builds a foundation for me to see your position and helps move the discussion forward. For me, the issue isn't that they can't sift through all the data now, it's that they can hang onto whatever they please until they find a reason to sift through it later. Does anyone doubt that the records of individuals involved in organized protests like the Occupy movement are more than a little likely to be getting a little extra scrutiny? Keep in mind that many activists have been officially labeled terrorists, been put on no fly lists, had personal belongings like notebooks and valuable research confiscated, and so on. That the current administration routinely argues that everything it does is legal but refuses to prove it in a court of law is hardly encouraging. Imagine the political damage possible to an opposition party eager to dig up any and all dirt on an opponent. I'm guessing it has already happened, and more than once, though not necessarily under this administration. As for the "it's just meta data" argument, imagine I decided to keep an eye on the leaders of a particular environmental group, tracking just their phone calls and locations. I could look for patterns suggesting up coming protests, or try to find a journalist's sources, or find that elusive mistress. Meta data is extremely potent if analyzed correctly.