General Discussion

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)

53. Except that in some cases property is life

Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:54 PM

Jul 2013

I know several older people, for example, living on SS, who would be in terrible physical trouble a month or two after they were robbed of a few hundred dollars. That's the money they use for prescriptions that literally keep them alive.

And if it kept happening?

When people break into people's homes to rob the inhabitants, I think it's justifiable to shoot the invaders. Tragic, but justifiable. To be mourned, but yet justifiable.

A criminal who robs a poor or vulnerable person takes upon him- or herself all the guilt for all the possible consequences, and that includes loss of life or physical harm. If a person is threatened with robbery of some property that he or she cannot afford to lose without risk to his or her own life or the lives of family, such a person is entirely justified in using lethal force or the threat of lethal force to defend against the loss.

Robbing the rich is a very different crime from robbing those who need every penny they've got.

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My property is never worth more than a person's life. [View all] Ed Suspicious Jul 2013 OP

Glad that works for you... Pelican Jul 2013 #1

Those that value property over life LWolf Jul 2013 #5

So yes...? Pelican Jul 2013 #14

I don't think grabbing someone, LWolf Jul 2013 #20

That was the point... Pelican Jul 2013 #22

LOL, it is obvious what you are doing. n-t Logical Jul 2013 #41

A clever one Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #134

What if that shove landed them in front of a car... Agschmid Jul 2013 #174

What if Voldemort is real? LWolf Jul 2013 #221

So your talking about greedy corporations that help kill people for profit like the MIC? L0oniX Jul 2013 #16

Which is why the promise of the U.S. LWolf Jul 2013 #18

Exactly. Materialistic capitalism only succeeds if it convinces us our stuff is all that matters NuclearDem Jul 2013 #64

They're only "within their rights" in SYG and other similar states. nt pnwmom Jul 2013 #48

Even in Florida the law would not allow deadly force to defend property treestar Jul 2013 #63

That is your choice... Pelican Jul 2013 #71

What if he attacks you with it? treestar Jul 2013 #74

Again... your choice... Pelican Jul 2013 #79

I do give them the stink eye treestar Jul 2013 #82

I wouldn't even give them the "stink eye", I'd just let the police handle it. tumtum Jul 2013 #87

If you care about a thing than the life of another human being, you've got issues. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #83

You "care about" a plaque more than a life. Doesn't surprise me or probably most of us here, glad yo uppityperson Jul 2013 #97

I said resistance.... Pelican Jul 2013 #116

"My property is never worth more than a person's life." uppityperson Jul 2013 #120

I see through you. Agschmid Jul 2013 #175

Why in the living fuck would anyone steal that? alphafemale Jul 2013 #135

Why would anyone want that? Really? No real monetary value, just sentimental. notadmblnd Jul 2013 #146

Where did he say kill? joeglow3 Jul 2013 #156

"My property is never worth more than a person's life." uppityperson Jul 2013 #157

Go back and re read joeglow3 Jul 2013 #159

If one is going to resort to "violent resistance" to retain their worthless keepsakes notadmblnd Jul 2013 #161

So you support killing people with your car joeglow3 Jul 2013 #165

For the most part cars are not used to violently resist theft of sentimental relics. notadmblnd Jul 2013 #170

I used it as an example because it happened... Pelican Jul 2013 #199

No normal person tries to stop a property theft of any kind by a deliberate bullet to the brain. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #103

I agree with this statement PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #147

NO! Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2013 #186

Enough of the money-possessions are worth more than a life. we can do it Jul 2013 #212

I merely suggest that most people have a limit... Pelican Jul 2013 #213

Think what you want. we can do it Jul 2013 #214

K... Pelican Jul 2013 #216

I generally agree with you with a caveat. tumtum Jul 2013 #2

You would have had every right to defend your children because they are HUMAN beings pnwmom Jul 2013 #52

I should make myself clearer. tumtum Jul 2013 #57

But you don't have a duty to defend your property at all costs. pnwmom Jul 2013 #59

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, or maybe I'm from a different era, tumtum Jul 2013 #61

Are you saying you have a general right and reponsibility to defend your things (i.e., property) pnwmom Jul 2013 #65

Only me, my wife, and my children. tumtum Jul 2013 #75

they are NOT property - they are PERSONS treestar Jul 2013 #80

Yes, they are persons, but they were our "property" to protect at the time tumtum Jul 2013 #86

The law views your children as your property Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #91

Up until they're 18 or emancipated. tumtum Jul 2013 #95

Yes Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #99

Under the law they are persons treestar Jul 2013 #94

I get that, but my wife and I considered them our "property" to protect tumtum Jul 2013 #100

What an attitude to have toward them treestar Jul 2013 #125

That would be your problem, not mine or my wife's. tumtum Jul 2013 #133

This message was self-deleted by its author Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #102

No. They were your RESPONSIBILITY to protect, not your "property". uppityperson Jul 2013 #101

NO, they were our " property" to protect until they were of age. tumtum Jul 2013 #105

You are incapable of learning the correct meaning of a word? Oh. uppityperson Jul 2013 #113

It would seem that you are incapable of learning that people have differences of opinions, tumtum Jul 2013 #115

Merely commenting on a forum discussion. Differences of opinions are ok. And if you want to use a uppityperson Jul 2013 #118

Differences of opinions are ok, tumtum Jul 2013 #122

Reading your profile, we grew up the same era. Not sure of place or upbringing, but era, yes. uppityperson Jul 2013 #123

So what was the title deed - the birth certificate? treestar Jul 2013 #129

Why are you continuing to make such a big deal over this? tumtum Jul 2013 #131

I think people are bothered so much because the end of slavery pnwmom Jul 2013 #195

Now they are grown up treestar Jul 2013 #128

You mean when I was a kid I was my parent's "property"? tularetom Jul 2013 #194

The law views your children as your property Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #96

They are not property - they are PERSONS treestar Jul 2013 #124

So.... pipi_k Jul 2013 #188

+1 Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #191

The only people that have ever been viewed as property Progressive dog Jul 2013 #176

Hell, even the relationship I have with dogs and other pets... hunter Jul 2013 #196

I was talking about people, my dog is Progressive dog Jul 2013 #215

I almost never take into consideration "the way the worlds sees it..." hunter Jul 2013 #217

Well I'm glad for you to Progressive dog Jul 2013 #218

We generally have three animal shelter dogs of the "unadoptable" often much older sort. hunter Jul 2013 #220

Viewing your child as "property" is very.... PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #148

I. Do. Not. Care. What. You. Think. tumtum Jul 2013 #151

That is fine. PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #155

Ask me anything you want, I'll answer, tumtum Jul 2013 #207

exactly Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2013 #187

Those into guns will disagree with you, especially if they can shoot someone of another race. Hoyt Jul 2013 #3

... tumtum Jul 2013 #4

Yep ...some try to portray "all" gun owners as sociopath racists who want to shoot purple people. L0oniX Jul 2013 #11

So it would seem. tumtum Jul 2013 #27

Faceplam.......smh NT. JH19059 Jul 2013 #72

Bullshit amateur psychoanalysis always adds SO much to a thread! Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #209

Agree. Seen enough cops kill someone who stole a car. n/t L0oniX Jul 2013 #6

It isn't always easy to distinguish whether someone is threatening your property cali Jul 2013 #7

When someone breaks into your house, they get what they get. I probably wouldn't start swinging my Hoyt Jul 2013 #36

That's how I feel. tumtum Jul 2013 #47

Yep. Next thing, they'll defending cases when it just "looked like" someone was up to no good... reformist2 Jul 2013 #8

+1 gollygee Jul 2013 #15

So if someone is breaking into my home, and my daughter is here, and he wants to rape her The Straight Story Jul 2013 #9

If someone is stealing something from my, say garage, front yard, car, tumtum Jul 2013 #21

I agree with that completely. Hoyt Jul 2013 #37

If someone is breaking into your house, it's reasonable to fear for your safety gollygee Jul 2013 #24

Could you... 99Forever Jul 2013 #70

Most property is kept in a home, at least by most humans I know of The Straight Story Jul 2013 #90

Bullshit. 99Forever Jul 2013 #92

Really? Read the rest of the thread The Straight Story Jul 2013 #98

Come try it and see what happens. 99Forever Jul 2013 #112

Beautiful dogs, yours? tumtum Jul 2013 #119

Thanks. 99Forever Jul 2013 #127

We have 2 white GSD's, one male, one female. tumtum Jul 2013 #136

I'd be surprised if... 99Forever Jul 2013 #141

That's my thinking too. tumtum Jul 2013 #143

So you DO support harming people simply stealing? joeglow3 Jul 2013 #164

Where did I say otherwise? 99Forever Jul 2013 #169

Do you have a car? Do you work somewhere else? Are you ever gone from your home or somewhere else? uppityperson Jul 2013 #106

No, I do not have a car. The Straight Story Jul 2013 #109

I agree. Apophis Jul 2013 #10

Aren't there states where you can shoot a FLEEING burglar? HockeyMom Jul 2013 #12

Just one, Texas, and only after dark. tumtum Jul 2013 #30

In Texas recently Crunchy Frog Jul 2013 #200

That's just crazy. tumtum Jul 2013 #206

Nope. Not one. And no one can provide factual support for a contrary assertion. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #140

Don't know if it's legal, but at least one man got away with shooting Just Saying Jul 2013 #145

One could argue Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #13

You can argue that... Pelican Jul 2013 #19

Really? Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #26

Oh, how you misread Gandhi... Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #73

Bam.. Gandhi high five! Pelican Jul 2013 #77

There are many Gandhi quotes Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #78

I'm not an expert on Gandhi, but I wonder what he would say about someone like Hitler. I consider HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #153

My understanding of Gandhi shows his philosophy to be active non-violence... Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #208

Hehehe! B2G Jul 2013 #69

I love me some naturallistic fallacy. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #81

Yes one could make that strawman argument gollygee Jul 2013 #25

I don't think Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #33

Yeah gollygee Jul 2013 #38

It seems I am correct. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #42

It looked to me like gollygee Jul 2013 #50

Maybe if you just read what I wrote Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #56

Horseshit hack89 Jul 2013 #29

So all life is equal Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #32

A value system that cannot distinguish good from evil is useless hack89 Jul 2013 #40

You are conflating Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #44

Gandhi supported violence for self defense hack89 Jul 2013 #58

Actually Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #68

It is hard to imagine that Gandhi would condemn a man hack89 Jul 2013 #76

Conflation again Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #84

Killing is never the right choice except when it is the only choice hack89 Jul 2013 #85

It can be argued it could be the moral choice Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #104

????????????? tumtum Jul 2013 #34

That's fine Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #35

In case you missed it, tumtum Jul 2013 #39

I did not miss it Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #45

That's why I put property in "". tumtum Jul 2013 #55

Again you confuse "responsibility" with "property". uppityperson Jul 2013 #108

We have different beliefs and definitions. tumtum Jul 2013 #110

Of course you have the right to make up your own definitions and to refuse to learn/use proper uppityperson Jul 2013 #114

Thank you. tumtum Jul 2013 #117

I grew up in the same era you did... chillfactor Jul 2013 #139

Slave owner? Really? tumtum Jul 2013 #144

If your profile reflects reality, we grew up in the same era. I consider family responsibility, not uppityperson Jul 2013 #160

Enjoy your stay. nt alphafemale Jul 2013 #149

Why thank you! Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #150

You have an inherent right to preserve yourself. NutmegYankee Jul 2013 #162

Incorrect and conflation. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #167

LOL nt NutmegYankee Jul 2013 #171

Why would someone allow themselves to be murdered without putting up even non-lethal resistance? nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #180

I do believe Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #182

Okay. Fair enough. nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #183

screw that. Niceguy1 Jul 2013 #205

One could. It is, however, a poor argument. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #210

You have merely Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #224

I did nothing of the sort. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #225

So let me get this right... Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #226

Yep. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #228

Wow, you are a piece of work Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #230

A simple "yes, we're done here" would have sufficed. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #232

I see I was correct. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #234

Then sell it all and send the money to the Sudan. gulliver Jul 2013 #17

For that matter, why is one life more important than another. If I fire at an intruder hughee99 Jul 2013 #23

This is again a strawman argument gollygee Jul 2013 #28

I read it up above just now. It wasn't a straw man there, either. hughee99 Jul 2013 #66

Posts like yours are part of why we have a hard time regulating guns in this country Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #121

Nope, I didn't say anything of the sort. hughee99 Jul 2013 #138

Ok. geckosfeet Jul 2013 #31

A CCW instructor told me if someone broke into his house.... Logical Jul 2013 #43

A lot of nitpicking going on here, but the OP is basically right. reformist2 Jul 2013 #46

+1 nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #181

I agree. Trouble is, many crims beg to differ. Period. Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #49

I agree, but it makes me wonder. rrneck Jul 2013 #51

Why own something you're not willing to fight for? PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #172

Except that in some cases property is life Yo_Mama Jul 2013 #53

a film that might interest you: Inhale - Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2013 #54

Sometimes it's not easy to know if all they want 1KansasDem Jul 2013 #60

If someone breaks into my house while I'm there I'll use any means I have to for protection. KentuckyWoman Jul 2013 #62

If someone is breaking into your home B2G Jul 2013 #67

It isn't my job to find out, my job is to assume intent to harm and remove the threat. TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #126

If someone breaks into my home, and if I really want to know, I'll call a Psychic Medium afterwards. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #142

You must not be a 1%er. That's all they value. Property. nt valerief Jul 2013 #88

+1 Just Saying Jul 2013 #89

I'll remember this post after you Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #93

I have noticed UglyGreed Jul 2013 #107

Not always pipi_k Jul 2013 #219

Good point and I have discussed UglyGreed Jul 2013 #222

I agree, but otoh, YarnAddict Jul 2013 #111

I guess you do not own any guns DrDan Jul 2013 #130

How about your dog? Jenoch Jul 2013 #132

Since my dogs are considered my property doggie breath Jul 2013 #168

Close to never, but not absolutely so. The more a person shows willingness to do violence to me... Silent3 Jul 2013 #137

What you say is true....but Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2013 #152

I always love threads like these because it makes it easier to spot some things. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #154

+1 uppityperson Jul 2013 #163

These things are always eyeopeners. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #166

depends on the property. ileus Jul 2013 #158

Dunno. Igel Jul 2013 #173

Keep your meathooks off. MrSlayer Jul 2013 #177

Mine is. Nunliebekinder Jul 2013 #178

This message was self-deleted by its author LumosMaxima Jul 2013 #179

Cool where do you live and do you have any good stuff? Egnever Jul 2013 #184

Interesting. The only thing stopping you from burglarizing my home is the Ed Suspicious Jul 2013 #189

The only thing stopping me is Egnever Jul 2013 #190

Were someone burgling my house while I was in it... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #233

A person who would take your property, would probably also take your life panzerfaust Jul 2013 #185

the problem is ceonupe Jul 2013 #192

You're perfectly entitled to make that your standard customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #193

Unfortunately someone robbing you may not be so enlightened Recursion Jul 2013 #197

What if the cops break in because they are at the wrong house or they want my property? hunter Jul 2013 #198

+1. Hoyt Jul 2013 #203

Pets are unfortunately property under the law. LeftyMom Jul 2013 #201

Exactly Peaceplace80 Jul 2013 #202

I agree in all normal situations. ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #204

I concur. However... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #211

Unless I need my property to save life, Vattel Jul 2013 #223

+10,000 defacto7 Jul 2013 #227

I don't think it's such a black/white issue. last1standing Jul 2013 #229

Wait a sec. That doesn't include comic books, does it? randome Jul 2013 #231