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In reply to the discussion: Why Liberals Lose [View all]
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
34. Republicans win because America isn't the America we think it is.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 05:52 PM
Jul 2013

It's still an America dominated by a small-government mindset. I don't think people understand how dramatic the nation shifted in the 80s when Ronald Reagan won the presidency. There was a transformation as a nation that turned spiteful toward the government, minorities and entitlements. It's why, during that stretch, liberal Democrats like McGovern (though he was before Reagan), Mondale and Dukakis not only lost - but lost badly at the presidential level. Hell, the Democrats even managed to lose the senate in the 1980s.

So, while people are quick to point to Obama and blame him - or blame Clinton - the reality is that liberals were losing long before either came onto the national scene. It didn't just change in 1992 with Clinton's election and it wasn't reaffirmed with Obama's reelection. The ideology was collapsing out of the Reagan Era and I'd wager it took those two politicians to save it.

Unfortunately, that's not the answer most want to hear. They want to blame the likes of Clinton and Obama and other so-called 'conservative' Democrats because it's the easiest answer without questioning the stark reality of America - it's not a liberal nation. Sure, if you nuance each point long enough, you'll get Americans to concede that they believe in Social Security and Medicare and a woman's right to choose, but you said it: the attention span isn't there for that.

So, instead, it comes down to buzz words. Well let's be honest, to most Americans, the idea of government scares 'em. It's scared 'em since the 1970s when they rejected the idea of big government.

That's where it started. Republicans were successful at portraying Democrats as big government, tax and spend liberals. It's what killed Michael Dukakis in a winnable presidential election and it even hurt John Kerry in 2004. As much as we want to pretend the country has moved away from that stereotype - they haven't. So, again, unless you nuance every position, it's hard to get across, successfully, anyway, an ideology that does support an increase in spending and a larger role of government.

Until you change the mindset of the American people, it won't matter who you put up - it didn't matter in the 70s and 80s, right? I mean, no one here would ever say McGovern or Mondale or Dukakis lost because they weren't left enough, or didn't do a good enough job distinguishing themselves from their opponent. It's also not a coincidence that Obama and Clinton, the two Democrats most here bemoan the most, are the only two who've successfully won reelection going all the way back to FDR (I guess you can throw in Truman, whose first term was almost entirely FDR's fourth). There is a reason for that. They've been able to rise above the typical caricature of a Democratic politician - out of touch, big government spender who just loves to tax.

Well, we witnessed in the 70s, 80s and 90s that Americans don't like that. We can fool ourselves and pretend they do - but every time the Democratic Party overreached in that regard, the Republicans came back and ran on small-government policies and won overwhelmingly - it helped 'em in '72, '80, '84, '88, '94, '00, '04 and '10.

You change that and then maybe you'll be able to change why liberalism continues to fail. But again, it's not fair to blame Obama or Clinton or any recent Democrat - this is a failure that's been in progress for the last 40 years. I mean, outside the Clinton & Obama presidencies, can anyone point to one liberal achievement we've seen since 1980? There aren't many - and let's be honest, that was long before Democrats supposedly lurched to the right.

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Why Liberals Lose [View all] Phillyindy Jul 2013 OP
The GOP gets votes in the face of unmitigated unreason through fear lebkuchen Jul 2013 #1
we need somone who is good at politics. Obama and Clinton are very good politicians. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #2
True...but lets face it... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #4
It won't be Obama. He has already proven that, but that doesn't mean there won't be other liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #6
Love your optimism but... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #10
The answer, in part, is that choices are reduced and we, as ordinary Americans, cannot pay AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #3
Occupy had a shot... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #5
I don't get that. How was Occupy any different than the hippies in the sixties? liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #9
Hippies in the 60's... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #12
They didn't blow anything. They are an organic, grass roots protest movement that opposes the liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #32
C'mon... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #35
If they had done what the Tea Party had done it would have defeated the whole purpose of the liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #38
Think we're talking past each other Phillyindy Jul 2013 #40
"while the Democrat party, driven by liberals, has worked tirelessly for the working man" Agony Jul 2013 #7
that line has to be a joke, right? hfojvt Jul 2013 #56
Nailed it Mnpaul Jul 2013 #64
They appeal to the one issue voters by catering to their fears. hobbit709 Jul 2013 #8
To a big extent it's because Democrats don't draw stark enough distinctions Fumesucker Jul 2013 #11
Totally agree, and I think Phillyindy Jul 2013 #13
It's obvious... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #14
More than a few elected Democrats have bought.. or been bought.. into the Republican talking points Fumesucker Jul 2013 #16
Yep, left has zero power anymore Phillyindy Jul 2013 #18
well this abused wife has had enough. I'm gone. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #20
? Abused wife? Phillyindy Jul 2013 #23
I'm tired of the verbal abuse liberals have to put up by other democrats, but more so I am tired of liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #30
I hear you, Elizabeth Warren! Phillyindy Jul 2013 #36
Nail on head LittleBlue Jul 2013 #55
"Democrat party?" gulliver Jul 2013 #15
*sigh Phillyindy Jul 2013 #17
Not sure if you are aware... gulliver Jul 2013 #19
Oh... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #21
It's actually more the norm for the more dirtball... gulliver Jul 2013 #29
... because they are afraid to be Liberal, and so run, act and functionally are republicans panzerfaust Jul 2013 #22
Great post Phillyindy Jul 2013 #25
If the answer you keep getting doesn't make sense... Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #24
I have.. Phillyindy Jul 2013 #26
If I had enlightenment Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #28
Republicans have a good propaganda machine Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2013 #27
Despite your talking points, I think the problem is with older Americans. reformist2 Jul 2013 #31
No, the youth just don't vote Phillyindy Jul 2013 #39
Because liberals have this weird aversion to propaganda Scootaloo Jul 2013 #33
My reply Phillyindy Jul 2013 #48
Republicans win because America isn't the America we think it is. Drunken Irishman Jul 2013 #34
Yes that is when we went from the vision of a "great society" to the "greed is good" Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #52
Lies are also available at your fingertips 24/7. Beartracks Jul 2013 #37
funding grassroots organizations and policy shops would be a good start nashville_brook Jul 2013 #41
It is that 25% who are voting Republican. Curmudgeoness Jul 2013 #42
25% is about the percentage of the population that votes for the GOP. JoeyT Jul 2013 #43
All Politics is Local. And, Better the Devil You Know. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2013 #44
By obliterating their propaganda outlets Doctor_J Jul 2013 #45
So true, I remember... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #49
"the Democrat party, driven by liberals, has worked tirelessly for the working man, et al" YoungDemCA Jul 2013 #46
That's a shame...I recommend... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #50
Simple, it's a lot easier to rile up people who are afraid of losing something... WCGreen Jul 2013 #47
I don't know. The left has made actual policy blunders in the past we're still suffering from Recursion Jul 2013 #51
How, by facing reality... brooklynite Jul 2013 #53
Actually it is 3 groups, Demcratic voters, Republican voters and half the country who Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #58
Actually liberals win and have been for a while. wickerwoman Jul 2013 #54
Outside of social issues... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #61
So in 2008, wickerwoman Jul 2013 #66
Ok so... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #67
I am guessing you were napping during the election s of Doctor_J Aug 2013 #68
This post seems odd to me, the whole 'rail and rage at the stupid electorate while Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #57
Ummm... Phillyindy Jul 2013 #62
A lot of our candidates are fucking terrible Sen. Walter Sobchak Jul 2013 #59
Because some people think you should only have what you earn mathematic Jul 2013 #60
Because the population in general rrneck Jul 2013 #63
Another factor Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #65
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #69
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