General Discussion

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

208. My understanding of Gandhi shows his philosophy to be active non-violence...

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:06 AM

Jul 2013

Where systematic means of non-violent strategies are used against an oppressor. His personal commitment (and advocacy) of resisting both systematic oppression and personal threat without inflicting injury on the oppressor was not so didactic as to hold up to moral opprobrium those who used violence to protect their own life, the lives of loved-ones, and the community; hence the quote. I understand MLK also noted this distinction with a difference when it came to the defense of one's family.

Tolstoy's pacifism differs markedly from that of Gandhi's in that the former did not advocate active pacifism or non-violent resistance as Gandhi & MLK did. And he probably would not have agreed with either non-violent or violent resistance to attacks on one's self, family and community.

This is where the debate bogs down: There are those who confuse Gandhi & MLK's non-violent resistance with Tolstoy's seeming uniform pacifism, even in the face of personal/familial attack. In the social realm, a non-violent activist would resist a personal/family attack -- either non-violently or violently -- and still be considered a "benevolent man" and receive the "gratitude of his community."

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My property is never worth more than a person's life. [View all] Ed Suspicious Jul 2013 OP

Glad that works for you... Pelican Jul 2013 #1

Those that value property over life LWolf Jul 2013 #5

So yes...? Pelican Jul 2013 #14

I don't think grabbing someone, LWolf Jul 2013 #20

That was the point... Pelican Jul 2013 #22

LOL, it is obvious what you are doing. n-t Logical Jul 2013 #41

A clever one Kingofalldems Jul 2013 #134

What if that shove landed them in front of a car... Agschmid Jul 2013 #174

What if Voldemort is real? LWolf Jul 2013 #221

So your talking about greedy corporations that help kill people for profit like the MIC? L0oniX Jul 2013 #16

Which is why the promise of the U.S. LWolf Jul 2013 #18

Exactly. Materialistic capitalism only succeeds if it convinces us our stuff is all that matters NuclearDem Jul 2013 #64

They're only "within their rights" in SYG and other similar states. nt pnwmom Jul 2013 #48

Even in Florida the law would not allow deadly force to defend property treestar Jul 2013 #63

That is your choice... Pelican Jul 2013 #71

What if he attacks you with it? treestar Jul 2013 #74

Again... your choice... Pelican Jul 2013 #79

I do give them the stink eye treestar Jul 2013 #82

I wouldn't even give them the "stink eye", I'd just let the police handle it. tumtum Jul 2013 #87

If you care about a thing than the life of another human being, you've got issues. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #83

You "care about" a plaque more than a life. Doesn't surprise me or probably most of us here, glad yo uppityperson Jul 2013 #97

I said resistance.... Pelican Jul 2013 #116

"My property is never worth more than a person's life." uppityperson Jul 2013 #120

I see through you. Agschmid Jul 2013 #175

Why in the living fuck would anyone steal that? alphafemale Jul 2013 #135

Why would anyone want that? Really? No real monetary value, just sentimental. notadmblnd Jul 2013 #146

Where did he say kill? joeglow3 Jul 2013 #156

"My property is never worth more than a person's life." uppityperson Jul 2013 #157

Go back and re read joeglow3 Jul 2013 #159

If one is going to resort to "violent resistance" to retain their worthless keepsakes notadmblnd Jul 2013 #161

So you support killing people with your car joeglow3 Jul 2013 #165

For the most part cars are not used to violently resist theft of sentimental relics. notadmblnd Jul 2013 #170

I used it as an example because it happened... Pelican Jul 2013 #199

No normal person tries to stop a property theft of any kind by a deliberate bullet to the brain. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #103

I agree with this statement PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #147

NO! Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2013 #186

Enough of the money-possessions are worth more than a life. we can do it Jul 2013 #212

I merely suggest that most people have a limit... Pelican Jul 2013 #213

Think what you want. we can do it Jul 2013 #214

K... Pelican Jul 2013 #216

I generally agree with you with a caveat. tumtum Jul 2013 #2

You would have had every right to defend your children because they are HUMAN beings pnwmom Jul 2013 #52

I should make myself clearer. tumtum Jul 2013 #57

But you don't have a duty to defend your property at all costs. pnwmom Jul 2013 #59

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, or maybe I'm from a different era, tumtum Jul 2013 #61

Are you saying you have a general right and reponsibility to defend your things (i.e., property) pnwmom Jul 2013 #65

Only me, my wife, and my children. tumtum Jul 2013 #75

they are NOT property - they are PERSONS treestar Jul 2013 #80

Yes, they are persons, but they were our "property" to protect at the time tumtum Jul 2013 #86

The law views your children as your property Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #91

Up until they're 18 or emancipated. tumtum Jul 2013 #95

Yes Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #99

Under the law they are persons treestar Jul 2013 #94

I get that, but my wife and I considered them our "property" to protect tumtum Jul 2013 #100

What an attitude to have toward them treestar Jul 2013 #125

That would be your problem, not mine or my wife's. tumtum Jul 2013 #133

This message was self-deleted by its author Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #102

No. They were your RESPONSIBILITY to protect, not your "property". uppityperson Jul 2013 #101

NO, they were our " property" to protect until they were of age. tumtum Jul 2013 #105

You are incapable of learning the correct meaning of a word? Oh. uppityperson Jul 2013 #113

It would seem that you are incapable of learning that people have differences of opinions, tumtum Jul 2013 #115

Merely commenting on a forum discussion. Differences of opinions are ok. And if you want to use a uppityperson Jul 2013 #118

Differences of opinions are ok, tumtum Jul 2013 #122

Reading your profile, we grew up the same era. Not sure of place or upbringing, but era, yes. uppityperson Jul 2013 #123

So what was the title deed - the birth certificate? treestar Jul 2013 #129

Why are you continuing to make such a big deal over this? tumtum Jul 2013 #131

I think people are bothered so much because the end of slavery pnwmom Jul 2013 #195

Now they are grown up treestar Jul 2013 #128

You mean when I was a kid I was my parent's "property"? tularetom Jul 2013 #194

The law views your children as your property Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #96

They are not property - they are PERSONS treestar Jul 2013 #124

So.... pipi_k Jul 2013 #188

+1 Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #191

The only people that have ever been viewed as property Progressive dog Jul 2013 #176

Hell, even the relationship I have with dogs and other pets... hunter Jul 2013 #196

I was talking about people, my dog is Progressive dog Jul 2013 #215

I almost never take into consideration "the way the worlds sees it..." hunter Jul 2013 #217

Well I'm glad for you to Progressive dog Jul 2013 #218

We generally have three animal shelter dogs of the "unadoptable" often much older sort. hunter Jul 2013 #220

Viewing your child as "property" is very.... PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #148

I. Do. Not. Care. What. You. Think. tumtum Jul 2013 #151

That is fine. PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #155

Ask me anything you want, I'll answer, tumtum Jul 2013 #207

exactly Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2013 #187

Those into guns will disagree with you, especially if they can shoot someone of another race. Hoyt Jul 2013 #3

... tumtum Jul 2013 #4

Yep ...some try to portray "all" gun owners as sociopath racists who want to shoot purple people. L0oniX Jul 2013 #11

So it would seem. tumtum Jul 2013 #27

Faceplam.......smh NT. JH19059 Jul 2013 #72

Bullshit amateur psychoanalysis always adds SO much to a thread! Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #209

Agree. Seen enough cops kill someone who stole a car. n/t L0oniX Jul 2013 #6

It isn't always easy to distinguish whether someone is threatening your property cali Jul 2013 #7

When someone breaks into your house, they get what they get. I probably wouldn't start swinging my Hoyt Jul 2013 #36

That's how I feel. tumtum Jul 2013 #47

Yep. Next thing, they'll defending cases when it just "looked like" someone was up to no good... reformist2 Jul 2013 #8

+1 gollygee Jul 2013 #15

So if someone is breaking into my home, and my daughter is here, and he wants to rape her The Straight Story Jul 2013 #9

If someone is stealing something from my, say garage, front yard, car, tumtum Jul 2013 #21

I agree with that completely. Hoyt Jul 2013 #37

If someone is breaking into your house, it's reasonable to fear for your safety gollygee Jul 2013 #24

Could you... 99Forever Jul 2013 #70

Most property is kept in a home, at least by most humans I know of The Straight Story Jul 2013 #90

Bullshit. 99Forever Jul 2013 #92

Really? Read the rest of the thread The Straight Story Jul 2013 #98

Come try it and see what happens. 99Forever Jul 2013 #112

Beautiful dogs, yours? tumtum Jul 2013 #119

Thanks. 99Forever Jul 2013 #127

We have 2 white GSD's, one male, one female. tumtum Jul 2013 #136

I'd be surprised if... 99Forever Jul 2013 #141

That's my thinking too. tumtum Jul 2013 #143

So you DO support harming people simply stealing? joeglow3 Jul 2013 #164

Where did I say otherwise? 99Forever Jul 2013 #169

Do you have a car? Do you work somewhere else? Are you ever gone from your home or somewhere else? uppityperson Jul 2013 #106

No, I do not have a car. The Straight Story Jul 2013 #109

I agree. Apophis Jul 2013 #10

Aren't there states where you can shoot a FLEEING burglar? HockeyMom Jul 2013 #12

Just one, Texas, and only after dark. tumtum Jul 2013 #30

In Texas recently Crunchy Frog Jul 2013 #200

That's just crazy. tumtum Jul 2013 #206

Nope. Not one. And no one can provide factual support for a contrary assertion. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #140

Don't know if it's legal, but at least one man got away with shooting Just Saying Jul 2013 #145

One could argue Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #13

You can argue that... Pelican Jul 2013 #19

Really? Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #26

Oh, how you misread Gandhi... Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #73

Bam.. Gandhi high five! Pelican Jul 2013 #77

There are many Gandhi quotes Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #78

I'm not an expert on Gandhi, but I wonder what he would say about someone like Hitler. I consider HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #153

My understanding of Gandhi shows his philosophy to be active non-violence... Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #208

Hehehe! B2G Jul 2013 #69

I love me some naturallistic fallacy. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #81

Yes one could make that strawman argument gollygee Jul 2013 #25

I don't think Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #33

Yeah gollygee Jul 2013 #38

It seems I am correct. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #42

It looked to me like gollygee Jul 2013 #50

Maybe if you just read what I wrote Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #56

Horseshit hack89 Jul 2013 #29

So all life is equal Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #32

A value system that cannot distinguish good from evil is useless hack89 Jul 2013 #40

You are conflating Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #44

Gandhi supported violence for self defense hack89 Jul 2013 #58

Actually Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #68

It is hard to imagine that Gandhi would condemn a man hack89 Jul 2013 #76

Conflation again Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #84

Killing is never the right choice except when it is the only choice hack89 Jul 2013 #85

It can be argued it could be the moral choice Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #104

????????????? tumtum Jul 2013 #34

That's fine Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #35

In case you missed it, tumtum Jul 2013 #39

I did not miss it Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #45

That's why I put property in "". tumtum Jul 2013 #55

Again you confuse "responsibility" with "property". uppityperson Jul 2013 #108

We have different beliefs and definitions. tumtum Jul 2013 #110

Of course you have the right to make up your own definitions and to refuse to learn/use proper uppityperson Jul 2013 #114

Thank you. tumtum Jul 2013 #117

I grew up in the same era you did... chillfactor Jul 2013 #139

Slave owner? Really? tumtum Jul 2013 #144

If your profile reflects reality, we grew up in the same era. I consider family responsibility, not uppityperson Jul 2013 #160

Enjoy your stay. nt alphafemale Jul 2013 #149

Why thank you! Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #150

You have an inherent right to preserve yourself. NutmegYankee Jul 2013 #162

Incorrect and conflation. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #167

LOL nt NutmegYankee Jul 2013 #171

Why would someone allow themselves to be murdered without putting up even non-lethal resistance? nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #180

I do believe Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #182

Okay. Fair enough. nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #183

screw that. Niceguy1 Jul 2013 #205

One could. It is, however, a poor argument. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #210

You have merely Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #224

I did nothing of the sort. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #225

So let me get this right... Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #226

Yep. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #228

Wow, you are a piece of work Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #230

A simple "yes, we're done here" would have sufficed. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #232

I see I was correct. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #234

Then sell it all and send the money to the Sudan. gulliver Jul 2013 #17

For that matter, why is one life more important than another. If I fire at an intruder hughee99 Jul 2013 #23

This is again a strawman argument gollygee Jul 2013 #28

I read it up above just now. It wasn't a straw man there, either. hughee99 Jul 2013 #66

Posts like yours are part of why we have a hard time regulating guns in this country Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #121

Nope, I didn't say anything of the sort. hughee99 Jul 2013 #138

Ok. geckosfeet Jul 2013 #31

A CCW instructor told me if someone broke into his house.... Logical Jul 2013 #43

A lot of nitpicking going on here, but the OP is basically right. reformist2 Jul 2013 #46

+1 nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #181

I agree. Trouble is, many crims beg to differ. Period. Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #49

I agree, but it makes me wonder. rrneck Jul 2013 #51

Why own something you're not willing to fight for? PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #172

Except that in some cases property is life Yo_Mama Jul 2013 #53

a film that might interest you: Inhale - Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2013 #54

Sometimes it's not easy to know if all they want 1KansasDem Jul 2013 #60

If someone breaks into my house while I'm there I'll use any means I have to for protection. KentuckyWoman Jul 2013 #62

If someone is breaking into your home B2G Jul 2013 #67

It isn't my job to find out, my job is to assume intent to harm and remove the threat. TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #126

If someone breaks into my home, and if I really want to know, I'll call a Psychic Medium afterwards. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #142

You must not be a 1%er. That's all they value. Property. nt valerief Jul 2013 #88

+1 Just Saying Jul 2013 #89

I'll remember this post after you Boom Sound 416 Jul 2013 #93

I have noticed UglyGreed Jul 2013 #107

Not always pipi_k Jul 2013 #219

Good point and I have discussed UglyGreed Jul 2013 #222

I agree, but otoh, YarnAddict Jul 2013 #111

I guess you do not own any guns DrDan Jul 2013 #130

How about your dog? Jenoch Jul 2013 #132

Since my dogs are considered my property doggie breath Jul 2013 #168

Close to never, but not absolutely so. The more a person shows willingness to do violence to me... Silent3 Jul 2013 #137

What you say is true....but Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2013 #152

I always love threads like these because it makes it easier to spot some things. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #154

+1 uppityperson Jul 2013 #163

These things are always eyeopeners. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #166

depends on the property. ileus Jul 2013 #158

Dunno. Igel Jul 2013 #173

Keep your meathooks off. MrSlayer Jul 2013 #177

Mine is. Nunliebekinder Jul 2013 #178

This message was self-deleted by its author LumosMaxima Jul 2013 #179

Cool where do you live and do you have any good stuff? Egnever Jul 2013 #184

Interesting. The only thing stopping you from burglarizing my home is the Ed Suspicious Jul 2013 #189

The only thing stopping me is Egnever Jul 2013 #190

Were someone burgling my house while I was in it... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #233

A person who would take your property, would probably also take your life panzerfaust Jul 2013 #185

the problem is ceonupe Jul 2013 #192

You're perfectly entitled to make that your standard customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #193

Unfortunately someone robbing you may not be so enlightened Recursion Jul 2013 #197

What if the cops break in because they are at the wrong house or they want my property? hunter Jul 2013 #198

+1. Hoyt Jul 2013 #203

Pets are unfortunately property under the law. LeftyMom Jul 2013 #201

Exactly Peaceplace80 Jul 2013 #202

I agree in all normal situations. ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #204

I concur. However... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #211

Unless I need my property to save life, Vattel Jul 2013 #223

+10,000 defacto7 Jul 2013 #227

I don't think it's such a black/white issue. last1standing Jul 2013 #229

Wait a sec. That doesn't include comic books, does it? randome Jul 2013 #231