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In reply to the discussion: Glen Greenwald Continues His Lies [View all]leveymg
(36,418 posts)51. Not speculating at all. It's based in public documents and from court cases/FOIA/as well as leaks
Here's part of it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=journals&uid=143890
There's a little-known loophole provided by the PATRIOT Act and expanded by the 2008 FISA Amendment (the same one that Senator Obama voted for) that allows NSA three days to seek a warrant and seven under "exigent circumstances" - the government has interpreted this to mean that during that time, analysts are free to look at whatever they want in real-time (this program) and across US government and foreign databases. See, http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=journals&uid=143890
Indeed, it is virtually certain that large amounts of US person data are available without warrants to NSA personnel, at least in the files of other agencies that analysts and contractors may access in the process of profiling suspected terrorists and other NSA targets. Under the law as it was changed by the PATRIOT Act, analysts have 72 hours to examine US person content before they have to seek a warrant. See FISA, 50 U.S.C. § 1801(h)(4): http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1801
no contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party shall be disclosed, disseminated, or used for any purpose or retained for longer than 72 hours unless a court order under section 1805 of this title is obtained or unless the Attorney General determines that the information indicates a threat of death or serious bodily harm to any person.
Furthermore, NSA and its contractors have a full week to seek a FISA warrant under "exigent circumstances". 50 U.S.C. § 1805(e)(3): http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1805
(3) In the absence of a judicial order approving such electronic surveillance, the surveillance shall terminate when the information sought is obtained, when the application for the order is denied, or after the expiration of 7 days from the time of authorization by the Attorney General, whichever is earliest.
PRISM is a database of databases. Analysts have access to many databases, both domestic and foreign intelligence agencies, and those contain information from all sources and they generally are not minimized to segregate US person information. According to the sequence of steps shown in SLIDE 2, US person voice content does get separated out and sent to NUCLEON, and the metadata is deposited in MARINA, but only after a US person has gone through the profiling process. This suggests that US person content is utilized in some way at the initial profiling stage of PRISM, which appears to skirt the intent of FISA, if as we see below, loopholes allow it's use in practice.
Under the law, US person telco content is supposed to be "minimized" under Sec. 215 of the PATRIOT Act, and Sec. 216 is supposed to do the same for US person Internet records. Meanwhile Sec. 702 of the 2008 FAA (FISA Amendent Act) legalized the sort of targeted NSA activities that PRISM carries out, but that targeting is supposed to be restricted to foreign persons abroad. Nonetheless, because of loopholes in the law -- such as the allowance under Sec. 1801(h)(4) and 1805(e)(3) for up to seven days of unfettered viewing of US person data that has been worked into PRISM's Tasking process (profiling) -- it does not look like the FISA wall that is supposed to separate these two NSA programs provides any real separation.
NOTE B, SLIDE 3: NSA intercepts email, on-line chats in real-time, CONTENT TYPES C,D
This appears to answer some of the issue of whether analysts can access communications in real-time, or whether they have to wait for a warrant. That question was raised by this report in CNET: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u.s-phone-calls/
The National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls, a participant in the briefing said.
Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed on Thursday that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed "simply based on an analyst deciding that."
If the NSA wants "to listen to the phone," an analyst's decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. "I was rather startled," said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee.
Not only does this disclosure shed more light on how the NSA's formidable eavesdropping apparatus works domestically, it also suggests the Justice Department has secretly interpreted federal surveillance law to permit thousands of low-ranking analysts to eavesdrop on phone calls.
James Owens, a spokesman for Nadler, provided a statement on Sunday morning, a day after this article was published, saying: "I am pleased that the administration has reiterated that, as I have always believed, the NSA cannot listen to the content of Americans' phone calls without a specific warrant." Owens said he couldn't comment on what assurances from the Obama administration Nadler was referring to, and said Nadler was unavailable for an interview. (CNET had contacted Nadler for comment on Friday.)
Because the same legal standards that apply to phone calls also apply to e-mail messages, text messages, and instant messages, being able to listen to phone calls would mean the NSA analysts could also access the contents of Internet communications without going before a court and seeking approval.
Bear in mind two things: the system seems to handle phone, internet, and email messages differently, and under FISA as revised by the PATRIOT ACT, NSA analysts and contractors have 72 hours to do what they want with all data before seeking a warrant. A warrant is only required if the decision is made to target the individual.
Indeed, it is virtually certain that large amounts of US person data are available without warrants to NSA personnel, at least in the files of other agencies that analysts and contractors may access in the process of profiling suspected terrorists and other NSA targets. Under the law as it was changed by the PATRIOT Act, analysts have 72 hours to examine US person content before they have to seek a warrant. See FISA, 50 U.S.C. § 1801(h)(4): http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1801
no contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party shall be disclosed, disseminated, or used for any purpose or retained for longer than 72 hours unless a court order under section 1805 of this title is obtained or unless the Attorney General determines that the information indicates a threat of death or serious bodily harm to any person.
Furthermore, NSA and its contractors have a full week to seek a FISA warrant under "exigent circumstances". 50 U.S.C. § 1805(e)(3): http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1805
(3) In the absence of a judicial order approving such electronic surveillance, the surveillance shall terminate when the information sought is obtained, when the application for the order is denied, or after the expiration of 7 days from the time of authorization by the Attorney General, whichever is earliest.
PRISM is a database of databases. Analysts have access to many databases, both domestic and foreign intelligence agencies, and those contain information from all sources and they generally are not minimized to segregate US person information. According to the sequence of steps shown in SLIDE 2, US person voice content does get separated out and sent to NUCLEON, and the metadata is deposited in MARINA, but only after a US person has gone through the profiling process. This suggests that US person content is utilized in some way at the initial profiling stage of PRISM, which appears to skirt the intent of FISA, if as we see below, loopholes allow it's use in practice.
Under the law, US person telco content is supposed to be "minimized" under Sec. 215 of the PATRIOT Act, and Sec. 216 is supposed to do the same for US person Internet records. Meanwhile Sec. 702 of the 2008 FAA (FISA Amendent Act) legalized the sort of targeted NSA activities that PRISM carries out, but that targeting is supposed to be restricted to foreign persons abroad. Nonetheless, because of loopholes in the law -- such as the allowance under Sec. 1801(h)(4) and 1805(e)(3) for up to seven days of unfettered viewing of US person data that has been worked into PRISM's Tasking process (profiling) -- it does not look like the FISA wall that is supposed to separate these two NSA programs provides any real separation.
NOTE B, SLIDE 3: NSA intercepts email, on-line chats in real-time, CONTENT TYPES C,D
This appears to answer some of the issue of whether analysts can access communications in real-time, or whether they have to wait for a warrant. That question was raised by this report in CNET: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u.s-phone-calls/
The National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls, a participant in the briefing said.
Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed on Thursday that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed "simply based on an analyst deciding that."
If the NSA wants "to listen to the phone," an analyst's decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. "I was rather startled," said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee.
Not only does this disclosure shed more light on how the NSA's formidable eavesdropping apparatus works domestically, it also suggests the Justice Department has secretly interpreted federal surveillance law to permit thousands of low-ranking analysts to eavesdrop on phone calls.
James Owens, a spokesman for Nadler, provided a statement on Sunday morning, a day after this article was published, saying: "I am pleased that the administration has reiterated that, as I have always believed, the NSA cannot listen to the content of Americans' phone calls without a specific warrant." Owens said he couldn't comment on what assurances from the Obama administration Nadler was referring to, and said Nadler was unavailable for an interview. (CNET had contacted Nadler for comment on Friday.)
Because the same legal standards that apply to phone calls also apply to e-mail messages, text messages, and instant messages, being able to listen to phone calls would mean the NSA analysts could also access the contents of Internet communications without going before a court and seeking approval.
Bear in mind two things: the system seems to handle phone, internet, and email messages differently, and under FISA as revised by the PATRIOT ACT, NSA analysts and contractors have 72 hours to do what they want with all data before seeking a warrant. A warrant is only required if the decision is made to target the individual.
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Let's see; Glenn has access to actual, genuine data on the NSA programs
Fire Walk With Me
Jul 2013
#4
Do you know anyone who claims to have incredibly critical world changing information..
DCBob
Jul 2013
#26
Oh, c'mon-- you can do better than that. I've heard Sean Hannity use that "argument".
Marr
Jul 2013
#94
If it truly is so shocking and assuming super important, it is selfish of him to delay
Whisp
Jul 2013
#73
I agree there are real threats, but the government collecting it info on lawful
boston bean
Jul 2013
#133
Ok, he's a selfish meany. And that makes the information presented untrue... how? /nt
Marr
Jul 2013
#101
That's pretty much everyone. Writers write for a living. What do you do?
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2013
#129
Yup, it'll co$t you $ome buck$ unle$$ you want to mi$$ out on hi$ ver$ion of the $tory.
Major Hogwash
Jul 2013
#79
How does it get "picked up" if they are not collecting or storing the information?
kentuck
Jul 2013
#5
What is the difference between "NSA storing" that data and "goes in a database"?
leveymg
Jul 2013
#10
Not speculating at all. It's based in public documents and from court cases/FOIA/as well as leaks
leveymg
Jul 2013
#51
They're not even using it to track down missing children or bust sex slave traffickers.
AllINeedIsCoffee
Jul 2013
#62
Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to McCarthyism, v. 2.0 -- Taking slurs to a whole
HardTimes99
Jul 2013
#162
No, this is not speculation. I'm pointing out how the system describes it own operation.
leveymg
Jul 2013
#69
It sounds to me like he's acknowledging that call content is stored, but since it's not
Marr
Jul 2013
#48
Props for 'Schrodinger's Call' - an awesome and appropriate metaphor, even if
HardTimes99
Jul 2013
#163
R#4 & K for, I guess it's more important to know his name has 2 'n'(s) than his facts are correct nt
UTUSN
Jul 2013
#18
GG is either terribly misinformed or he like misinforming those who believe in him.
Thinkingabout
Jul 2013
#19
What is he misinformed about? He says the NSA has trillions of calls and e-mails in their database.
Common Sense Party
Jul 2013
#137
Have you really listened when phone call records are being collected. They are talking about the
Thinkingabout
Jul 2013
#143
No, no, NO. The NSA has actual recordings--but NOT of U.S. citizens. They RECORD calls
Common Sense Party
Jul 2013
#145
Recording of a call is obtained through wiretapping. This is completely different from phone call
Thinkingabout
Jul 2013
#156
I just watched that, Scarey, you would think we would have learned something. Thanks n/t
bahrbearian
Jul 2013
#34
William Binney, 30 yr. NSA employee..is the mathematician and code breaker that created the system..
nenagh
Jul 2013
#36
I can't thank you enough for posting the Binney videos. Invaluable to our understanding.
nenagh
Jul 2013
#75
Glen has an agenda. He will bend anything to serve its purpose. The truth matters little to him.
MjolnirTime
Jul 2013
#41
NonSensical Reply - An Individuals Response To Attack Is Independent Of The Attack
cantbeserious
Jul 2013
#64
I See - Continuing To Justify The Character Assassination Versus Focusing On The Information
cantbeserious
Jul 2013
#81
Missed The Point Again - Character Assassination Is Not The Same As The Information
cantbeserious
Jul 2013
#95
One Supposes That One Never Took A Debating Class - Character Assassination Is Not Allowed
cantbeserious
Jul 2013
#103
Once Again - No Comprehension Of The Underlying Information Nor Understanding Of Character Assassination
cantbeserious
Jul 2013
#128
Greenwald is a Journalist with access to information and connections that average citizens
NorthCarolina
Jul 2013
#105
I don't normally do this but after reading this entire thread there is only one appropriate response
Fumesucker
Jul 2013
#113
Yeah, I looked it up and have heard it used derogatorily in reference to Jewish people.
boston bean
Jul 2013
#135
You are shameful really, and I never bother getting angry with people on DU
flamingdem
Jul 2013
#139
I told you, you were using a word that has been used as a Jewish slur, toward a Jewish person.
boston bean
Jul 2013
#140
You did not even read the link. You do not care about learning or about the truth.
Common Sense Party
Jul 2013
#148
I looked. I can't find one that's credible. And I know you are wrong on this.
Common Sense Party
Jul 2013
#151
ok, you can close the discussion and determine what "links" you think are credible.
boston bean
Jul 2013
#152
The meaning of shyster may not have started out as an Anti-Semitic slur but...
unapatriciated
Jul 2013
#161