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starroute

(12,977 posts)

115. The purpose of disinfo is to muddy things up, not to convince

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 02:13 PM

Jul 2013

For example, we have a stream of investigative journalists and whistleblowers dying in questionable circumstances, being arrested on seemingly trumped-up charges, or simply being called liars or Ron Paul supporters.

You might not actually believe any of the negative statements you see about such people. But that's not the point. The point is to sow a seed of doubt in your mind. To make you less likely to regard them as heroes or martyrs. To be reluctant to appear as their defender in case even more damning charges come out.

It's also to derail the discussion -- so that, for example, people are talking about whether Edward Snowden is a narcissistic attention-seeker instead of the content of his allegations. Or at the very least, it's to make you "want to run the opposite way screaming," with the result that you tune out on what has come to seem an unpleasant and pointless controversy.

Propaganda has many aspects, and the whole winning hearts and minds thing is only one minor category.

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The government figured out sockpuppet managment but not "persona management". [View all] Catherina Jul 2013 OP

k&r for exposure. This is very important. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #1

Thanks. The credit goes to Yurbud. It is very very important. Catherina Jul 2013 #2

k&r Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #3

Who are the they you refer to? Ah you fixed it! hootinholler Jul 2013 #4

I'm in no position to list names but I know my ignore list here covers some of them Catherina Jul 2013 #5

Top People is the author's term hootinholler Jul 2013 #10

I'm not sure about it becoming more difficult to recognize them. Not to disagree totally as you sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #263

The usual suspects aren't these sorts of personas hootinholler Jul 2013 #273

want me to name the obvious ones? backwoodsbob Jul 2013 #18

fuck it backwoodsbob Jul 2013 #19

G4A is gone. hootinholler Jul 2013 #28

G4A is gone? Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #87

Why yes, he is hootinholler Jul 2013 #98

Do tell. East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #282

No clue, I'm not a host. hootinholler Jul 2013 #283

"I have in my hands a LIST of ...." JoePhilly Jul 2013 #156

LOL! nt SunSeeker Jul 2013 #201

And SHOCKINGLY, 3-3 verdict to leave it. Number23 Jul 2013 #233

I'd vote leave it ... A post that stupid ... JoePhilly Jul 2013 #239

You shouldn't be picking names at randome. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #189

This message was self-deleted by its author SunSeeker Jul 2013 #195

not gonna happen but deserves a duzy..nt xiamiam Jul 2013 #197

I was thinkingabout doing the same thing, OnyxCollie Jul 2013 #257

!!!!! bvar22 Jul 2013 #289

Bing. morningfog Sep 2013 #296

LOL Th1onein Jul 2013 #220

You forgot. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #246

Ding! Capt. Obvious Jul 2013 #251

I thought you left. CreekDog Jul 2013 #256

welcome back..du is swinging back xiamiam Jul 2013 #196

I can't see any of them lol. Catherina Jul 2013 #236

The issue is, they are blocked on an individual basis PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #42

Report them? The most prolific ones were protected for years Catherina Jul 2013 #59

I also think the jury system was an improvement. LuvNewcastle Jul 2013 #96

I noticed that too. Along with the discontent of the old protected class Catherina Jul 2013 #99

almost every jury i've served on is someone complaining about something ridiculous xiamiam Jul 2013 #199

You notice how they're the ones who wail the loudest about hurt feelings? backscatter712 Jul 2013 #192

I'm particularly impressed when they JoeyT Jul 2013 #205

you have a way with words, JoeyT!!! Skittles Jul 2013 #213

Indicators of persona management would be rapid climbs in post counts and clustering by a group leveymg Jul 2013 #6

And they only have circular links to back up their talking points Catherina Jul 2013 #9

there's a reason for managed personas to use managed links... nashville_brook Jul 2013 #61

Ah yes, the blind post of links. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #90

Oh haha lol. I never thought of that but it makes perfect sense. Catherina Jul 2013 #101

This is very interesting. woo me with science Jul 2013 #202

They also have maps! backscatter712 Jul 2013 #207

I would say it depends hootinholler Jul 2013 #14

DU is the stuff of a thousand doctoral dissertations. leveymg Jul 2013 #21

Well I would need to get a degree of some sort hootinholler Jul 2013 #31

That much was already happening after the 2004 election starroute Jul 2013 #35

We saw a crew of professional crisis managers here after the Fukushima disaster. leveymg Jul 2013 #45

And they will not be able to answer sophisticated questions. bemildred Jul 2013 #119

omg -- that's such a good analogy. nashville_brook Jul 2013 #122

An example of the idea: bemildred Jul 2013 #127

That one made no sense. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #151

Thanks. I used to like to wallow in this stuff. bemildred Jul 2013 #152

Dang. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #160

It is not at all new, actually. Ramped up a bit. nt bemildred Jul 2013 #161

That's a classic Catherina Jul 2013 #169

Ordinary people talk just like that. So does the media, all the time. bemildred Jul 2013 #172

I'll remember your advice and astute observations Catherina Jul 2013 #186

It's not a trick, it's a test. An ersatz Turing test. bemildred Jul 2013 #191

The thing to notice is none of my questions got a responsive answer. bemildred Jul 2013 #200

Thank you for that. zeemike Sep 2013 #298

"canned responses and paste-ups" is the first giveaway. Catherina Jul 2013 #154

Please see the second link I posted (#152). nt bemildred Jul 2013 #158

Wow ... Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #211

Blatant is what is easy and safe to do. Subtle is what they can't do. bemildred Jul 2013 #240

please, tell me more Warren DeMontague Jul 2013 #181

And typos will be a problem, missing spaces, misspellings, webisms, mispelled webisms , slang .. bemildred Jul 2013 #185

That is why certain memes are so valuable to them and are so often employed truedelphi Jun 2014 #304

Yes, ambiguity in all its forms is rejected, it's black-n-white all the way. bemildred Jun 2014 #305

A prominent poster who was also a mod once admonished me for Lydia Leftcoast Jul 2013 #265

We've all had our encounters with packs of feral cats. ;-) leveymg Jul 2013 #271

Yes, my apologies, I post so quickly that sometimes it takes me a while to see something is unclear Catherina Jul 2013 #7

No worries. hootinholler Jul 2013 #15

It's mutual, and based solely on rock steady principles. The stuff of lasting relationships Catherina Jul 2013 #33

Who are they? bvar22 Jul 2013 #72

"the first response to an OP" lol! I noticed. They always showup in swarms too Catherina Jul 2013 #94

Damn, Catherina! I noticed this, too, but I never thought it would be something so sneaky. Th1onein Jul 2013 #219

But how do they always manage to be first? starroute Jul 2013 #247

I have thought about the same questions myself. truedelphi Jun 2014 #299

ROFL smilies are the best! snooper2 Jul 2013 #280

Sockpuppets "...hijack the thread, distract with a bunch of irrelevant nonsense..." chimpymustgo Jul 2013 #120

Yes! I just came from one such thread. They disrupt the thread so no Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #131

Well you could do what I do and just put them all on ignore Catherina Jul 2013 #146

+1 NealK Jul 2013 #162

That is flat out not true. I have seen so many posts favorable to Obama that are then swarmed by Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #215

You are right PW sheshe2 Jul 2013 #224

You are right, there are two sides. The one side refuses to discuss issues but only personalities. rhett o rick Jul 2013 #229

PLONK. sibelian Jul 2013 #258

what the plonk is PLONK? Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #259

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Jul 2013 #264

That's you getting dropped onto the iggy list Fumesucker Jul 2013 #270

That's either you being removed from the echo chamber... randome Jul 2013 #272

lol...nt Jesus Malverde Jul 2013 #274

Jun 22, 2010 -- the date of the HB Gary email. might be interesting to examine nashville_brook Jul 2013 #8

Haha lol. It would be interesting indeed Catherina Jul 2013 #12

so glad Kos is finally getting it. nashville_brook Jul 2013 #17

I would love to quit my day job hootinholler Jul 2013 #106

I am an unemployed programmer dreamnightwind Jul 2013 #194

K&R. Propaganda *always* accompanies the rise of authoritarianism. woo me with science Jul 2013 #11

All of it with our money as we lose our homes and jobs Catherina Jul 2013 #13

If investigative journalists were not being surveilled and threatened with felonies, woo me with science Jul 2013 #73

And that is what we are watching happen Enthusiast Jul 2013 #159

Quite right TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #22

Excellent insight: "Propaganda *always* accompanies the rise of authoritarianism." chimpymustgo Jul 2013 #36

Deception accompanies the rise of authoritarianism. cprise Jul 2013 #70

+1 "the establishment's propaganda... its increasingly intended to deceive." woo me with science Jul 2013 #74

There is only ONE party now, WMWS. The corporate party. Th1onein Jul 2013 #221

we used to have words for those who catapaulted the propaganda grasswire Jul 2013 #180

+1 It's a sad comment on our species woo me with science Jul 2013 #244

I've noticed our own little DU gets a veritable little chorus of Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #16

You noticed that too? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #20

sometimes it's not newbies...Brandon Darby strategy nashville_brook Jul 2013 #23

Asshole sleeper cells, in other words. Food for thought. n/t DirkGently Jul 2013 #38

+1 woo me with science Jul 2013 #49

+2 Enthusiast Jul 2013 #164

Darby's pal Lee Stranaham has admitted to something similar starroute Jul 2013 #44

GREAT example!! thank you for posting this!! nashville_brook Jul 2013 #53

+1000000 n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #67

Here's the thread he was talking about, just for historical reference starroute Jul 2013 #143

"So, I had a Democratic Underground account I started a couple of years ago" nashville_brook Jul 2013 #55

This is an example of a manually managed persona hootinholler Jul 2013 #68

precisely -- and as of this month, there's no law against Pentagon propagandizing Americans! nashville_brook Jul 2013 #78

Thanks for that link! hootinholler Jul 2013 #92

this story has REALLY flown under the radar! nashville_brook Jul 2013 #100

This is one fucked up country. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #170

that movie is getting way too real. nashville_brook Jul 2013 #175

+1 woo me with science Jul 2013 #212

I had a post hidden in less than 10 minutes zeemike Jul 2013 #80

Lol, no worries. It happens Catherina Jul 2013 #109

I knew it was not just me zeemike Jul 2013 #121

Hmm, small fish? I beg to differ Catherina Jul 2013 #123

"Kafkaesque anonymous cyber tribunal." So unfair to the infiltrating right-winger. 8( DirkGently Jul 2013 #168

The chess metaphor is excellent, particularly about building expendable personas. leveymg Jul 2013 #128

I'm glad they post here - gives us a handy resource to examine the larger war propaganda machine. leveymg Jul 2013 #24

Who are they though? darkangel218 Jul 2013 #26

Servants of the 1% Hydra Jul 2013 #39

As one of my favorite DUers said zeemike Jul 2013 #89

There are a number of US funded and industry advocacy/PR groups that have a web presence. leveymg Jul 2013 #51

it's been most obvious with industry-supporting personas... nashville_brook Jul 2013 #64

The influx is steady, wars or not. And the numbers will keep increasing woo me with science Jul 2013 #27

I didn't see your post before. DU moves so fast with important posts buried under royal baby love Catherina Jul 2013 #46

I have tried to kick several old, important threads lately. woo me with science Jul 2013 #66

The only answer I have for you is that the money comes from us Catherina Jul 2013 #91

That is a great post. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #83

+100 zeemike Jul 2013 #93

That is an extremely insightful and useful post on many levels. leveymg Jul 2013 #135

"What is happening to it now is, quite frankly, not natural." Skittles Jul 2013 #238

Very astute observations n/t truedelphi Jun 2014 #300

Then they disappear for ages only to reappear at the same time to assault and counterrecommend Catherina Jul 2013 #30

Yep. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #85

Yes! Those are the funniest lol Catherina Jul 2013 #95

You know things are going bad when the "poutrage" meme starts popping. DirkGently Jul 2013 #103

Yep- Poutrage. Ponies. Pearls. Catherina Jul 2013 #133

Some of those "newbies" had accounts opened as far back as 2003, bvar22 Jul 2013 #77

Exactly. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #86

That is *very* interesting. woo me with science Jul 2013 #209

Dang. I missed that one also. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #245

The law needs to catch up with the tech. False advertising DirkGently Jul 2013 #25

CosPlay for the 1% n/t radhika Jul 2013 #29

Before any of us could even imagine such deceptive tactics, we did remark on the similarity of sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #32

spot-on. the term "bots" emerged to describe a brand of insincerity... nashville_brook Jul 2013 #48

Bot, at least to me, implies a crude effort hootinholler Jul 2013 #60

totally agree -- i'm pointing to the use of the term by casual users... nashville_brook Jul 2013 #63

Ah, the same way that Hacker became corrupted hootinholler Jul 2013 #71

eggsactly. nashville_brook Jul 2013 #105

hastings was investigating wht versues blk hackers questionseverything Jul 2013 #198

Shoals of trolls and clots of bots Divernan Jul 2013 #225

If anyone disagrees with you, then you can claim Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #34

no -- but you can take into account their behavior and history nashville_brook Jul 2013 #43

It is reasonably easy to discern good-faith disagreement Maedhros Jul 2013 #112

Yes, I see both kinds here every day I am here. Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #114

Exactly. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #277

Or rest assured they may just be an asshole. morningfog Sep 2013 #297

du rec. xchrom Jul 2013 #37

It's a brave new world agent46 Jul 2013 #40

No... Brave New World had Sex and Soma whttevrr Jul 2013 #50

see post #44 -- yes, they have been used here. nashville_brook Jul 2013 #58

Wow agent46 Jul 2013 #65

BOOKMARKED..... n/t annabanana Jul 2013 #41

K&R. nt DLevine Jul 2013 #47

LOL, the fantasies of some fringe company means it's really happening! MannyGoldstein Jul 2013 #52

You forgot the pom poms, Palin, apple pie and something about vodka Catherina Jul 2013 #62

Oh, they're just mad because they didn't get their unicorn magical thyme Jul 2013 #84

No Manny, everyone who disagrees with you here is a government mole. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #248

Interesting to see the mechanics of these propaganda ventures revealed. Mc Mike Jul 2013 #54

I've just been reading up on this stuff at Project PM starroute Jul 2013 #56

"such software will form a broad programmatic area of military operations" + Smith-Mundt Amendment nashville_brook Jul 2013 #76

I don't see the problem. DirkGently Jul 2013 #81

wouldn't it be cheaper for them to just bomb us for real, in a false flag attack? magical thyme Jul 2013 #88

these sorts of propaganda programs are exactly what drives cynicism wrt attacks on the US nashville_brook Jul 2013 #108

Tax payers probably spend billions Enthusiast Jul 2013 #179

They have our best interests at heart. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #176

Mantech purchased them? Catherina Jul 2013 #148

The usefulness of open forums is coming to a close cprise Jul 2013 #57

Sad, but true. But I would think a few minor restrictions would screen out (most of) the fakes. reformist2 Jul 2013 #69

Thank Goodness! Vanje Jul 2013 #75

Thanks, Catherina, this has been a constant annoyance to so many of us for years Zorra Jul 2013 #79

Could explain a lot here at the "Underground..." villager Jul 2013 #82

But I have a question. Puglover Jul 2013 #97

Well that's what happens when you're so cheap you won't pay for quality labor Catherina Jul 2013 #104

I think the goal, rather than convincing anyone, woo me with science Jul 2013 #113

Exactly! Distraction is often the goal. Maedhros Jul 2013 #116

And "they" have been successful. bvar22 Jul 2013 #206

Bingo! Th1onein Jul 2013 #222

The purpose of disinfo is to muddy things up, not to convince starroute Jul 2013 #115

Yes! To derail and to muddy, not to convince Catherina Jul 2013 #125

Very good! Enthusiast Jul 2013 #184

It seems TPTB have Enthusiast Jul 2013 #182

Heh RobertEarl Jul 2013 #102

Could you expand on how they may have gamed the jury system? Maedhros Jul 2013 #118

Via software hacking? RobertEarl Jul 2013 #126

I think they are gaming the juries. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #210

This is absolutely hilarious. Scurrilous Jul 2013 #107

You're welcome. Catherina Jul 2013 #117

She saved the PM. Scurrilous Jul 2013 #132

Oh gawd, now you're just as lost as I thought Catherina Jul 2013 #138

Awkward... whttevrr Jul 2013 #140

Long story... Scurrilous Jul 2013 #144

So you're the one that was the subject of an ATA whine! You should know that Skinner himself has Number23 Jul 2013 #292

Check your inbox. Scurrilous Jul 2013 #294

Nailed it... SidDithers Jul 2013 #137

Indeed Capt. Obvious Jul 2013 #278

K&R idwiyo Jul 2013 #110

ah! almost forgot...and then there's those who are real people nashville_brook Jul 2013 #111

the CEO of HBGary has stinky socks Generic Other Jul 2013 #124

�I need to focus on taking care of my family and rebuilding my reputation,� Catherina Jul 2013 #129

Oooh look, Booz Allen named here too Generic Other Jul 2013 #134

Yeah, but it's just a SIMs family. Mc Mike Jul 2013 #241

Do we see this on DU? I suspect so. But who knows? JDPriestly Jul 2013 #130

see post #44. nashville_brook Jul 2013 #174

I think it is everywhere. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #188

K&R!! Pro surveillance state felix_numinous Jul 2013 #136

My tinfoil hat needs another layer or two after reading this thread Fumesucker Jul 2013 #139

I stole it from Yurbud, as noted in the OP Catherina Jul 2013 #142

K&R'd, bookmarked, & quoted elsewhere -- snot Jul 2013 #141

There is ample evidence that this ... 99Forever Jul 2013 #145

At some point the bulk internet surveillance is going to get corrupted Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #147

IP addresses : Sockpuppets : Swarms whttevrr Jul 2013 #149

I was thinking of ways that they might implement it, but it really does pose some interesting penultimate Jul 2013 #165

Both of you should read the back-links more thoroughly dreamnightwind Jul 2013 #203

That's crazy to know such a system very likely may exist penultimate Jul 2013 #204

I'd say it clearly already exists dreamnightwind Jul 2013 #208

Wow! nt Zorra Jul 2013 #223

How organized. And who was paying for this? Why we were of course. n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #237

K&R. Segami Jul 2013 #150

kr HiPointDem Jul 2013 #153

And now the thread is complete...nt SidDithers Jul 2013 #157

Yep. joshcryer Jul 2013 #230

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!! nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #290

brad covered this extensively questionseverything Jul 2013 #155

Thanks, I didn't know that. n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #167

someone as well informed as you should read him questionseverything Jul 2013 #171

Thanks. I'll give it a try Catherina Jul 2013 #177

The article was probably written by a sockpuppet. JoePhilly Jul 2013 #163

I'm more of a stocking than a sock. penultimate Jul 2013 #166

I don't like wearing socks. Or much of anything else. But my onboard cam is disabled. Lucky you! freshwest Jul 2013 #216

Snort~ sheshe2 Jul 2013 #226

I looove that picture. I have one with a cat... freshwest Jul 2013 #227

Like this one? sheshe2 Jul 2013 #228

Oh, no, that is much better! I did tell you about the cats reporting to Sirius nightly, didn't I? freshwest Jul 2013 #231

Your petite chat is beautiful. sheshe2 Jul 2013 #232

Welcome to ignore, sheshe2. Th1onein Jul 2013 #235

+1 for this and the cat pics JoePhilly Jul 2013 #242

... sibelian Jul 2013 #260

great post and discussion xiamiam Jul 2013 #173

I didn't know Rahm Emmanuel did 'message management' Catherina Jul 2013 #178

an article by scahill in 2009 on rahms program xiamiam Jul 2013 #190

"Message Discipline"! Catherina Jul 2013 #218

big K and R bbgrunt Jul 2013 #183

That makes a lot of pro-sense! n/t backscatter712 Jul 2013 #187

It is a matter of when, not if. Rex Jul 2013 #193

Kick. Thanks, Catherina. tblue Jul 2013 #214

Have you copped to your discredited Venezualen posts yet? randome Jul 2013 #217

Goodbye, randome. sibelian Jul 2013 #261

So you think Kerry really did threaten Venezuela? randome Jul 2013 #268

Your Op is a Hoot Catherina~ sheshe2 Jul 2013 #234

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #262

I love it when they out themselves like this Lydia Leftcoast Jul 2013 #266

LL, can you please edit or self-delete that remark ucrdem Jul 2013 #269

Results from your alert. bahrbearian Jul 2013 #275

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #284

The thread is almost as illuminating as the OP. Nice work, Cat! LanternWaste Jul 2013 #243

Umm... why are you calling a company "the government"? (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #249

What is fascism? The merger of state and corporate power. n/t backscatter712 Jul 2013 #252

This thread is very useful for id'ing one of two groups: geek tragedy Jul 2013 #250

This thread is a who's who of who is who. great white snark Jul 2013 #254

. geek tragedy Jul 2013 #255

I'm beginning to agree with you! flamingdem Jul 2013 #281

Not only that, but the theme of this thread is exceptional for getting Skinner himself Number23 Jul 2013 #293

K&R nt TBF Jul 2013 #253

HB Gary always had the look and feel of a limited hangout ucrdem Jul 2013 #267

maybe al queda is using bots. or China Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #285

My guess would be a PMSC, "private military and security company," ucrdem Jul 2013 #286

kick woo me with science Jul 2013 #276

k&r Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #279

No doubt they're using this place as both testing ground and theater of deployment kenny blankenship Jul 2013 #287

Seems like the sockbot squad got in a platoon of reinforcements since this OP was posted. nt Zorra Jul 2013 #288

Kicked & Recommended In_The_Wind Jul 2013 #291

Well, I can see now what that $52 Billion a year is buying US 99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #295

Thank You For Sharing cantbeserious Jun 2014 #301

This post nearly has hundreds of recommendations. Help put it over the top. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #302

Leave HBGary alone!11!!!11 Only "crazy people" think the USG hired them! Pholus Jun 2014 #303