General Discussion

Ms. Toad

(38,100 posts)

224. Have you actually taken any?

Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:03 PM

Jul 2013

I'll stack CS50X against any course I've taken (undergrad at a school which competes with Harvard, and two state university graduate degrees) for anyone who is really interested in being educated. I took the course because my computer science courses were 30 years out of date and I needed to be familiar enough object oriented development to read and understand patents and prior art from the mid 90s to invalidate a patent. I got what I needed from the course early on, but stayed because I found the course enjoyable and worth the effort (15-20 hours per problem set) to update my skills.

That doesn't mean they are all fantastic - but describing MOOCs as failing utterly at educating is not in touch with the reality experienced by many people who have taken them. Some of whom are (or have been ) in the business of educating. (I have taught both at the high school and graduate school, as well as a variety of other settings for about 15 years total.)

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College Professors Are About to Get Really Mad at President Obama [View all] Recursion Jul 2013 OP

Goodbye lecturers and adjunct professors. reformist2 Jul 2013 #1

Is college about the faculty or the students? (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #2

both Vattel Jul 2013 #5

It's only a historical accident that has research done at universities subsidized by students Recursion Jul 2013 #10

so you say Vattel Jul 2013 #14

Well, I did tons of free labor in the lab in grad school Recursion Jul 2013 #15

A lot of excellent research is done at Universities. Vattel Jul 2013 #32

Because it is broke. Or, more to the point, it's making students and their families go broke. Recursion Jul 2013 #35

I am in favor of reducing the cost of education. Vattel Jul 2013 #40

You know what, if you can't live a modest living on a PH.D. after teaching for eighteen years then nebenaube Jul 2013 #63

bull. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #75

This message was self-deleted by its author HiPointDem Jul 2013 #89

it's not a historical 'accident' at all. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #90

These days? Neither. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2013 #9

A university is primarily invested in research. It's secondary mission is education. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #81

*some* universities. others aren't research institutions, primarily. units of higher education HiPointDem Jul 2013 #91

goodbye about half of our colleges and universities, and their staff. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #74

Again, is it about the students or the faculty? Recursion Jul 2013 #137

you don't know what you're talking about. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #142

What a substantive, cogent reply Recursion Jul 2013 #145

to an equally substantive, cogent comment. chait has no 'argument'. he has only an opinion, HiPointDem Jul 2013 #146

It does require a practitioner community. It doesn't require being in the same room as them. Recursion Jul 2013 #152

you don't even understand what practitioner community means. students are part of that HiPointDem Jul 2013 #201

You have a laughably naive view of MOOCs Recursion Jul 2013 #213

and you are deliberately spreading false information HiPointDem Jul 2013 #218

Having been an adjunct Shivering Jemmy Jul 2013 #189

First they came for....well fuck, they're just gonna get everyone! leftstreet Jul 2013 #3

And we should get rid of mechanical wheat-threshers, too. All those farmhands lost their jobs (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #4

The farmhands should share in the profits leftstreet Jul 2013 #7

They absolutely should. That's what the minimum income is Recursion Jul 2013 #11

They should have but industrialism happened. joshcryer Jul 2013 #100

Bingo. We still have industrial age colleges Recursion Jul 2013 #138

such a stupid comment. the professed point of freeing people from manual labor was so they HiPointDem Jul 2013 #79

I don't think the purpose of higher education is job training Recursion Jul 2013 #147

yes, job training is indeed one of the purposes of higher education, and always has been. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #149

Certainly not "always"; the original purpose was religious Recursion Jul 2013 #150

"the original purpose was religious" is a vague statement that obscures the reality; it was the HiPointDem Jul 2013 #154

"and always will" joshcryer Jul 2013 #168

Exactly. tblue Jul 2013 #61

and they'll get an even shorter end with moocs. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #80

Have you ever tried MIT's Open Courseware? Recursion Jul 2013 #155

You should try some MOOCs Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #172

They've only been talking about this for the past 30 years. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #6

As if critical thinking isn't low enough in this country. Lets lower the bar some more. nt adirondacker Jul 2013 #8

Well, expensive face-to-face classes don't seem to be helping much Recursion Jul 2013 #12

I went to a state liberal arts college where seminar/debate was a mandatory part of adirondacker Jul 2013 #17

I went to a tiny liberal arts college that was entirely discussion-based Recursion Jul 2013 #19

I actually think smaller colleges are part of the solution. There should be no reason adirondacker Jul 2013 #36

I got a degree because I wanted to learn what I learned. People shouldn't need a degree to get a job Recursion Jul 2013 #37

I think that diminshes what a degree actually is supposed to represent. I know plenty of good test adirondacker Jul 2013 #42

If you don't want the name "degree" attached to it, call it something else Recursion Jul 2013 #43

I agree with where you went with that, but what happened with vocational training? Don't they adirondacker Jul 2013 #48

oh, they'll still pay plenty. the only difference will be that they'll pay it to the gates-google- HiPointDem Jul 2013 #77

No; MIT, Harvard, and CMU do it for free Recursion Jul 2013 #139

lol. not for credit, they won't. and for credit is where they're aiming. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #143

Yes, they will be free for credit once they get accrediting boards agree Recursion Jul 2013 #148

it's a sin to lie, you know. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #151

So stop lying. Harvard and MIT have been very clear about this Recursion Jul 2013 #153

oh baloney. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #162

"The first five"? MIT offers every course in its UG catalog for free right now. (nt) Recursion Jul 2013 #164

there is no degree, and no credit. if you want credit a/o a degree you will pay. it will never HiPointDem Jul 2013 #167

There will be, and it will still be free Recursion Jul 2013 #169

show me where mit is going to make their degrees free. show me where they are offering free HiPointDem Jul 2013 #171

That's the entire explicit point of open courseware Recursion Jul 2013 #176

If OCW becomes accredited, the whole artificial scarcity of credits goes out the window. joshcryer Jul 2013 #180

if it's so 'explicit,' where is the explicit statement, recursion? quit blowing smoke. your links HiPointDem Jul 2013 #187

+1, a edX credit is going to be more valuable than a college level credit. joshcryer Jul 2013 #173

More value placed on the degree and credit than the knowledge. joshcryer Jul 2013 #170

I'd like a link to Harvard's statements Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #177

EdX being free is the whole point Recursion Jul 2013 #178

Not quite. Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #181

again, a link which doesn't address your claim. stop blowing smoke. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #220

Where will the funding for them come from? muriel_volestrangler Jul 2013 #183

Actually - that is not entirely clear. Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #175

Obviously they will want to charge for credits and degrees. joshcryer Jul 2013 #179

I was responding to the person who is insisting Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #182

I don't know if your certificate is accredited. joshcryer Jul 2013 #185

It isn't accredited. Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #192

Saw your post #181. That sucks. joshcryer Jul 2013 #195

I think they're still trying to figure out a good business model. Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #223

Are you joking? Face to face courses are the last bastion of proper education. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #83

I have taken a few coursea classes the past year Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #101

My undergrad faculty were just there to keep discussions on track Recursion Jul 2013 #144

I learned a lot in my online courses as well. kickitup Jul 2013 #215

The reason that college tuition has risen is NOT instructional costs. It is primarily three things: leveymg Jul 2013 #13

I've seen several analyses, all of which make points Recursion Jul 2013 #16

It's actually a similar problem to housing - declining interest rates have inflated prices. reformist2 Jul 2013 #18

My grad school had a pool with a lazy river. A LAZY ****ING RIVER Recursion Jul 2013 #22

LOL! Did you at least get to use it? :) reformist2 Jul 2013 #26

Hell yes. I brought my pool noodle every Saturday and floated while pondering stochastic processes Recursion Jul 2013 #27

Too funny. Maybe the colleges of the future will have waterslides and rollercoasters. reformist2 Jul 2013 #34

. BadgerKid Jul 2013 #44

Nice! Glad you made use of it. adirondacker Jul 2013 #45

For some reason I thought you were talking of the Ramen variety. joshcryer Jul 2013 #128

Instructional and university salaries have not even kept up with inflation. leveymg Jul 2013 #59

This message was self-deleted by its author HiPointDem Jul 2013 #82

bullshit. what part of the payroll, recursion? high-paid useless administrators. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #85

And they build waterslides and lazy rivers and alumni houses and football stadiums Recursion Jul 2013 #156

yes, the useless administrators do indeed build waterslides, and they do it *in order to* HiPointDem Jul 2013 #159

and big increases in administrative overhead. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #78

"...big increases in administrative overhead." KansDem Jul 2013 #165

I get the difference customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #20

That's what I was thinking: do it for the 101 and 201 classes Recursion Jul 2013 #23

Absolutely customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #31

doubtful since most of those large lecture classes were taught by the grad students who also HiPointDem Jul 2013 #92

Let the employer decide if they want a real graduate or a MOOC graduate. n-t Logical Jul 2013 #21

I've rarely considered education when I've had input in hiring Recursion Jul 2013 #24

I agree, I am a programmer...... Logical Jul 2013 #30

Right. I've seen ads for web developers that ask for a BS in CS Recursion Jul 2013 #38

I also think some people, no matter how much school, just can't code a lick. Either because.... Logical Jul 2013 #39

Very true. My hiring "quiz" usually has two parts Recursion Jul 2013 #190

Love that emphasis on pattern recognition and searching. joshcryer Jul 2013 #198

A BS in CS should mean that. joshcryer Jul 2013 #207

I think the overlooked question here is what does a degree mean, and what petronius Jul 2013 #25

I agree with Chait that a MOOC isn't particularly different from a large lecture session Recursion Jul 2013 #33

You've said a lot of things I wish I could have said as well. eppur_se_muova Jul 2013 #62

Agreed, 'training' is not 'education'... n/t nebenaube Jul 2013 #65

"those ridiculous online training activities that are common in the corporate and academic world" HiPointDem Jul 2013 #87

The door has been opened for competency based degrees vs credit hours aikoaiko Jul 2013 #28

Some college professors are... Egnever Jul 2013 #29

While I question his motivation, he is absolutely correct. The author of this piece fails to Egalitarian Thug Jul 2013 #41

So let people get an all- or mostly-MOOC AA or AS Recursion Jul 2013 #46

if it's needless, then we don't need moocs either. if qualification inflation is the real problem, HiPointDem Jul 2013 #93

You're conflating two issues Recursion Jul 2013 #157

i'm not the one who brought up 'needless' degrees, you did. so in fact it's you doing any HiPointDem Jul 2013 #161

There have been inroads into computerized testing. BadgerKid Jul 2013 #47

we can outsource obama's job and save millions as well. or any president for that matter nt msongs Jul 2013 #49

A good paper about Physics MOOCs from Georgia Tech Pholus Jul 2013 #50

Unless you have someone willing to tutor/support you exboyfil Jul 2013 #56

It is the personal contact that makes the difference. Pholus Jul 2013 #134

no more likely to watch something less rigorous. college is not a video game. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #95

You remove the necessary intellectual challenge of true education with this technique. Pholus Jul 2013 #135

I think participation rates are a cost-benefit thing. joshcryer Jul 2013 #102

I can see some use for MOOC's. Pholus Jul 2013 #141

I think back in forth in college level classes is misstated. joshcryer Jul 2013 #204

Glad I don't have your experience... Pholus Jul 2013 #214

"then you've wasted your educational dollars" joshcryer Jul 2013 #225

Huh. In my experience they're better for STEM than humanities Recursion Jul 2013 #158

It's basically DIY education. If that's what they're offering, tuition ought to be $300 a year. reformist2 Jul 2013 #196

Any objection is rubbish. David__77 Jul 2013 #51

the object is to eliminate real college for a large part of the population. any claim that moocs HiPointDem Jul 2013 #94

This is a special case exboyfil Jul 2013 #52

I'm OK if Drs make less, not OK about nurses making less on point Jul 2013 #53

From $80 to $100K for an undergraduate degree exboyfil Jul 2013 #58

Going forward we should subsidize the education so this expense is not there - like other countries on point Jul 2013 #103

If you can't think of a reason in principle enlightenment Jul 2013 #54

i doubt that one has thought of them at all. the point is to support the administration. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #96

A college education isn't about the presentation of information, wickerwoman Jul 2013 #55

Well, enjoy. Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #57

Given MOOC track records, kiva Jul 2013 #60

The federal government needs to man up and spend the freakin money to fund education. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #64

Great idea! DeSwiss Jul 2013 #66

Thank you. a la izquierda Jul 2013 #129

What is truly sad is that this is an out moded means of leaning: Lecture emsimon33 Jul 2013 #67

Thank you. This is one of the biggest problems with our education system right now. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #68

i guess i`m old fashioned madrchsod Jul 2013 #69

you are not the only one who is old fashioned. There are many of us who want the government to liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #71

There are a bunch of free on line courses out there.... WCGreen Jul 2013 #70

I took a couple of online courses. I read some and took a few multiple choice tests. That was the liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #72

It's great for guys like me who are forced to stay close to home WCGreen Jul 2013 #73

Online classes should definitely be an option and they are. I'm glad you have the option and liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #76

Then you didn't engage with the course. Don't feel bad; plenty of students don't engage in person Recursion Jul 2013 #160

Thank you. kickitup Jul 2013 #216

the research also shows that the overwhelming majority of people who start moocs never go HiPointDem Jul 2013 #221

Tuition has increased because universities have seen massive cuts in public funding. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #84

exactly. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #86

The idea that academics live cushy, lavish lives is a right-wing meme. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #88

Online education should offer students the same opportunities as personal education. alp227 Jul 2013 #97

Let's just computerize everything and get rid of those pesky people. highprincipleswork Jul 2013 #98

Yikes. Nerve. Hit. joshcryer Jul 2013 #99

There are many ways to gauge agency and level of education is one of them. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #105

Under the current model education is the primary gauge, imo. joshcryer Jul 2013 #106

Obtaining a PhD in physics is a legitimation of your knowledge of physics. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #108

Oh, fair enough, for PhDs, which is beyond MOOC purpose. joshcryer Jul 2013 #110

So it seems your goal is simply to reduce the overall level of education... Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #112

If student learning subsidizes degree programs, there's something wrong with that. joshcryer Jul 2013 #113

Higher education should be free to anyone who wants to do the work required to get the degree. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #114

I agree. Higher education should be free. joshcryer Jul 2013 #117

I have a problem with MOOCs because they fail utterly at educating. Gravitycollapse Jul 2013 #120

Then what is there to be worried about? joshcryer Jul 2013 #123

No, they don't; I've learned a ton from them Recursion Jul 2013 #166

Have you actually taken any? Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #224

^^^ That. So that. Recursion Jul 2013 #163

So no one here has heard of the hugely successful "Open University"? intaglio Jul 2013 #104

Wow, OU offers accrediation. Impressive. joshcryer Jul 2013 #107

Well, there you go, more useless parasites will be losing their worthless positions Fumesucker Jul 2013 #109

I argue that for profit MOOCs cannot compete with non-profit MOOCs. joshcryer Jul 2013 #111

At this juncture you think actual facts have anything to do with political decisions? Fumesucker Jul 2013 #115

They might but I don't see the people putting up with it. joshcryer Jul 2013 #118

Dire for whom? Fumesucker Jul 2013 #121

The MOOCs? joshcryer Jul 2013 #122

The people pay attention to what the media point at as the next shiny object du jour Fumesucker Jul 2013 #124

I don't think the media can hide or justify a 90% fail rate. joshcryer Jul 2013 #125

Next thing you know Obama will be looking under the Oval Office rug for the 90% failures Fumesucker Jul 2013 #126

You see the irony here, no? joshcryer Jul 2013 #127

I'm not really complaining about anything at all Fumesucker Jul 2013 #131

I'm of a different persuasion. joshcryer Jul 2013 #132

I don't disagree with that, I think a lot of people just aren't interested though Fumesucker Jul 2013 #133

University of Maryland has a great online program. mattclearing Jul 2013 #116

We have already witnessed technology killing newspapers and postal delivery mick063 Jul 2013 #119

what we're actually witnessing is the death of journalism & scholarship, and their replacement HiPointDem Jul 2013 #136

Do you have more or less access to good reporting now than you did 15 years ago? Recursion Jul 2013 #174

that depends on what you label as 'reporting' & as 'access'. every capitalist restructuring HiPointDem Jul 2013 #184

I drink Rock Creek soda. Your city probably has one too. Recursion Jul 2013 #188

FYI poster believes Publishers > authors. joshcryer Jul 2013 #191

oh you individual you. and that's all that really matters, isn't it? that individuals like you HiPointDem Jul 2013 #193

Again: how much reportage? How much music? How many books? Recursion Jul 2013 #194

for the old gatekeepers, new ones, and fewer of them. except that they're pretty much the HiPointDem Jul 2013 #197

I didn't pay Amazon anything Recursion Jul 2013 #199

yes, they took a cut of sales, in other words you paid amazon. so how big was their cut, HiPointDem Jul 2013 #200

See what I mean? joshcryer Jul 2013 #202

Professors aren't making the money from rising tuition. a la izquierda Jul 2013 #130

An interesting read melm00se Jul 2013 #140

Unsustainable is how interventions happen BeyondGeography Jul 2013 #186

A bad idea whose time has come Bragi Jul 2013 #203

I love online classes. I've taken dozens of classes since 2006. AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #205

Higher learning is about to open up for sufrommich Jul 2013 #206

How dare you suggest everyone have equal access to information! joshcryer Jul 2013 #209

MOOCs and/or MOOA... Deuce Jul 2013 #208

Johns Hopkins frowning on MOOCs. joshcryer Jul 2013 #210

don't get me started.... mike_c Jul 2013 #211

LOL. Who do you imagine is profiting from EdX or OCW? Recursion Jul 2013 #212

who do you suppose is using those sorts of MOOCs for credit? mike_c Jul 2013 #217

+1. The hype about 'free' courses is a loss leader strategy. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #222

+1. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #219