General Discussion

randome

(34,845 posts)

25. I said S&G.

Mon Jul 29, 2013, 07:24 PM

Jul 2013

I am not claiming the NSA is sacrosanct. I am not a 'supporter' of the NSA. I believe in going where the evidence leads, no matter what.

But S&G have told us nothing that indicates illegality or abuse.

I don't care about being right or wrong. I want to be accurate and the truth is we know too little about the NSA's inner workings. But the truth also is that we have no evidence that they have done anything illegal or abusive.

The FISA court recently reined them in. That happens every day across the country. It's how the system works.

Now tell me: what is the NSA doing that is illegal or abusive? And don't tell me what some politician 'suspects'. I want evidence.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

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NSA contractors, BOA and Chamber of Commerce caught in plan to smear critics in online forums! [View all] Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 OP

Lately it seems like a campaign here to laugh at idea of paid shills. NoOneMan Jul 2013 #1

Yeah so now all DUers are heroes suffering oppression uhnope Jul 2013 #58

Hmmm...vote? Diego_Native 2012 Jul 2013 #62

Right, blame the victim. bemildred Jul 2013 #79

Right on time marions ghost Jul 2013 #80

spooky agencies would want people to waste time venting in forums uhnope Jul 2013 #116

OK marions ghost Jul 2013 #119

tribalism, check. Juvenile insult, check. Paranoia, check. uhnope Jul 2013 #124

Maybe you need to hang out marions ghost Jul 2013 #132

So what's the value of a point nowadays? WHEN CRABS ROAR Jul 2013 #143

Yes, some people do seem to spend their entire lives here, attacking, mostly the 'left' and sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #85

Absolutely..."Since the internet is being used to do this, KoKo Jul 2013 #90

Smearing and disrupting arikara Jul 2013 #111

Tell us how you really feel! Rebellious Republican Jul 2013 #127

Now he has a liberal bent? burnodo Jul 2013 #2

You're right. This is chilling. Catherina Jul 2013 #3

Their ProPaganda is very evident here. Scuba Jul 2013 #4

A very SENSible comment. Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #29

And here I thought this board was filled with Flaming Dems... backscatter712 Jul 2013 #54

Well, just guessing Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #60

I'd just be dithering at this point. n/t backscatter712 Jul 2013 #64

They have the boards all kittywampus! n/t backscatter712 Jul 2013 #65

Nice callout!!!11 tridim Jul 2013 #81

LOL Capt. Obvious Jul 2013 #110

Oh, that's comedy gold! backscatter712 Jul 2013 #140

Excellent callout!!!11 tridim Jul 2013 #82

Would suggesting some are shill-enablers or sycophants be a "callout" as well? truebrit71 Jul 2013 #99

Prosense, working for the Chamber of Commerce, with her her years of sourced, progressive posts. tridim Jul 2013 #76

I have no idea what you're talking about. Scuba Jul 2013 #77

Uh huh. nt tridim Jul 2013 #78

You really need to take classes in veiled sarcasm Arkana Jul 2013 #120

Don't feed the clowns. ProSense Jul 2013 #88

I remember people viciously defending OperationMindCrime Downtown Hound Jul 2013 #113

Prosense isn't a troll as you just implied. tridim Jul 2013 #115

I actually don't think she is Downtown Hound Jul 2013 #117

Quit Dithering! The Sidtuation is series!!1!1! appal_jack Jul 2013 #83

I arely know wha to say. Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #86

Don't Stubbs yer toe on the Staircase, Freddie. n/t appal_jack Jul 2013 #89

Best argument ever: Claim other people's opinion is "ProPaganda" ProSense Jul 2013 #87

You must have meant to reply to a different post. Scuba Jul 2013 #94

I don't think that particular poster has the good sense to get paid for her efforts Downtown Hound Jul 2013 #112

Gee, what a surprise Warpy Jul 2013 #5

K & R malaise Jul 2013 #6

malaise, the scumbags pointed to here include me flamingdem Jul 2013 #103

No I don't think you're a paid poster malaise Jul 2013 #107

good! flamingdem Jul 2013 #108

Was this posted before your Greenwald OP history was posted? Marr Jul 2013 #142

so the obama bashing is organized? nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #7

Goodbye, arley. sibelian Jul 2013 #9

I will take that as a yes nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #10

Damn! sibelian's been doing a 'Night of the Long Knives' lately! randome Jul 2013 #17

I guess, at least the part sourced in the intelligence community of course. Pholus Jul 2013 #11

Do you seriously not care that we are being manipulated by right wing organizations? last1standing Jul 2013 #13

You are being manipulated? randome Jul 2013 #16

There are some who are definitely trying. last1standing Jul 2013 #19

Did S&G steal anything that shows illegality or abuse by the NSA? randome Jul 2013 #22

Yes, as Wyden, Udall, and nearly half of the House will tell you. last1standing Jul 2013 #24

I said S&G. randome Jul 2013 #25

It's difficult to get "hard evidence" when this administration refuses to release it. last1standing Jul 2013 #27

The very definition of 'whistleblower' is someone who shows evidence of illegality or abuse. randome Jul 2013 #31

I'd be glad to take the discussion of Snowden off the table to focus on the issues. last1standing Jul 2013 #34

Three cheers for finding common ground! randome Jul 2013 #39

Congrats on the new job! last1standing Jul 2013 #52

Perhaps when you do another thread you could ponder the difference between A Simple Game Jul 2013 #55

What, metadata copies? randome Jul 2013 #59

Do you really believe they are collecting all of that data and not at least A Simple Game Jul 2013 #66

'Honestly' believe? Honesty comes from looking at truth. Evidence. Facts. randome Jul 2013 #135

I for one Caretha Jul 2013 #74

Thanks for the kind wishes! randome Jul 2013 #136

"we are being manipulated by right wing organizations" ljm2002 Jul 2013 #139

Can you believe the hypocrisy? treestar Jul 2013 #72

It sounds like Aaron Barr's a a-hole. But sadly, there's been a consulting industry to disrupt struggle4progress Jul 2013 #8

Without the support of people like Glenn WikiLeaks would fold PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #12

I guess we have to ask ourselves: Who has been posting out of context smears? last1standing Jul 2013 #14

B of A and the USCOC, eh? Jack Rabbit Jul 2013 #15

'NSA-related companies'. Some off-the-grid yahoos who wanted to be spies, most likely. randome Jul 2013 #18

You mean like these "off-the-grid" yahoos? Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #28

PRISM, from what we know, relates to foreign communications only. randome Jul 2013 #36

"If anyone has evidence that shows otherwise" Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #46

I does help to read the OP before replying! Rex Jul 2013 #95

I was responding to the characterization of PRISM as an 'massive Internet-mining program'. randome Jul 2013 #137

Well there are the cynical HB Gary types and then the faux naives. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #53

Palintar's software was praised by Joe Biden Progressive dog Jul 2013 #118

You say that like it's a bad thing Fumesucker Jul 2013 #20

Good reminder that corporate tools love to lie about Greenwald. nt/ DirkGently Jul 2013 #21

And ratfuckers love Greenwald and Hamsher. SO EASY to attack the Left from the Left... KittyWampus Jul 2013 #35

Ratfuckers are Nixonians. Nixon would love the NSA. Like you. DirkGently Jul 2013 #57

Anyone proclaiming there are no paid shills posting on DU . . . . . Divernan Jul 2013 #23

Frankly I don't see what can be done. zeemike Jul 2013 #30

Push Skinner to ban the shills. Especially target the high-post-count shills. n/t backscatter712 Jul 2013 #61

How would you know? zeemike Jul 2013 #68

Paid shills. LOL! Ratfuckers (Republicans) parading as Lefties do it for free. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #33

It's now proven that cynical assholes do it for $$$. delrem Jul 2013 #45

DU would be near #1 on their list! delrem Jul 2013 #42

Some of their representatives are probably posting on this thread right now. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #49

Heh. You don't have to say. delrem Jul 2013 #67

plus one questionseverything Jul 2013 #69

I'm with you. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #70

I'm finding.... KoKo Jul 2013 #91

Skinner is in complete denial on the shill problem. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #93

I think he's said "Trash Thread" and "Ignore" are the ways he's given us KoKo Jul 2013 #97

AS opposed to actually getting rid of the ProSHILLS that stink this place up... truebrit71 Jul 2013 #98

Yep. Using ignore just allows the shills to continue to pollute the site. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #100

Indeed.. truebrit71 Jul 2013 #102

If you don't see them...then they don't exist. There's plenty of informative KoKo Jul 2013 #109

Thanks for the tip. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #96

Agree...that some disinfo posts are worth trying to engage in to bring reason. KoKo Jul 2013 #104

It was terrible when Issa was "investigating," Benghazi, read smearing the Obama adminsitration JDPriestly Jul 2013 #121

They have a cadre of them over on the Environment/Energy group, too. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #105

This website is not a Dem charity ...it is a money making enterprise. n/t L0oniX Jul 2013 #63

True....see post #91 for ways to deal with it... KoKo Jul 2013 #92

The paid shills if they exist are attackers from the left treestar Jul 2013 #73

I disagree..they are attackers from the right and centre CLAIMING that "the left" are the ones... truebrit71 Jul 2013 #101

Yep, just like being told you have to wait for good policy. Rex Jul 2013 #125

good post G_j Jul 2013 #84

K&R MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #26

SO Vinny, what about the ratfuckers attacking the Left from the Left? The Libertarian/Greens who KittyWampus Jul 2013 #32

I am not sure any attacks by anyone will "blow up" the party. Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #41

The Third Way Democrats are who these HBGary types are. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #48

I suggest you drop the term 'ratfuckers'. delrem Jul 2013 #50

HEY VINNY- there've already been multiple Libertarian trolls getting tombstones after their threads KittyWampus Jul 2013 #37

You mean like this one... Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #114

I'm sure They Are Doing Everything They Can to Depress Dem Turnout Skraxx Jul 2013 #38

Greenwald's dupes are too dense to figure that out. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #40

Dupes, Suckers or Shills? Skraxx Jul 2013 #44

Obama can put an end to the influence of these companies within his administration JDPriestly Jul 2013 #47

Ugly, ugly, ugly. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #43

I agree completely! Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #56

There's an interesting passage in David Graeber's The Democracy Project starroute Jul 2013 #51

Given revelations the last couple of years....and longer but increasing KoKo Jul 2013 #123

What strikes me is not that they do it, but who "they* are starroute Jul 2013 #133

I don't think it's all RW... KoKo Jul 2013 #145

Why are these people immune from criticism? treestar Jul 2013 #71

K&R and glad you reposted this. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #75

Nah, no money trail there. I am sure they are all innocent and Rex Jul 2013 #106

If there are posters here that you feel are paid disrupters or such, why not put them Flatulo Jul 2013 #122

Funny how you infer the OP is about DU. Rex Jul 2013 #126

Funny indeed. I bet it means something. Flatulo Jul 2013 #128

Paid shills can be useful tools if you understand their M.O. think Jul 2013 #129

If silliness and paranoia paid as well as forum disrupting, there would be fewer Marxists on DU. Flatulo Jul 2013 #130

Great Find!!!!!! K & R! Thanks so much for getting this info out on DU. ~nt 99th_Monkey Jul 2013 #131

Heaven Forbid!! Propaganda V. Propaganda! railsback Jul 2013 #134

I don't think concern for the one denies concern for the other... LanternWaste Jul 2013 #138

Public discourse drives the narrative railsback Jul 2013 #141

K&R marions ghost Jul 2013 #144