The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*

[TheKentuckian]

240. Yeah, we may not be as far apart as one might think as seen from the surface

But there is a gulf. The very existence makes about any accusation that is possible is pretty much reasonable to my mind. More transparency is fine but when you start with willfully less than zero then there is an assumption of bad faith and I am being crazy kind to leave it at that.
Willful betrayal and subversion of the oath to the constitution is no joke to me and because every effort was made to bury the whole deal combined with a pretty damning history of about anything even resembling the admitted practices much less any unsubstantiated claims that might be made.
So to me the government is automatically in a sticky wicket, since there is virtually no reason to believe any such system and practices cannot be abused, the only sane response is to assume they are being abused. If they aren't it might be the first time in human history and even then we are probably waiting for the other shoe to drop.

EVIDENCE???

The evidence I need is what the fuck the government is up to, under what rationale, and how to get a handle on too much power in far too few hands and the burden of proof is on the fuckers that are doing things that always turn out badly not on the people saying they are abusing powers beyond what I believe is by definition abuse that many of our supposed representitives not only admit to but seem to pretty proud about.
Okay, I grant you a few critically horrible court decisions and legislative thuggery but is "we'll make it legal" all we are going to be about? If so then tell me how we don't fail to learn from history on a no brainer?

This is maybe the most clearly written part of the Bill of Rights exactly to prevent even the limited reach of their times from getting out of hand.