General Discussion

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)

154. That is exactly what is not relevant...

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 04:26 PM

Jul 2013

...it really doesn't matter when these things were first revealed.

I don't have a problem with people believing Snowden was wrong to do what he did. People do have different viewpoints on the matter. What chaps my hide, though, is the assertion that we knew about it before so why are we talking about it now?

We are talking about it now because Snowden and Greenwald managed to bring the issue to the forefront. Now it is true, the timing is inconvenient for the present Administration; and it is true, Obama's hands may be somewhat tied on this issue, in that he is both a Democratic President and the first black President. It would be very, very hard for him to try and dismantle a lot of the security apparatus that has been constructed over the years. I get that.

But the bottom line for me is, it's Constitutional, or it's not. I fall into the camp that says it's not, that there has been a severe overreach by the NSA. Getting metadata of all calls, domestic and foreign, is not acceptable to me. So whatever Snowden's motivations are, or Greenwald's motivations are, and whatever hay the right can make and whatever damage this might do to Obama's presidency, are side issues. But again: when it comes to the right making hay, and damage to Obama's presidency, yes I wish it were not so. But that is not reason enough to sweep this under the rug yet again.

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Highlight:

EUGENE ROBINSON: America Should Thank Snowden For Revealing NSA Snooping [View all] Purveyor Jul 2013 OP

Gene Robinson, the newest speedbump under the bus. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #1

Edward Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of news that Tyranny is coming! usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #97

If nothing else: last two paragraphs at link: snappyturtle Jul 2013 #2

What I want to know is why is Clapper still free after lying to the Senate? DeSwiss Jul 2013 #22

Yes, he probably knows way too much and would be more than snappyturtle Jul 2013 #24

Yes, it's that corrupt. delrem Jul 2013 #91

Yes, it is..........nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #99

Not to worry, we have a new system now to make legal anything ILLEGAL they do. sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #137

No need for pesky law changes. Doublethink is here. DeSwiss Jul 2013 #162

Under the bus with him! East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #3

What evidence did S&G provide that shows the NSA operating illegally or abusively? randome Jul 2013 #4

Secret laws, court, and interpretation AllyCat Jul 2013 #13

Too much secrecy, no argument there. Now what evidence did S&G show? randome Jul 2013 #62

That all of our phone conversatons and email data has been collected - truedelphi Jul 2013 #70

This poster posts the same question almost every day Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #94

It is an effective strategy. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #100

Then answer it one more time, if you please. randome Jul 2013 #116

I do not care if you are converted or no. Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #132

You are now trying to make Enthusiast your mommy or daddy - truedelphi Jul 2013 #169

S&G did not produce evidence of that. If they did, please point to it. randome Jul 2013 #109

Why do you need that info, or even care, since you're obviously OK with spying on Americans? nt NorthCarolina Jul 2013 #114

I'll show the acceptable amount of outrage once someone shows me the evidence. randome Jul 2013 #115

To me though, if you are OK with our government spying on its citizens, NorthCarolina Jul 2013 #118

There is no evidence they are spying on American citizens. randome Jul 2013 #120

Grow up! truedelphi Jul 2013 #141

You respond to a request for evidence with no evidence. randome Jul 2013 #158

If you are in grammar school, and unable to read adult news reports, I will gladly truedelphi Jul 2013 #165

Okay, randome... tex-wyo-dem Jul 2013 #96

Those corporations only have our bests interests at heart. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #101

The same can be said for FBI records. CIA records. Your local LE records. randome Jul 2013 #122

Exactly the concerns I have. truedelphi Jul 2013 #168

"what law did they break?" RetroLounge Jul 2013 #107

I'm done wasting my time with folks who won't, don't or are snappyturtle Jul 2013 #36

Reality is that S&G have shown nothing that is illegal or abusive randome Jul 2013 #65

This has been addressed upside down and inside out many times. snappyturtle Jul 2013 #74

"what law did they break?" RetroLounge Jul 2013 #108

So you can't answer that question, I take it. randome Jul 2013 #110

"what law did they break?" RetroLounge Jul 2013 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles Jul 2013 #135

bullshit. you're *against* S&G, against transparency. delrem Jul 2013 #92

Point to the evidence that S&G produced that indicates illegal or abusive activities. randome Jul 2013 #111

Waiting for Prosense to attack Robinson! n-t Logical Jul 2013 #5

Glad I won't get to see it. I shut that one 'off' a few days back. eom Purveyor Jul 2013 #7

The good thing is "that one" can still see you ProSense Jul 2013 #21

I can do that also... malokvale77 Jul 2013 #86

I know it's just so scathing innit it? Puglover Jul 2013 #124

I too keep it in my ignore list. n/t backscatter712 Jul 2013 #27

if I were it, I'd be ashamed to show my hand.. grasswire Jul 2013 #31

If Ever there was a litmus test for true democrats, it is Edward Snowden Demeter Jul 2013 #12

Interesting Andy823 Jul 2013 #33

Democrats support freedom and liberty. Those that have nothing but hatred for Snowden rhett o rick Jul 2013 #93

I am a skeptic. Edward Snowden just smells bad to me Kolesar Jul 2013 #152

"let them be investigated" Enthusiast Jul 2013 #103

True Democrats? Let's start with 'decent human beings' becaue all the name calling, invective Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #128

I agree. bvar22 Jul 2013 #156

+10 RC Jul 2013 #34

You might as well save your breath RC. These folks cannot snappyturtle Jul 2013 #39

Of course Andy823 Jul 2013 #54

.................... Caretha Jul 2013 #72

Apparently Ron Paul invented civil liberties! JoeyT Jul 2013 #75

And what happens when someone you dont like is in the WH with these powers? DJ13 Jul 2013 #79

It's about keeping EITHER side from doing it. nt NorthCarolina Jul 2013 #117

Read my sig, Andy. Your subspecies needs to get off the "President Rand Paul" strawman Doctor_J Jul 2013 #112

I have a question Andy823 Jul 2013 #47

It does not matter what Snowden's or Greenwald's political views are. RC Jul 2013 #90

Thank you Demeter...well said. nt snappyturtle Jul 2013 #37

I couldn't have said it better myself. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #88

Completely agree, Demeter. It's a "tell". Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #129

Didn't you know, Eugene Robinson's a racist! backscatter712 Jul 2013 #18

LOL! n-t Logical Jul 2013 #32

There's that creepy obsession thing. ProSense Jul 2013 #20

c'mon Pro! burnodo Jul 2013 #25

Damn, ProSense Jul 2013 #29

WAIT! I forgot burnodo Jul 2013 #35

LOL! nt snappyturtle Jul 2013 #40

You really think about me a lot, don't you? n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #43

DAMN! burnodo Jul 2013 #44

How much do you think about my comments and what I'll post next? ProSense Jul 2013 #46

Oh, honey, I dream about it every night burnodo Jul 2013 #58

There's little choice about that when... JackRiddler Jul 2013 #50

OMG ProSense Jul 2013 #56

No, I think it would be better if you put me on ignore. JackRiddler Jul 2013 #61

LOL! ProSense Jul 2013 #64

You totally win when you use the ROFL smiley. JackRiddler Jul 2013 #76

You never agree with anyone who does not think Snowden is Satan. Obsession, yes.... Logical Jul 2013 #30

Did you ProSense Jul 2013 #41

You LOVE being the center of attention. Bumping own posts. Posting dozens of links in a thread.... Logical Jul 2013 #49

Apparently, you "LOVE" obsessing over me. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #51

LOL, you are obsessed with yourself. n-t Logical Jul 2013 #52

Says the person who sent me weird PMs. ProSense Jul 2013 #57

Chained CPI, and now Snowden. You are in a slump! LOL! n-t Logical Jul 2013 #60

And yet you're still obsessed. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #66

I will say, you never tire of getting your ass kicked on most topics. n-t Logical Jul 2013 #67

LOL! Whatever helps you feel better about your obsession. ProSense Jul 2013 #68

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #142

"There's that creepy obsession thing."... ljm2002 Jul 2013 #144

I finally caved Capt. Obvious Jul 2013 #121

Too funny lark Jul 2013 #133

K&R MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #6

We should name a medal after him pscot Jul 2013 #8

Credit should be given where it is due, try George Bush talking about this in 2005. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #9

Speaking of sleeping....where where you in 2004? snappyturtle Jul 2013 #45

Did Snowden go a press conference in 2005 and say the records were being examined? Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #84

Gave what information in 2005? I have no idea what Snowden snappyturtle Jul 2013 #87

Well, we can begin again to see if you can understand. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #95

racist, libertarian government hater!.. a real traitor limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #10

I Expect the WORLD will be thanking Snowden Publicly and Frequently Demeter Jul 2013 #11

What a stellar and noble idea. I hope it happens! nt snappyturtle Jul 2013 #48

Obama's not using his, we could give him that one DJ13 Jul 2013 #80

I believe here in the USA, there is a National Association of News Reporter awards truedelphi Jul 2013 #166

HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #14

knr forestpath Jul 2013 #15

It's as if I felt millions heads exploding at once. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #16

With exploded heads they have to figure out how to discredit Mr. Robinson. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #55

K&R - Thank You For Sharing cantbeserious Jul 2013 #17

With apologies to the late Freddie Mercury - bullwinkle428 Jul 2013 #19

K&R DeSwiss Jul 2013 #23

Watch out! burnodo Jul 2013 #26

I do adore being informed!!! DeSwiss Jul 2013 #28

that was nth-dimensional Obama! burnodo Jul 2013 #38

Oh, I think he meant to include contracted-employees as well back then.... DeSwiss Jul 2013 #42

Great find! Thanks. 20score Jul 2013 #59

De nada. DeSwiss Jul 2013 #71

They are not "snooping" treestar Jul 2013 #53

The NSA would never snoop on anyone or lie before congress.... think Jul 2013 #73

Snowden should've been a good spy & just kidnapped someone & tortured them think Jul 2013 #63

It's been tried: DeSwiss Jul 2013 #69

Yes in Italy ,but she fears US prosecution for speaking out not for think Jul 2013 #78

I think she fears being killed. :-| n/t DeSwiss Jul 2013 #81

When I posted that story did you see how fast it was Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #102

Actually..... DeSwiss Jul 2013 #125

I've come to expect that speaking truth to power will always be vilified... MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #77

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #82

Why did you put Eugene's name in caps? ecstatic Jul 2013 #83

Are you really that obtuse... malokvale77 Jul 2013 #89

The really good deal polynomial Jul 2013 #85

K&R Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #98

knr Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #104

Frankly, the govt is the least of your worries. Loss of privacy is the price we pay for living in a spicegal Jul 2013 #105

Eugene is right as always.. but.. DCBob Jul 2013 #106

"The spooks don�t decide how far is too far. We do." hell yeah, too bad we have not control over,. Civilization2 Jul 2013 #113

Jesus H Cracker Capt. Obvious Jul 2013 #119

I'd rather thank PBS' Frontline program from 2007, "Spying on the Home Front" justiceischeap Jul 2013 #123

So is there a statute of limitations... ljm2002 Jul 2013 #145

What IS relevant is that this isn't new information justiceischeap Jul 2013 #150

That is exactly what is not relevant... ljm2002 Jul 2013 #154

I don't disagree with any of your points justiceischeap Jul 2013 #163

du rec. xchrom Jul 2013 #126

Recommend. KoKo Jul 2013 #127

Seems to me... DirtyDawg Jul 2013 #130

My impression is... ljm2002 Jul 2013 #146

BUT BUT BUT... SNOWDEN IS A LIBERTARIAN!! D23MIURG23 Jul 2013 #131

Mr. Robinson is a critical thinker Skittles Jul 2013 #134

God damn it, WE ALREADY KNEW!!! sofa king Jul 2013 #136

What you said... Deb Jul 2013 #139

I'm going to keep harping on this: ljm2002 Jul 2013 #147

It is entirely relevant. sofa king Jul 2013 #148

Nonsense. ljm2002 Jul 2013 #151

Yes, and just how would you dismantle it? sofa king Jul 2013 #155

You ask, "Would you dismantle it"... ljm2002 Jul 2013 #157

You first need to cite evidence of this 'massive surveillance state'. randome Jul 2013 #159

First of all... ljm2002 Jul 2013 #161

Another Bush, Jr. illegality. randome Jul 2013 #167

I couldn't agree more with EUGENE ROBINSON! Hubert Flottz Jul 2013 #138

k&r Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #140

We're gonna need a new bus ... Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #143

... for the sophomoric drama Kolesar Jul 2013 #153

I do thank him tavalon Jul 2013 #149

Interesting. Thank you. GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #160