General Discussion

Xithras

(16,191 posts)

57. It really does depend on which numbers you're looking at

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:50 PM

Jul 2013

The OECD scores put Canada at 5th and the US at 17th overall. If you want to limit it to math and sciences, our performance is abysmal. Even using the PIRLS numbers on reading, I have to ask you a simple question...how is it that Russian children, who learn in schools that operate under educational models that are considered antiquated in the U.S., that receive relatively little funding when compared to the rest of the first world, still manage to consistently outscore the U.S. on tests like that one? The difference is expectations.

I have nothing against teachers. I'm married to one, and taught the computer sciences as an adjunct at local colleges for a decade. Still, anyone who believes that the American educational system isn't dysfunctional either has an investment in the status quo, or isn't paying attention. I'm an ardent opponent of "teaching to the tests", but I do believe that education should be rigorous and thorough from Day 1.

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Holy Mesopotamia Batman: First Grade Common Core Social Studies vocabulary [View all] HiPointDem Jul 2013 OP

I assume 1st Grade is 6 year olds. dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #1

I was 7 in first grade. Neoma Jul 2013 #121

think i was four. loli phabay Jul 2013 #125

buchans prestor john or scott's tales of my grandfather were mine i think loli phabay Jul 2013 #123

My SIL is 9 years old. This is what she does for FUN -- Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2013 #191

holy (wholly) ridiculous is what I think. insane. pukeworthy. cali Jul 2013 #2

Well, I am qualified, LWolf Jul 2013 #144

kick because I HATE this so much cali Jul 2013 #3

"How to crush any incipient love of learning" = the objective... HiPointDem Jul 2013 #5

so gobsmacked by this I have to kick it- again. cali Jul 2013 #4

kids will be tested on this stuff to grade their teachers erodriguez Jul 2013 #6

+1 HiPointDem Jul 2013 #7

That's NCLB in a nutshell. longship Jul 2013 #8

NCLBOT MindPilot Jul 2013 #30

Not just NCLB. LWolf Jul 2013 #146

Nice Orrex Jul 2013 #23

Beyond the fact it seems too advanced mainer Jul 2013 #9

i have no objection to them being taught either. however, i wouldn't teach mesopotamia as HiPointDem Jul 2013 #10

But if you want to teach in chronological order, Mesopotamia must be taught mainer Jul 2013 #11

first of all what's so important about teaching history in choronological order to cali Jul 2013 #14

kids need a global perspective mainer Jul 2013 #24

first they need to learn how to read so that they can gain a global perspective cali Jul 2013 #44

I agree. I learned how to read back in the Late Cretaceous matthews Jul 2013 #63

I absolutely love your post cali Jul 2013 #71

Thank you. Sometimes I think it's hard for people to understand how matthews Jul 2013 #91

I have a brother who hates to read cali Jul 2013 #94

Puff redwitch Jul 2013 #79

I believe you're right. Puff. nt matthews Jul 2013 #84

+1 octoberlib Jul 2013 #42

why do you think you need to teach civilizations in chronological order? that would mean they HiPointDem Jul 2013 #16

"Explain the significance of the Code of Hammurab" cali Jul 2013 #18

i'd bet the 'expected answer' is 'first laws in the world' or something simple like that. still HiPointDem Jul 2013 #19

yep. meaningless. I hate these people and what this shit does to kids cali Jul 2013 #20

These goals enlightenment Jul 2013 #58

wow. so much better. I wish you'd post about this as an op cali Jul 2013 #80

interesting. i see similarities. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #83

Gotta embed some authoritarianism into their little minds right from the git-go MindPilot Jul 2013 #28

History is not generally taught "in order." LWolf Jul 2013 #154

is it remotely appropriate to 5 and 7 year old children? Fuck NO cali Jul 2013 #12

So fuck no to teaching kids about mummies and ancient history? mainer Jul 2013 #25

You appear to need some remedial reading comprehension instruction cali Jul 2013 #27

"shit," "fucking soulless" and "mindless" just wasn't what came to my mind when I saw these words mainer Jul 2013 #29

oh for pity's sake, of course ancient history needn't be soulless cali Jul 2013 #32

So you're reacting to "common core curriculum" as being soulless shit mainer Jul 2013 #34

I didn't force feed anything to my kid cali Jul 2013 #37

My kids were taught some of this in 1st grade and they loved it, retained it and understood it. Pisces Jul 2013 #111

That's still the goal here. vaberella Jul 2013 #72

The words are actually not too advanced for the students. vaberella Jul 2013 #68

'ideally'. however, the ideal world is not the real world. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #85

I teach ESL in NYC. It can work. vaberella Jul 2013 #115

you teach high school. public or charter? neighborhood? HiPointDem Jul 2013 #116

Public, Bronx. I work in High-Need neighborhoods vaberella Jul 2013 #126

that's because there *is* a difference between elementary & high school kids, regardless of HiPointDem Jul 2013 #127

Wow...funny. vaberella Jul 2013 #139

your response seems to have nothing to do with my post. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #186

Wow... vaberella Aug 2013 #187

you can call them whatever you like. public schools don't have a board with a Goldman sachs HiPointDem Aug 2013 #198

Standard 6th grade social studies LWolf Jul 2013 #147

I kind of question why they're being taught all this at such an early age in the first place. reformist2 Jul 2013 #13

How about teaching them to read, to count, to add? cali Jul 2013 #15

Exactly. This story has me interested in what the official NY first-grade curriculum looks like! reformist2 Jul 2013 #17

I realize that kids need to be challenged to learn new things, but this seems extremely Arkansas Granny Jul 2013 #21

1st grade is too early for most of this vocabulary LibertyLover Jul 2013 #22

It is not too early. No vocabulary is truthfully too early for a student. n/t vaberella Jul 2013 #73

of course some vocabulary is too early for a student cali Jul 2013 #77

It's not forcefed. vaberella Jul 2013 #118

how about teaching them to read first? or don't you consider that important? cali Jul 2013 #141

I read them. They're not out of order. vaberella Jul 2013 #149

You're a teacher. I expect you to know that most kids don't know how to read cali Jul 2013 #160

Actually kids should be reading by age 6 or 7. vaberella Aug 2013 #184

Are 1st graders studying 6th grade history? LWolf Jul 2013 #26

That is a very thinly veiled religious curriculum MindPilot Jul 2013 #31

This does seem too advanced for first grade. I was in first grade in (ahem) 1957, and I Nay Jul 2013 #33

I don't think you're far off base cali Jul 2013 #39

Oh, very true. In the end, as I said, it's about money -- part of that is getting rid of Nay Jul 2013 #47

my daughter just finished first grade and did modules on aegypt and ancient china loli phabay Jul 2013 #49

At first this threw me. But this isn't too much, if the kids get into it. Robb Jul 2013 #35

I know four-year-olds who can name all the dinosaurs in a picture book. mainer Jul 2013 #38

sometimes it seems that some kids shows are the best educators out there loli phabay Jul 2013 #51

exactly. n/t vaberella Jul 2013 #75

because it's no different from learning the names of all their dogs. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #88

See Dick. See Jane. See Dick and Jane run... away. GreatCaesarsGhost Jul 2013 #36

All children learn at different rates Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #40

To all of the people crowing about 1st grade being too "early" for this stuff. Xithras Jul 2013 #41

I'm not. Now granted I grew up in a house of books cali Jul 2013 #45

Not reading until the first grade? Xithras Jul 2013 #50

I don't know where your wife teaches but most children do not know cali Jul 2013 #62

What is their socio-economic level? roody Jul 2013 #178

Many children are not started early roody Jul 2013 #179

This does not seem to be correct, at least not in Ontario. I have included a link Nay Jul 2013 #46

I can't comment as to the differences between the Canadian provincial educational systems. Xithras Jul 2013 #52

there is no canadian curriculum, so i don't know how you could make such a claim. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #90

See my link. I posted the Ontario curriculum statements as one example of a Canadian- Nay Jul 2013 #102

i was addressing the other poster's implied claim that 'canada' has a national curriculum. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #104

Oh, sorry, I see that. Yes, I think that other poster has been reading Arne Duncan's crap. nt Nay Jul 2013 #122

the US does not measure near last hfojvt Jul 2013 #48

It really does depend on which numbers you're looking at Xithras Jul 2013 #57

We've started teaching to the lowest common denominator mainer Jul 2013 #60

you were gifted. Most kids aren't you. cali Jul 2013 #65

it definetly in the expectations, the touchy touchy feel good stuff stifles the kids loli phabay Jul 2013 #64

what do you mean by touchy feely? cali Jul 2013 #69

is that why you can't spell definitely? HiPointDem Jul 2013 #97

yeah like spelling really matters on the internet, you know its pretty much the sign of a loser loli phabay Jul 2013 #105

i only spellcheck them when they're ranting about how poorly educated others are. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #106

my education is sufficient for my needs and as i said spelling on the internet who cares loli phabay Jul 2013 #109

you're the one complaining about how poor education based on the results of standardized tests HiPointDem Jul 2013 #114

once again its the internet, totally different different from real life loli phabay Jul 2013 #117

I hate to break this to you but the internet doesn't transform the rules of spelling or cali Jul 2013 #152

lol yeah like there are professional consequences for misspelling a word on DU loli phabay Jul 2013 #158

lol, sweets, but that's not what I said. cali Jul 2013 #163

sloppy works, i just let the fill in crap thing on my kindle mess stuff up loli phabay Jul 2013 #164

you're the one ranting about other people's poor education. i wonder how you would even HiPointDem Aug 2013 #182

lol, as i said on here i do not care about my spelling grammar etc etc loli phabay Aug 2013 #188

it depends on what global test you're looking at, for what year, for what subject. OECD doesn't HiPointDem Jul 2013 #96

That's partially true. LWolf Jul 2013 #162

Lets add one more lesson. Ganja Ninja Jul 2013 #43

Like politics, philosophy, economics and the arts LanternWaste Jul 2013 #55

Homeschooling NewThinkingChance40 Jul 2013 #53

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #194

Yes, they test regularly NewThinkingChance40 Aug 2013 #195

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #196

Apparently Early World Civilizations (TM) were limited to those practicing the Abrahamic religions?? kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #54

+1 roody Jul 2013 #180

Many first graders do not understand roody Jul 2013 #56

but, but, but people in this thread are telling me they should know how to cali Jul 2013 #74

I think that is because they roody Jul 2013 #87

but shouldn't they know that? that's hardly hidden knowledge cali Jul 2013 #89

Ironic you should say that. roody Jul 2013 #113

First Grade: I remember First Grade. MineralMan Jul 2013 #59

You're from the same era I am, and I went to California public schools mainer Jul 2013 #61

I agree with you. Still, my point is that the very things MineralMan Jul 2013 #76

Hello fellow NYC Teacher. I'm High School and I teach ESL although I was ESL/Global. vaberella Jul 2013 #66

The OP should ring a Bell. But you are a teacher in NYC, what do you know? msanthrope Jul 2013 #140

Yup. Throughout the thread. vaberella Jul 2013 #175

Well, if teachers are going to be evaluated, I think it's best if everyone has a common msanthrope Aug 2013 #193

This is pretty close to what my daughter had in first grade. I don't see why the msanthrope Jul 2013 #67

so your kid could do the following by the end of first grade? cali Jul 2013 #78

She could do most of those things by the end of the first grade, with msanthrope Jul 2013 #82

right. and comes from a family who values learning and has that luxury cali Jul 2013 #86

So we should dumb-down standards for those children? I want to read your theory of msanthrope Jul 2013 #92

no. we should teach them to read and to love reading cali Jul 2013 #95

Interestingly, my kid's teacher was able to teach reading right along side msanthrope Jul 2013 #103

interestingly, your kid goes to an elite private school. cali Jul 2013 #107

Well, she's 10, now. "find out what they're interested in and turn them loose." msanthrope Jul 2013 #133

and you bet wrong. why people make silly assumptions is beyond me. cali Jul 2013 #138

Did you homeschool? Because otherwise, your child went to a school where I have no msanthrope Jul 2013 #142

My kid was not homeschooled but he went cali Jul 2013 #148

With the advantages your child had, they would not be able to handle Common Core? msanthrope Jul 2013 #150

I didn't say that, but thank the goddess he wasn't cali Jul 2013 #166

Sounds like my grade 10 History class. Metric System Aug 2013 #183

????????? Good Grief. PUBLIC education? DonRedwood Jul 2013 #70

Some of the words don't fit the narrative of Early World Civilizations Rex Jul 2013 #81

I want them to focus on teaching the kids to read cali Jul 2013 #93

I agree 100% with ya on that. Rex Jul 2013 #131

Remembering my own elementary school education, MineralMan Jul 2013 #98

They also used a different method of teaching when we were both young. Rex Jul 2013 #134

There was standardized testing in elementary school MineralMan Jul 2013 #143

Yes, but teachers were not told by the administration to Rex Jul 2013 #151

Right. They weren't. The testing was used for individual MineralMan Jul 2013 #159

Yes and I am generalizing here to a degree. Rex Jul 2013 #161

It looks like a lot of the vocab comes from a popular woodsprite Jul 2013 #99

If you're making the assumption the standards are too high, I'm going to disagree. Vashta Nerada Jul 2013 #100

yeah, because memorzing information that they have no context for is so much cali Jul 2013 #110

No context? vaberella Jul 2013 #119

no, it's not. cali Jul 2013 #128

Are you a teacher? Vashta Nerada Jul 2013 #157

No, and there are plenty of teachers in this thread saying it's cali Jul 2013 #167

You've wrapped up the dysfunction of our system with that one phrase: LWolf Jul 2013 #170

great post LWolf. That is what I have always tried to teach my son. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #172

It's interesting to note that Robert Marzano, LWolf Jul 2013 #173

What's the big deal. Dick and Jane used those words all the time. yellowcanine Jul 2013 #101

My first grader learned these words in an overview of the 3 main religions. This is an introduction Pisces Jul 2013 #108

I think you need to read what the requirements entail cali Jul 2013 #112

You are correct. Because there is no standardized exam on Global until 10th grade. vaberella Jul 2013 #129

There are standardized tests in 5th grade for social studies which include 'global' questions. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #130

Ah yes--I remember my regent's diploma and regent's scholarship. Aiming high is a good thing. nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #135

Of course not. vaberella Jul 2013 #145

some nyc schools don't even have art, but you think they're making sarcophagi & prayer rugs. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #132

That doesn't mean NYC teachers can't take the initiative to bring them into the classroom. vaberella Jul 2013 #153

gee vaberella, when you're following a scripted curriculum and take weeks off the regular HiPointDem Aug 2013 #181

Don't believe what you're reading. What script?! vaberella Aug 2013 #185

i would forget it, there is an ancient persian saying that fits trying to talk to certain posters loli phabay Aug 2013 #189

That is a major problem. Art, Music and PE are critical components of learning. Pisces Jul 2013 #171

Exactly--my kid saw the same concepts in1st and 3rd grades, and will revisit them again. msanthrope Jul 2013 #137

This is sixth grade vocabulary in Florida. Here, they study world history in 1monster Jul 2013 #120

That will change. Florida is signed on to the Common Core State Standards. vaberella Jul 2013 #155

One must learn to walk before training to run a marathon. 1monster Aug 2013 #190

Check out the ELA standards Nevernose Jul 2013 #124

That's nuts. bluedigger Jul 2013 #136

lol, to true computer games open up the context for a lot of stuff loli phabay Jul 2013 #156

I will be putting my son in private school this year. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #165

mine will go private when they are teens, though my daughter wants to go to switzerland now loli phabay Jul 2013 #168

in a word? Bravo. And fuck race to the top. cali Jul 2013 #169

Well, my first grader knows most of these words, but she Fawke Em Jul 2013 #174

first grade?... really ...first grade? madrchsod Jul 2013 #176

Very Theist. Is it for a religious school or a real school? nt valerief Jul 2013 #177

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #192

Being a daughter of history teachers and (at age 4-6)having gone to UC Berkley classes with parents, haele Aug 2013 #197