General Discussion

Pholus

(4,062 posts)

103. What a prevaricating paragraph!

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 12:56 PM

Aug 2013

"Trumping the Constitution" - a lie, just because the Constitution has not been tested against this type of activity does not mean that it has been ignored. Even if the Constitution has been evaded (not trumped, ffs) then it is possible to have laws and amendments that can control the activity.

1) Why hasn't it been tested again? It's secret, huh. I remember the saying "it's not illegal if you don't get caught" and I guess the NSA did too.

2) "does not mean that it has been ignored" -- Okay, let's open this up to public scrutiny to make sure that is the case. Certainly a secret legal opinion that is still a secret isn't compelling evidence for your statement.

3) "Even if the Constitution has been evaded (not trumped, ffs)" -- Actually I kind of agree with your usage here given that it is same context as saying a criminal evades the law, not trumps the law. Point for you, even if it is simply admitting that the process has been extra-constitutional to date.

4) "then it is possible to have laws and amendments that can control the activity. " Yes, now that that horrible traitor brought all this stuff to the public's attention we can talk about that. Certainly, that wasn't happening before the whistleblower.

"Essentially the conspiracy nuts and the haters of the administration using scare tactics and telling one massive lie after another and far too many people are being fooled by these snake oil salesmen."

The only lies I seem to remember from the last month were things like....

"least untruthful answer

"It is just Metadata"

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3 Shocking Revelations from NSA's Most Terrifying Program Yet [View all] xchrom Aug 2013 OP

More scare-mongering to sell eyeballs. randome Aug 2013 #1

That's just not true ^^ bl968 Aug 2013 #4

+1000 nenagh Aug 2013 #9

I totally agree newfie11 Aug 2013 #16

What shows that they are "gathering every communication they can get their fingers on both foreign" randome Aug 2013 #24

All information to date! Obstinate denial will not make the facts go away,. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #41

Instead of railing at me, why not point me to evidence... randome Aug 2013 #45

I merely point out that logic and reason, coupled with an even cursory look at history,. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #63

What 'big gun'? Every LE agency can abuse their authority. randome Aug 2013 #69

That is my point, why would we want to wait until there is evidence, get rid of the gun! Civilization2 Aug 2013 #74

They used against Verizon customers, like me. I have spoken to Verizon who are trying to deny sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #143

It's not just Verizon GiaGiovanni Aug 2013 #144

I know, but radome implied there was no proof of these allegations. We have verification from sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #147

Oh, gotcha GiaGiovanni Aug 2013 #149

Every single business on Earth will likely comply with a legal warrant. randome Aug 2013 #160

And where was the warrant for them to stalk me and my phone, internet and email habits? sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #170

Crickets... JEB Aug 2013 #174

Business records are not your property. You already know that. randome Aug 2013 #179

Michelle Bachman is not a person I would be quoting around here, in fact anywhere. That sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #181

I asked you and I asked Verizon, 'where is this warrant'? You need to talk to them, they deny sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #182

.... questionseverything Aug 2013 #184

Your premise is that we minions COULD have the evidence needed to prove the lie peacebird Aug 2013 #177

current admin questionseverything Aug 2013 #185

Because you would stand on top of the mountain of evidence and scan the horizon looking for proof. RC Aug 2013 #77

So point. randome Aug 2013 #86

ok mrdmk Aug 2013 #136

Why do pointers always point to their crotch? I've never understood that. randome Aug 2013 #138

Because they watch too many hip hop videos? awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #163

more? bl968 Aug 2013 #51

One is a legal warrant. And metadata records are not 'all communications'. randome Aug 2013 #56

Once upon a time, in a place far, far away... RC Aug 2013 #81

I am pushing no one's 'line'. randome Aug 2013 #87

All you need to do is look down at your feet. The evidence is all around you. RC Aug 2013 #93

You should pick one side of your mouth to talk out of. reusrename Aug 2013 #132

You should comprehend better... ConservativeDemocrat Aug 2013 #154

As you have been told many times now, no one is making that claim. reusrename Aug 2013 #157

It's legal to have the metadata. Why is that so hard to understand? randome Aug 2013 #161

Everything except lying to Congress is considered legal by secret courts. reusrename Aug 2013 #172

Yes you are. DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #168

Please become aware that truedelphi Aug 2013 #119

His purpose is to "catapult the propaganda" rusty fender Aug 2013 #125

true dat,. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #152

Recommend Read of "bl968" KoKo Aug 2013 #55

Rec AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #71

not true ? kardonb Aug 2013 #166

Which "you people" are you referring to? cyberswede Aug 2013 #195

"is to be used" does not mean "only used" Pholus Aug 2013 #7

Foreign communications are not subject to our Constitution. randome Aug 2013 #25

So you agree that domestic communications are then. Pholus Aug 2013 #31

If you tap a suspect's phone, you can't 'unhear' the person on the other end. randome Aug 2013 #32

Yes and the corporate-military petrodollar-right does not think global warming is happening,. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #42

More Denials To Deflect From The Truth cantbeserious Aug 2013 #18

No denials. Questions and postions. Engage if you wish. I can be convinced of anything. randome Aug 2013 #26

randome masoncharest Aug 2013 #186

Yep. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #72

Randome deflections, randome confusion, hueymahl Aug 2013 #34

It's pronounced 'RAN-doh-may'. For future reference. randome Aug 2013 #44

RAN-doh-may pronunciation nt wtmusic Aug 2013 #96

"The security state�s defenders won�t stop lying." Tell me about it! Civilization2 Aug 2013 #38

They are prohibited from using such software on American citizens' data. randome Aug 2013 #43

How about this... bl968 Aug 2013 #46

Plenty of DU telecommunications experts have pointed out this is nothing. randome Aug 2013 #65

Reality disagrees with you LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #49

Software that is used to parse through enormous volumes of foreign communications data. randome Aug 2013 #61

Randome disidoro01 Aug 2013 #101

I do understand that. randome Aug 2013 #105

You don't know? disidoro01 Aug 2013 #106

I don't know the procedures they have in place. I have no idea. randome Aug 2013 #108

Good grief disidoro01 Aug 2013 #111

I do not believe they collect all information on everyone. randome Aug 2013 #124

Evidence? Civilization2 Aug 2013 #153

Engineering drawings, photographs, doctoral thesis, none of that is evidence. reusrename Aug 2013 #158

lol, there are prohibitions of pot smoking, so no one has ever smoked pot? Civilization2 Aug 2013 #50

What 'crushing'? Police battling Occupiers in public parks? randome Aug 2013 #67

There is a long history of CRUSHING dissent in the good ol' US of A,. look into it, I suggest; Civilization2 Aug 2013 #73

NSA does more than hunt for terrorists. randome Aug 2013 #75

Yea, like the US having the A-bomb would be big plus for so many things nolabels Aug 2013 #76

Focus on the OP, please. randome Aug 2013 #89

Not that checks and balance happens but at least it is out in the open nolabels Aug 2013 #118

That's why I think the best thing to come out of the Snowden Affair... randome Aug 2013 #127

With all the phone calls and E-mails, going in and out of the country and Internet RC Aug 2013 #90

A 'known fact', huh? Kindly point me to this fact. And I don't mean another vague fear or allegation randome Aug 2013 #94

Why? You keep ignoring the evidence. RC Aug 2013 #98

Oh, and you may want to look at this LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #57

Right. Evidence that oversight works is evidence that oversight does not work? randome Aug 2013 #62

I fucking give up LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #79

When did you get the idea that all LE agencies operate perfectly? randome Aug 2013 #91

This is how it gets attention. By definition, nothing you can say will be good enough for Randome DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #169

The naivete, she hurts. WinkyDink Aug 2013 #80

We need to see evidence that they are not illegally spying. That's a reasonable request since THEY rhett o rick Aug 2013 #116

I have no idea what Wyden means when he says that. We should know. randome Aug 2013 #128

NSA walks into a bar... KurtNYC Aug 2013 #126

good one,. when they look at everyone as the potential enemy all is possible,. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #155

What makes you think this is prohibited? reusrename Aug 2013 #175

+1 LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #47

I wish I could recommend this post 100,000 times!!! Major Hogwash Aug 2013 #68

The stupid, it is strong with you Cronus Protagonist Aug 2013 #70

It's easy to us prove wrong. Go on Google and do a seach for "B omb" "Te rr orist" Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #88

Probably not a good idea to do at work. Actually, DU is not a good idea at work. randome Aug 2013 #95

Yes it is that simple. Go do it. Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #97

Yeah, about those stories... randome Aug 2013 #176

At this point maybe. Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #183

Are you really that naive? Bake Aug 2013 #107

Hell, no, you don't trust them! randome Aug 2013 #139

Please post something that proves your opinion. sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #141

Nothing prevents LE agencies from abusing their authority. Nothing. randome Aug 2013 #159

Incorrect Lonr Aug 2013 #164

Text of the 4th Amendment Lonr Aug 2013 #165

How many times does this need to be pointed out? randome Aug 2013 #173

EVIDENCE!!1111 SLOBBER!!11! morningfog Aug 2013 #178

K&R for DNI Presenter Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #2

Slide 15: anyone who uses strong encryption = suspect. joshcryer Aug 2013 #3

Correction -- even *more* of a suspect. Pholus Aug 2013 #5

True, true. joshcryer Aug 2013 #6

What we've seen is sufficient.... Pholus Aug 2013 #8

Possibly show how they captured someone. joshcryer Aug 2013 #10

It's cyberwar! Pholus Aug 2013 #12

Indeed it is. joshcryer Aug 2013 #13

"The security state�s defenders won�t stop lying." chimpymustgo Aug 2013 #11

Snowden cries wolf again. nt Progressive dog Aug 2013 #14

Are you saying the slides are made up? joshcryer Aug 2013 #15

The power point slides are real, Progressive dog Aug 2013 #17

Deniers Cry Because The Truth Hurts cantbeserious Aug 2013 #19

Snowden cries wolf again and nobody comes. nt Progressive dog Aug 2013 #20

Deniers Deny Because That's All That Can Be Done cantbeserious Aug 2013 #21

Not believing an airport dweller is not denial, Progressive dog Aug 2013 #22

Denial Is Irrational cantbeserious Aug 2013 #27

"an airport dweller"... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #99

He's been promoted to Moscow Eddie Progressive dog Aug 2013 #100

In which DU user "Progressive dog"... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #104

Snowden's employment history: US Special Forces (2004) KurtNYC Aug 2013 #137

No longer airport dweller, he moved to Moscow itself Progressive dog Aug 2013 #140

Sen Wyden says that Snowden is revealing what he, Wyden could not. Do you think Sen Wyden is lying? rhett o rick Aug 2013 #117

I tried to keep my post short and simple Progressive dog Aug 2013 #120

Do you think that Sen Wyden is a conspiracy theorist? Do you think he is lying when he says that rhett o rick Aug 2013 #123

I believe that the President is telling the truth, Progressive dog Aug 2013 #130

Are Wyden and Conyers lying? sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #191

It's a shame Turbineguy Aug 2013 #23

You think he was sending emails? djean111 Aug 2013 #29

Does anyone seriously believe that internet "privacy" ever existed in the first place? Orrex Aug 2013 #28

Compared to what it was when it became a public venue to today? westerebus Aug 2013 #48

What's my phone number? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #82

Maybe not. But I sure as hell never expected the post office to go matthews Aug 2013 #92

What is missing in this discussion is the idea that they collect everything in ADVANCE, not after on point Aug 2013 #30

Exactly! It is no different than what the FBI used to do . . . hueymahl Aug 2013 #37

Bingo! nt snappyturtle Aug 2013 #39

Except they don't call it *collected* until they need it lol Catherina Aug 2013 #58

Yes I've been saying this since the story broke bobduca Aug 2013 #59

What is also missing in this discussion is how the Republicans abuse this capability to spy on Dems Coyotl Aug 2013 #66

Memory Hole: Republican Staffers Hacked Congressional Servers. mrdmk Aug 2013 #145

Hateful scaremongering intaglio Aug 2013 #33

thank you - even the fact there is such encryption software treestar Aug 2013 #36

LOL LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #54

This from a person who on the evidence of a previous thread intaglio Aug 2013 #109

I wasn't the one trying to make the case on that thread LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #112

this nauseating post contains nothing but false hoods usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #83

and true intaglio Aug 2013 #110

Sadly, they are DU's very own "Limbaugh Brigade" maxrandb Aug 2013 #85

"conspiracy nuts" and "haters of the administration"... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #102

This "conversation" was degraded by a false and misleading misleading OP intaglio Aug 2013 #113

Okay, so your primary concern seems to be... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #114

No, my primary concerns are the falsehoods being peddled by these scammers intaglio Aug 2013 #115

What a prevaricating paragraph! Pholus Aug 2013 #103

OK, have someone take it to court intaglio Aug 2013 #133

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. westerebus Aug 2013 #151

Facile, and something the Lords Resistance Army would applaud. intaglio Aug 2013 #187

I was thinking George Washington. westerebus Aug 2013 #189

Begin and his associates were terrorists intaglio Aug 2013 #190

Seems I've hit a nerve. westerebus Aug 2013 #192

No, not a nerve, just laughter at your ignorance of history intaglio Aug 2013 #193

but your (my) conclusions are correct. westerebus Aug 2013 #194

I think you do overlook the 9th Amendment here. Pholus Aug 2013 #167

"The outrage is long past due". That is the point and demonstrates this whole argument Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #180

Problem with 9A is surely its generality intaglio Aug 2013 #188

Are you afraid that these revelations will shake your trust in the government? rhett o rick Aug 2013 #122

No one is terrified treestar Aug 2013 #35

"The security state�s defenders won�t stop lying" even here on DU MNBrewer Aug 2013 #40

thanks for posting this warrprayer Aug 2013 #52

Boils down to this: Democracy or Tyranny. Octafish Aug 2013 #53

This message was self-deleted by its author mother earth Aug 2013 #60

K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2013 #64

MULTI-millions of us ought to declare one day "E-mail Nothing But 'F*** YOU!' Day." WinkyDink Aug 2013 #78

Trust our government ..LMFAO ..only it's not funny anymore. They lied us into a war. End of story? L0oniX Aug 2013 #84

+ 1. n/t truedelphi Aug 2013 #121

One slight quibble dreamnightwind Aug 2013 #134

Not one defender of these surveillance programs felix_numinous Aug 2013 #129

My spouse and I were watching the excellent movie truedelphi Aug 2013 #131

Very excellent documentary. Blue_In_AK Aug 2013 #142

Yep, and I thought that the woman Scandinavian Cinematographer was truedelphi Aug 2013 #146

I agree. Blue_In_AK Aug 2013 #148

"There is no judicial process to push back." GiaGiovanni Aug 2013 #135

They buried the lede: DeSwiss Aug 2013 #150

"XKeyscore is to be used on foreign suspects only. " Maedhros Aug 2013 #156

knr Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #162

Symbols like crosshairs from Palin�s campaign graphics are a dead giveaway polynomial Aug 2013 #171