General Discussion

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

28. The fact that Whistle Blowers break laws, which generally happens, as in Manning's case, after

Fri Aug 2, 2013, 12:49 PM

Aug 2013

they have reported wrong-doing and are ignored., is a given. Those ignoring the reports of the violations of laws, are also breaking laws. If they did their jobs and acted on the reports of illegal activity, there would be no need for Whistle Blowers. It is BECAUSE of LAW BREAKERS that we have Whistle Blowers.

Eg, Civil Rights Activists broke many laws. Were they doing something wrong? Legal does not equal moral. History is filled with courageous individuals breaking bad laws to correct injustices.

Usually those bad laws are eventually changed. So the question is, would those now defending the LAW have done the same thing during the Civil Rights Movement?

Once it becomes clear that human rights are being violated, it also becomes clear that existing laws are going to be broken in order to end the abuses and substitute bad laws with good laws.

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Highlight:

ACLU: Edward Snowden is a Whistleblower [View all] Catherina Aug 2013 OP

I would for once want to see the ACLU and company shawn703 Aug 2013 #1

That's not the ACLU's job. progressoid Aug 2013 #4

Sure it is shawn703 Aug 2013 #15

The article didn't address the alleged disclosures to China and Russia NuclearDem Aug 2013 #17

But read the article again ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #69

Of course he doesn't meet the US definition of whistleblower NuclearDem Aug 2013 #70

okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #86

No it's not. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #95

Then ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #108

What disclosure to China and russia are you talking about? AppleBottom Aug 2013 #83

The fact that Whistle Blowers break laws, which generally happens, as in Manning's case, after sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #28

Oh sabrina1 tblue Aug 2013 #54

Yes Sabrina..... First thing I was taught in political science 101... Who knew I would be on a blog midnight Aug 2013 #58

Well said. Ash_F Aug 2013 #64

+1000 blackspade Aug 2013 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author totodeinhere Aug 2013 #23

Please give us the details of the "disclosures" that you claim.... bvar22 Aug 2013 #41

Ok press shawn703 Aug 2013 #46

Your failed attempt to Move the Goal Posts has been noted. bvar22 Aug 2013 #48

So you would support such a leak shawn703 Aug 2013 #49

But NewThinkingChance40 Aug 2013 #52

Here you go shawn703 Aug 2013 #56

Your article failed to identify any machines that were actually tergeted? AppleBottom Aug 2013 #101

So is your claim that information released by Snowden is all supposition with no facts? shawn703 Aug 2013 #102

No not really. AppleBottom Aug 2013 #103

Which part do you say is supposition? shawn703 Aug 2013 #105

Which specific IP address and machines again? AppleBottom Aug 2013 #110

Come on now shawn703 Aug 2013 #115

There's a problem when claims lack evidence. AppleBottom Aug 2013 #117

I suspect you're just trolling me at this point shawn703 Aug 2013 #118

It's your claim not mine, I don't need to prove your accusations AppleBottom Aug 2013 #119

Avoiding the question I see. N/T shawn703 Aug 2013 #120

One more time, as ignoring this is high art around here Benton D Struckcheon Aug 2013 #77

Should they wrap it with a bow for you too? :-/ n/t DeSwiss Aug 2013 #63

Or better (worse) ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #68

Snowden is Pootie Poot's boy now. tridim Aug 2013 #2

Ditto! SoapBox Aug 2013 #16

He is an American. former9thward Aug 2013 #20

For all here who've said Russia is "just a stop on the way to South America", 7962 Aug 2013 #35

Russia is just a stop along the way. The aggressiveness of the US has made it morningfog Aug 2013 #92

Ditto and he's a Ruskky now? HangOnKids Aug 2013 #97

I must have missed the part where he surrendered his citizenship. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #18

Wrong. He has the same innate human rights that he has always had and we all have. totodeinhere Aug 2013 #25

Do you really believe Putin is just a politician? tridim Aug 2013 #33

SPLURT. SaveOurDemocracy Aug 2013 #37

So I take it you like Putin? tridim Aug 2013 #40

Fucking Love This Post! HangOnKids Aug 2013 #98

And isn't it sad that American Whistle Blowers feel safer in Russia than here? sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #74

Of course he is. Even a blind possum could see that. Zorra Aug 2013 #3

It's always nice tyo have polls to show who supports what Progressive dog Aug 2013 #8

Link Please ? bahrbearian Aug 2013 #10

Look it up, it's Pew Progressive dog Aug 2013 #45

That is disingenuous propaganda, and a strawman argument. Zorra Aug 2013 #12

He isn't either, that's why a majority Progressive dog Aug 2013 #44

Wow Moscow Eddie Sounds Hot! HangOnKids Aug 2013 #100

Now he's Putin's property Progressive dog Aug 2013 #106

Moscow Eddie and the Whistleblowers will be in the same article as Hanoi Jane and the Protesters! Zorra Aug 2013 #116

If someone calls me up with survey questions about NSA spying MindPilot Aug 2013 #30

Well that would explain it, people who lie on polls. Progressive dog Aug 2013 #43

And this part is important to repeat...from the article KoKo Aug 2013 #5

As soon as they show what is "illegal" I will agree. nt kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #9

Spying on all Americans usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #11

It's as legal as enhanced interrogation. tblue Aug 2013 #21

"the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act...is no more than a trap." bananas Aug 2013 #62

Only because the ACLU is a commie front group working for Putin while simultaneously Dragonfli Aug 2013 #6

You know, I've been a loyal Democrat for a looooong time, bvar22 Aug 2013 #42

No change, the ones who are attacking are still republicans RetroLounge Aug 2013 #112

Du rec. Nt xchrom Aug 2013 #7

They are obvious racists teabaggers who hate Obama usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #13

and, a doodyhead bigtree Aug 2013 #14

I wonder what Russian misdeads he's going to blow the whistle on now. arely staircase Aug 2013 #19

LOL. nt SunSeeker Aug 2013 #22

Don't be ridiculous. He is not in a position to do that. n/t totodeinhere Aug 2013 #24

He has all these skills and experience arely staircase Aug 2013 #26

You forgot your sarcasm tag. n/t totodeinhere Aug 2013 #27

Thank You For Sharing - Very Timely And Appropriate cantbeserious Aug 2013 #29

dear catherina Chaco Dundee Aug 2013 #31

K&R forestpath Aug 2013 #32

Don't agree with the ACLU on this one. NCTraveler Aug 2013 #34

K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2013 #36

No, he's not. Major Hogwash Aug 2013 #38

"In a democracy, the law should never be secret." whttevrr Aug 2013 #39

This is a well written OP explaining the ACLU's reasoning. Uncle Joe Aug 2013 #47

K&R nt Mnemosyne Aug 2013 #50

"... The statutory language of the whistleblower protections requires the disclosure struggle4progress Aug 2013 #51

I guess it's technically "legal" tblue Aug 2013 #53

The Whistleblower Protection Act is unconstitutional? struggle4progress Aug 2013 #79

Oh, now that's just disingenuous. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #80

Excerpt I posted was from CRS report on WPA linked by OP and suggests struggle4progress Aug 2013 #81

Of course it doesn't fall under the definition in the WPA. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #55

It may not fall under WPA, as Snowden didn't follow procedures listed there, struggle4progress Aug 2013 #82

And here is a bit about two of those lawsuits Number23 Aug 2013 #57

Apparently the ACLU doesn't understand that if Bush were president Snowden would be a whistleblower dflprincess Aug 2013 #59

Exactly. I guess ACLU is under the bus now (n/t) bread_and_roses Aug 2013 #66

Mike German knows what he's talking about. This is an important statement. leveymg Aug 2013 #60

K&R. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #61

ooooh my god someone is watch me online? stonecutter357 Aug 2013 #65

IMO, the OP�s conclusion � 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #67

Unethical is a stretch. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #71

No one said anything about disbarment ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #88

By all practical definitions, Snowden is a whistleblower. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #96

"Practical" definitions ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #109

Then there's this sloppy bit: struggle4progress Aug 2013 #78

But everyone is missing the law point ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #89

More precisely, IIRC, it protects Federal employees from such retaliatory action struggle4progress Aug 2013 #91

Federal Contractors ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #107

Good catch, 1SBM! Number23 Aug 2013 #85

But ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #90

No, he isn't ProSense Aug 2013 #72

Twisted logic. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #73

The "twisted logic" is trying to claim Snowden is a whistleblower. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #75

Do you think protestors who don't seek permits beforehand should be considered protestors? NuclearDem Aug 2013 #76

So: is it about Snowden, after all? struggle4progress Aug 2013 #84

For fuck's sake. Snowden's acts, the US efforts to get him, the morningfog Aug 2013 #93

Well, it IS hard to keep up with exactly what "It's not about Snowden" means struggle4progress Aug 2013 #94

So Snowden went to China and not HK? AppleBottom Aug 2013 #99

Get ready for it. NickB79 Aug 2013 #104

Yep I can hear it now. Puglover Aug 2013 #111

Under the bus with the ACLU RetroLounge Aug 2013 #113

The WPA only covers government employees, Progressive dog Aug 2013 #114

I think he did the right thing and that's what's really important. AppleBottom Aug 2013 #121

It might be important to you but not to me. Progressive dog Aug 2013 #122

The ability to determine right and wrong is a human quality and isn't found in a text book AppleBottom Aug 2013 #123

I'm in favor of a government of laws. Progressive dog Aug 2013 #124