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BainsBane

(57,760 posts)
196. No one was from Nazareth?
Sat Aug 3, 2013, 05:23 AM
Aug 2013

No one whose names translates to Jesus in English lived back then. Do you have any concept of how preposterous that sounds?

While there is widespread scholarly agreement on the existence of Jesus, the portraits of Jesus constructed in these quests have often differed from each other, and from the dogmatic image portrayed in the gospel accounts.[1][12][13][14]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus



^ a b c d e f The Quest for the Plausible Jesus: The Question of Criteria by Gerd Theissen and Dagmar Winter (Aug 30, 2002) ISBN 0664225373 page 5
^ a b c d e Jesus Research: An International Perspective (Princeton-Prague Symposia Series on the Historical Jesus) by James H. Charlesworth and Petr Pokorny (Sep 15, 2009) ISBN 0802863531 pages 1-2
^ a b c d Amy-Jill Levine in the The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. 2006 Princeton Univ Press ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 pages 1-2
^ a b Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium by Bart D. Ehrman (Sep 23, 1999) ISBN 0195124731 Oxford Univ Press pages ix-xi
^ Jesus Remembered Volume 1, by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 pp. 125-127
^ Ehrman, Bart. The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings. New York: Oxford University Press, 2003. ISBN 0-19-515462-2, chapters 13, 15
^ a b c d e f g The Jesus Quest: The Third Search for the Jew of Nazareth by Ben Witherington (May 8, 1997) ISBN 0830815449 pages 9-13
^ a b c Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee by Mark Allan Powell (1 Jan 1999) ISBN 0664257038 pages 19-23
^ a b The Historical Jesus of the Gospels by Craig S. Keener (Apr 13, 2012) ISBN 0802868886 page 163
^ a b Jesus in Contemporary Scholarship by Marcus J. Borg (Aug 1, 1994) ISBN 1563380943 pages 4-6
^ a b John P. Meier "Criteria: How do we decide what comes from Jesus?" in The Historical Jesus in Recent Research by James D. G. Dunn and Scot McKnight (Jul 15, 2006) ISBN 1575061007 page 124 "Since in the quest for the historical Jesus almost anything is possible, the function of the criteria is to pass from the merely possible to the really probable, to inspect various probabilities, and to decide which candidate is most probable. Ordinarily the criteria can not hope to do more."
^ a b In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman (who is a secular agnostic) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees" B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged : writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. page 285
^ a b c Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant 2004 ISBN 1898799881 page 200
^ "Historical Jesus, Quest of the." Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. pp 775
^ a b c d e f g h i j k The Cradle, the Cross, and the Crown: An Introduction to the New Testament by Andreas J. Köstenberger, L. Scott Kellum 2009 ISBN 978-0-8054-4365-3 pages 124-125
^ a b c d e f g The Cambridge History of Christianity, Volume 1 by Margaret M. Mitchell and Frances M. Young (Feb 20, 2006) ISBN 0521812399 page 23
^ a b Images of Christ (Academic Paperback) by Stanley E. Porter, Michael A. Hayes and David Tombs (Dec 19, 2004) ISBN 0567044602 T&T Clark page 74
^ a b c d e f g h i j Familiar Stranger: An Introduction to Jesus of Nazereth by Michael James McClymond (Mar 22, 2004) ISBN 0802826806 pages 16-22
^ a b Amy-Jill Levine in The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. Princeton Univ Press ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 page 4: ""There is a consensus of sorts on a basic outline of Jesus' life. Most scholars agree that Jesus was baptized by John, debated with fellow Jews on how best to live according to God's will, engaged in healings and exorcisms, taught in parables, gathered male and female followers in Galilee, went to Jerusalem, and was crucified by Roman soldiers during the governorship of Pontius Pilate"
^ a b Allison, Dale (2009-02). The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing. p. 59. ISBN 978-0-8028-6262-4. Retrieved 2011-Jan-09. "We wield our criteria to get what we want."
^ a b John P. Meier (26 May 2009). A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, Law and Love. Yale University Press. pp. 6–. ISBN 978-0-300-14096-5. Retrieved 27 August 2010.
^ a b Akenson, Donald (1998). Surpassing wonder: the invention of the Bible and the Talmuds. University of Chicago Press. pp. 539–555. ISBN 978-0-226-01073-1. Retrieved 2011-Jan-08. "...The point I shall argue below is that, the agreed evidentiary practices of the historians of Yeshua, despite their best efforts, have not been those of sound historical practice..."
^ a b c d Clive Marsh, "Diverse Agendas at Work in the Jesus Quest" in Handbook for the Study of the Historical Jesus by Tom Holmen and Stanley E. Porter (Jan 12, 2011) ISBN 9004163727 pages 986-1002
^ a b Clive Marsh "Quests of the Historical Jesus in New Historicist Perspective" in Biblical Interpretation Journal Volume 5, Number 4, 1997 , pp. 403-437(35)
^ Georgi, Dieter (1986). The Opponents of Paul in Second Corinthians. Philadelphia, PA: Fortress.
Georgi, Dieter (1991). Theocracy in Paul's Praxis and Theology. Minneapolis, MN: Fortress.
^ a b c d e The Quest for the Plausible Jesus: The Question of Criteria by Gerd Theissen and Dagmar Winter (Aug 30, 2002) ISBN 0664225373 pages 1-6
^ a b c d e f g h i Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 100-120
^ Studying the Historical Jesus: Evaluations of the State of Current Research by Bruce Chilton and Craig A. Evans (Jun 1998) ISBN 9004111425 page 27
^ The Quest for the Plausible Jesus: The Question of Criteria by Gerd Theissen and Dagmar Winter (Aug 30, 2002) ISBN 0664225373 pages 142-143
^ John, Jesus, and History Volume 1 by Paul N. Anderson, Felix Just and Tom Thatcher (Nov 14, 2007) ISBN 1589832930 page 131
^ Jesus and His World by Craig A. Evans (Feb 8, 2013) ISBN 0664239323 pages 4-5 states that no major historian or New Testament scholar follows the minimalist approaches such as those of Robert M. Price
^ a b c d Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee by Mark Allan Powell (1 Jan 1999) ISBN 0664257038 pages 13-18
^ Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 36-37
^ John's Gospel and the History of Biblical Interpretation: Bk. 1 by Sean P. Kealy (Dec 2002) ISBN 077346980X page 426
^ Resurrecting Jesus: The Earliest Christian Tradition and Its Interpreters by Dale C. Allison Jr. (Aug 18, 2005) ISBN 0567029107 pages 1-4
^ The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology by Alan Richardson 1983 ISBN 0664227481 pages 215-216
^ The Historical Jesus and the Final Judgment Sayings in Q by Brian Han Gregg (Jun 30, 2006) ISBN 3161487508 page 29
^ Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 77-78
^ a b Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 28-29
^ a b John, Jesus, and History, Volume 1: Critical Appraisals of Critical Views by Paul N. Anderson, Felix Just and Tom Thatcher (Nov 14, 2007) ISBN 1589832930 page 127
^ a b Robert E. Van Voorst Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence Eerdmans Publishing, 2000. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 pages 2-6
^ Theissen, Gerd and Annette Merz. The historical Jesus: a comprehensive guide. Fortress Press. 1998. translated from German (1996 edition). p. 11
^ The Jesus Quest: The Third Search for the Jew of Nazareth by Ben Witherington (May 8, 1997) ISBN 0830815449 page 77
^ Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee by Mark Allan Powell 1998 ISBN 0-664-25703-8 pages 168–173
^ Robert E. Van Voorst Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence Eerdmans Publishing, 2000. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 16 states: "biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of non-existence of Jesus as effectively refuted"
^ a b c Jesus Remembered by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 page 339 states of baptism and crucifixion that these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent".
^ a b Jesus of Nazareth by Paul Verhoeven (Apr 6, 2010) ISBN 1583229051 page 39
^ Fredriksen, Paula (1988). From Jesus to Christ ISBN 0-300-04864-5 pp. ix-xii
^ Sanders, E.P. (1987). Jesus and Judaism, Fortress Press ISBN 0-8006-2061-5 pp. 1-9
^ John P. Meier, A Marginal Jew, v. 1, ch. 11; also H.H. Ben-Sasson, A History of the Jewish People, Harvard University Press, 1976, ISBN 0-674-39731-2, page 251
^ a b c d Chronicle of Jewish History from the Patriarchs to the 21st Century by Sol Scharfstein and Dorcas Gelabert (Oct 1997) ISBN 0881256064 page 85
^ "Pharisees." Cross, F. L., ed. The Oxford dictionary of the Christian church. New York: Oxford University Press. 2005
^ A Guide Through the New Testament by Celia B. Sinclair (May 1, 1994) ISBN 0664254845 page 21
^ Josephus and the Theologies of Ancient Judaism by Jonathan Klawans (Oct 12, 2012) ISBN 0199928614 Oxford Univ Press page 11
^ Resurrection in the New Testament ISBN 9042912146 by R Bieringer and V Koperski (Nov 1, 2002) page 112
^ Texts and Traditions: A Source Reader for the Study of Second Temple and Rabbinic Judaism by Lawrence H. Schiffman (Nov 1997) ISBN 088125455X pages 269-270
^ Jonathan L. Reed, "Archaeological contributions to the study of Jesus and the Gospels" in The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. Princeton Univ Press 2006 ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 pages 40-47
^ Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: a re-examination of the evidence by Jonathan L. Reed 2002 ISBN 1-56338-394-2 pages xi-xii
^ a b Craig A. Evans (Mar 26, 2012). The Archaeological Evidence For Jesus. The Huffington Post.
^ a b "Jesus Research and Archaeology: A New Perspective" by James H. Charlesworth in Jesus and archaeology edited by James H. Charlesworth 2006 ISBN 0-8028-4880-X pages 11-15
^ a b c d What are they saying about the historical Jesus? by David B. Gowler 2007 ISBN 0-8091-4445-X page 102
^ Craig A. Evans (Mar 16, 2012). Jesus and His World: The Archaeological Evidence. Westminster John Knox Press. ISBN 0-664-23413-5.
^ a b Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: a re-examination of the evidence by Jonathan L. Reed 2002 ISBN 1-56338-394-2 page 18
^ Historical Dictionary of Jesus by Daniel J. Harrington 2010 ISBN 0-8108-7667-1 page 32
^ Studying the historical Jesus: evaluations of the state of current research by Bruce Chilton, Craig A. Evans 1998 ISBN 90-04-11142-5 page 465
^ "Jesus and Capernaum: Archeological and Gospel Stratigraohy" in Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: a re-examination of the evidence' by Jonathan L. Reed 2002 ISBN 1-56338-394-2 page 139-156
^ Jesus and archaeology edited by James H. Charlesworth 2006 ISBN 0-8028-4880-X page 127
^ Who Was Jesus? by Paul Copan and Craig A. Evans 2001 ISBN 0-664-22462-8 page 187
^ a b Jesus: the complete guide by Leslie Houlden 2006 082648011X pages 63-100
^ Teaching Christianity: a world religions approach by Clive Erricker 1987 ISBN 0-7188-2634-5 page 44
^ Joel B. Green, Scot McKnight, I. Howard Marshall, Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (InterVarsity Press, 1992), page 442
^ a b James Barr, Which language did Jesus speak, Bulletin of the John Rylands University Library of Manchester, 1970; 53(1) pages 9–29 [1]
^ a b Handbook to exegesis of the New Testament by Stanley E. Porter 1997 ISBN 90-04-09921-2 pages 110–112
^ Discovering the language of Jesus by Douglas Hamp 2005 ISBN 1-59751-017-3 page 3-4
^ Jesus in history and myth by R. Joseph Hoffmann 1986 ISBN 0-87975-332-3 page 98
^ James Barr's review article Which language did Jesus speak (referenced above) states that Aramaic has the widest support among scholars.
^ a b c d e Jesus Remembered by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 pages 313-315
^ a b Amy-Jill Levine in The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. Princeton Univ Press 2006 ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 page 10
^ Lawrence Schiffman, "Was there a Galilean Halakha?" in Galilee in Late Antiquity (Harvard University Press 1994), pages 143-156
^ Jewish Encyclopedia: Galilee: Characteristics of Galileans: "But it is for their faulty pronunciation that the Galileans are especially remembered: 'ayin and alef, and the gutturals generally, were confounded, no distinction being made between words like '"amar" (= "ḥamor," uss), "ḥamar" (wine), "'amar" (a garment), "emar" (a lamb: 'Er. 53b); therefore Galileans were not permitted to act as readers of public prayers (Meg. 24b)."
^ Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: a re-examination of the evidence, Jonathan L. Reed, (Continuum, 2002), page 55
^ Racializing Jesus: Race, Ideology and the Formation of Modern Biblical Scholarship by Shawn Kelley 2002 ISBN 0-415-28373-6 pages 70-73
^ The Oxford companion to the Bible 1993 ISBN 0-19-504645-5 page 41
^ Making Sense of the New Testament by Craig L. Blomberg 2004 ISBN 0-8010-2747-0 pages 3-4
^ Pontius Pilate: portraits of a Roman governor by Warren Carter 2003 ISBN 0-8146-5113-5 pages 6-9
^ The forging of races: race and scripture in the Protestant Atlantic world by Colin Kidd 2006 ISBN 0-521-79324-6 pages 44-45
^ The forging of races: race and scripture in the Protestant Atlantic world by Colin Kidd 2006 ISBN 0-521-79324-6 page 18
^ The likeness of the king: a prehistory of portraiture in late medieval France by Stephen Perkinson 2009 ISBN 0-226-65879-1 page 30
^ Dickson, John. Jesus: A Short Life, Lion Hudson, 2008, ISBN 0-8254-7802-2,page 47
^ Fiensy, David A.; Jesus the Galilean: soundings in a first century life, Gorgias Press LLC, 2007, ISBN 1-59333-313-7 page 68
^ Fiensy, David A.; Jesus the Galilean: soundings in a first century life, Gorgias Press LLC, 2007, ISBN 1-59333-313-7 pages 74-77
^ Jesus the Jew: a historian's reading of the Gospels by Jeza Vermes 1983 ISBN SBN: 0961614846 page 21
^ Ehrman, Bart D. Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why. HarperCollins, 2005. ISBN 978-0-06-073817-4
^ Crossan, John Dominic. The essential Jesus. Edison: Castle Books. 1998. “Contexts,” p 1-24.
^ Theissen, Gerd and Annette Merz. The historical Jesus: a comprehensive guide. Fortress Press. 1998. translated from German (1996 edition)
^ Sanders terms it a "minor village." Sanders, E. P. The historical figure of Jesus. Penguin, 1993. p. 104
^ Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: A Re-examination of the Evidence by Jonathan L. Reed (May 1, 2002) ISBN 1563383942 pages 131-134
^ Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: A Re-examination of the Evidence by Jonathan L. Reed (May 1, 2002) ISBN 1563383942 pages 114-117
^ a b c The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Q-Z) by Geoffrey W. Bromiley (Jan 31, 1995) ISBN 0802837840 page 50
^ The Gospel of Mark by John R. Donahue and Daniel J., S.J. Harrington (Jan 1, 2002) ISBN 0814659659 pages 60-61
^ Whoever Hears You Hears Me: Prophets, Performance, and Tradition in Q by Richard A. Horsley and Jonathan A. Draper (Nov 1, 1999) ISBN 1563382725 page 127
^ Theissen and Merz 1998, p. 354 (for example, Mark 1.39, 2.25, 12.10; Matt. 12.5, 19.4, 21.16; Luke 4.16; and John 7.15)
^ Funk, Robert W. and the Jesus Seminar. The acts of Jesus: the search for the authentic deeds of Jesus. HarperSanFrancisco. 1998. "What do we really know about Jesus" p. 527-534.
^ Crossan, John Dominic. The essential Jesus. Edison: Castle Books. 1998. p. 147
^ In the The Cambridge Companion to Jesus edited by Markus Bockmuehl (Dec 3, 2001) ISBN 0521796784 page 14
^ In the The Cambridge Companion to Jesus edited by Markus Bockmuehl (Dec 3, 2001) ISBN 0521796784 page 21
^ John Meier, A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus 1991 ISBN 0300140185 page 278
^ a b Crossan, John Dominic (1995). Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography. HarperOne. p. 145. ISBN 0-06-061662-8. "That he was crucified is as sure as anything historical can ever be, since both Josephus and Tacitus...agree with the Christian accounts on at least that basic fact."
^ Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey by Craig L. Blomberg 2009 ISBN 0-8054-4482-3 pages 211-214
^ a b A Brief Introduction to the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman 2008 ISBN 0-19-536934-3 page 136
^ a b John P. Meier "How do we decide what comes from Jesus" in The Historical Jesus in Recent Research by James D. G. Dunn and Scot McKnight 2006 ISBN 1-57506-100-7 pages 126-128 and 132-136
^ Eddy & Boyd (2007) The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition Baker Academic, ISBN 0-8010-3114-1 page 127 states that it is now "firmly established" that there is non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus
^ John P. Meier "How do we decide what comes from Jesus" in

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

In my garage, I have Abraham Lincoln's axe . . . Journeyman Aug 2013 #1
Bah. I have the actual axe he killed vampires with. hunter Aug 2013 #39
LOL B Calm Aug 2013 #199
pieces of the "true cross" have been on sale by the millions for 2K years.. nt msongs Aug 2013 #2
Over the centuries, enough splinters of "the cross" have been sold Greybnk48 Aug 2013 #150
Exactly. Thousands were sold/venerated in the Middle Ages anneboleyn Aug 2013 #175
Yup sakabatou Aug 2013 #206
Did a historical Jesus exist? warrior1 Aug 2013 #3
+1 - the OP's article is a stretch to say the least n/t FreeState Aug 2013 #6
Yes, he existed BainsBane Aug 2013 #7
"Historians agree a man called Jesus of Nazareth lived and was crucified" FreeState Aug 2013 #13
The majority do BainsBane Aug 2013 #17
widespread scholarly agreement from biblical scholars- who study "bible history" Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #125
You could google this warrior1 Aug 2013 #16
Here's the deal BainsBane Aug 2013 #20
they are also saying warrior1 Aug 2013 #25
a separate point BainsBane Aug 2013 #28
it's still made up bs warrior1 Aug 2013 #29
So you think all history is made up BS? BainsBane Aug 2013 #32
I think this story is warrior1 Aug 2013 #43
History- and Science- as conveyed by the Bible are inherently suspect. Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #134
This is the problem with responses in this thread BainsBane Aug 2013 #136
A few things in reply to your well-thought out, cogent post. Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #145
How do you know there is no evidence outside from the Bible? BainsBane Aug 2013 #158
If ALL the evidence is coming from Christianity, which incorporated this narrative into its Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #183
GlassUnion cited Josephus BainsBane Aug 2013 #191
Josephus is invariably referenced because it's the ONLY one. And considered suspect. Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #193
Thanks for the info BainsBane Aug 2013 #194
Those will be biblical scholars. :) idwiyo Aug 2013 #139
I don't think you understand the word "hearsay". Marr Aug 2013 #31
What do you think the gospels are? BainsBane Aug 2013 #35
I'm not wrong, and the gospels are hearsay. Marr Aug 2013 #47
70 years, not 40 years. RC Aug 2013 #52
Jesus supposedly died in 33AD though, I believe. /nt Marr Aug 2013 #57
RC apparently isn't a mathematician, either. Bake Aug 2013 #135
There is a difference between documenting miracles BainsBane Aug 2013 #159
The gospels contradict each other REP Aug 2013 #60
For a historian you certainly chose a poor reference. Wikipedia? dballance Aug 2013 #115
The bible is not a historical document. It contains some real history mixed up kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #182
No serious historian would say that a man named "Jesus" existed. Xithras Aug 2013 #100
Virtually all serious historical scholars of that era agree that a historical Jesus existed. pnwmom Aug 2013 #133
I was being snarky Xithras Aug 2013 #147
I see BainsBane Aug 2013 #168
Yes, they agree someone like that existed. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #113
Julius Caesar wrote 'De Bello Gallico' himself muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #165
Take a few minutes then get back to us boomer55 Aug 2013 #169
Wrong intaglio Aug 2013 #195
No one was from Nazareth? BainsBane Aug 2013 #196
Not at the time intaglio Aug 2013 #198
Interesting. BainsBane Aug 2013 #201
You sir/madam, much like Leopold "Butters" Stotch... whttevrr Aug 2013 #14
Heresy against the church, Butters? Well that does it! NuclearDem Aug 2013 #118
The same could be said of most historical figures of the ancient era. former9thward Aug 2013 #36
There are multiple independent accounts of the existence of Alexander Marr Aug 2013 #55
Please name a physical location where I can see an account of Alexander. former9thward Aug 2013 #97
The Astronomical Diary in the British Museum. Marr Aug 2013 #117
Thanks, that was interesting. former9thward Aug 2013 #148
You bet. Marr Aug 2013 #149
That doesn't mean it's the only one muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #167
This message was self-deleted by its author former9thward Aug 2013 #146
The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold Bryn Aug 2013 #68
I think you mean .... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #114
I see a great debate in the future about the existence of John Lennon... hunter Aug 2013 #72
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #123
"Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that a historical Jesus existed" pnwmom Aug 2013 #132
unless I am mistaken warrprayer Aug 2013 #4
You are mistaken BainsBane Aug 2013 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author sinkingfeeling Aug 2013 #12
Show your work. FiveGoodMen Aug 2013 #46
.... WilliamPitt Aug 2013 #98
..... FiveGoodMen Aug 2013 #108
I was not trying to prove the divinity of the man. WilliamPitt Aug 2013 #109
You pointed to a book that claims he existed FiveGoodMen Aug 2013 #110
That article said the author of the book was inventing aspects of the man, WilliamPitt Aug 2013 #111
If he's inventing any part of it... FiveGoodMen Aug 2013 #112
It's been a while since I beat my wife. WilliamPitt Aug 2013 #124
That's an incredibly worthless response to my post FiveGoodMen Aug 2013 #126
This message was self-deleted by its author WilliamPitt Aug 2013 #122
Here BainsBane Aug 2013 #10
Wikipedia isn't the source . Gerd Theissen is the source. He's a sinkingfeeling Aug 2013 #19
Okay, you are clearly operated on a basis of faith BainsBane Aug 2013 #22
What historians 'agree'? What evidence do they agree upon to prove Jesus existed? sinkingfeeling Aug 2013 #34
Follow the links in the Wikipedia article BainsBane Aug 2013 #37
I have. There are no Roman records documenting anything about Jesus. sinkingfeeling Aug 2013 #41
You've read all those books in this short period of time? BainsBane Aug 2013 #162
What about his contemporaries? notadmblnd Aug 2013 #161
The apostles were his contemporaries BainsBane Aug 2013 #163
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did not write the Gospels notadmblnd Aug 2013 #166
I've long ago exhausted my interest in this subject BainsBane Aug 2013 #170
I asked about his contempoaries writings. You said his Apostles were his contemporaries notadmblnd Aug 2013 #181
This appears to be a good start BainsBane Aug 2013 #40
Really? First one listed is a bunch of essays about using the Gospels, language, sinkingfeeling Aug 2013 #48
Are you actually citing positivism as something to aspire to? BainsBane Aug 2013 #56
No, just belief in evidence. You have provided zero evidence. sinkingfeeling Aug 2013 #74
It's not my job to provide evidence BainsBane Aug 2013 #180
I mean this in the kindest possible way tkmorris Aug 2013 #120
You aren't. There is however, a veritable mountain range of evidence created by and for Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #75
heh FirstLight Aug 2013 #5
Damn post a spoiler alert will ya? hootinholler Aug 2013 #9
I think it'll be about who is gonna carry Ilsa Aug 2013 #157
I think they mean "archaeologists" with the quotation marks, as in kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #11
There is historical evidence that Jesus of Nazareth existed BainsBane Aug 2013 #15
please share your "historical" evidence, thanks nt msongs Aug 2013 #30
(crickets chirping) - There IS none. What they have has been found not reliable or accurate. kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #54
There is no legitimate, verifiable evidence that Jesus existed. There is one kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #53
The question of his existence and being divine are two separate matters BainsBane Aug 2013 #63
Thank you. truebrit71 Aug 2013 #64
I have seen no provable evidence that Jesus existed. However, I think that there was a charismatic, Arkansas Granny Aug 2013 #103
You should probably drop your Cesar arguement. jbond56 Aug 2013 #88
Wow, you sure proved that BainsBane Aug 2013 #90
hahahah jbond56 Aug 2013 #105
... SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #190
In the same way as putting "bloggers" in the same sentence with "journalists"? cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #172
Was it customary to save crosses or pieces of crosses after a crucifixion? KansDem Aug 2013 #18
Stolen, I'd guess. Morning Dew Aug 2013 #23
I recently read something about the men crucified with Jesus BainsBane Aug 2013 #27
The Shroud of Turin has his DNA, correct? RC Aug 2013 #89
Of course not BainsBane Aug 2013 #91
What is? The DNA or the fact the weave being invented well after he died? RC Aug 2013 #93
The DNA BainsBane Aug 2013 #94
Then how can anyone prove the wood came from Jesus's cross? RC Aug 2013 #104
Reza Aslan just stated recently, Romans reserved crucifixion for traitors and rebels Brother Buzz Aug 2013 #140
That's where I heard it BainsBane Aug 2013 #144
I heard historian Reza Aslan, PhD say that only Ilsa Aug 2013 #153
They're all fake and were identified as fake in the Middles Ages Nevernose Aug 2013 #42
reused, I would guess. nt Deep13 Aug 2013 #51
cross were reused and if there were nails they were reused madrchsod Aug 2013 #187
I have a shard of the True Cross! xfundy Aug 2013 #21
ohhhhh you going to get it. lol. okieinpain Aug 2013 #45
Regardless of whether the man existed... KatyMan Aug 2013 #24
This the same one Helena discovered c. 330? Retrograde Aug 2013 #26
Most of the "sacred" sites in Jerusalem were "divined" by Helena egold2604 Aug 2013 #207
Wow.. and I've seen the rock that Mary rested on during her trip to Bethelem! JustFiveMoreMinutes Aug 2013 #33
who comes up with this nonsense? bowens43 Aug 2013 #38
The same ditwits who go off climbing Mt Ararat to "prove" Noah's Ark is up there. Archae Aug 2013 #50
what! it`s not up there! madrchsod Aug 2013 #188
They've been selling this bills hit for 1900 years now Nevernose Aug 2013 #58
all I have to say to you folks talking about no jesus, is you better go okieinpain Aug 2013 #44
One can stack a hundred cords of wood with fragments of the True Cross. nt Deep13 Aug 2013 #49
It's not surprising to hear that people who follow a religion would believe this bunk. Walk away Aug 2013 #59
I hope it is the real thing. It would be a blessing if it was the real cross. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #61
Why and to whom? truebrit71 Aug 2013 #66
It is a blessing to Christians like me and I would be happy if it were real. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #70
Still not sure why it would be a 'blessing'? truebrit71 Aug 2013 #76
If it were a part of the true cross we would have something of our faith to touch with human hands. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #79
Wouldn't that rather be like someone in the Kennedy fmaily snuggling up to a rifle though? truebrit71 Aug 2013 #80
No! Remember we believe Jesus was raised and by his death on the cross we believe we are redeemed. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #82
Right, but I was suggesting that he wouldn't want the reminder... truebrit71 Aug 2013 #83
Personally I don't think he would mind because I believe he is in heaven. But I can not speak for hrmjustin Aug 2013 #86
the concept of martyrdom is key to the faith...... without it, people wouldn't allow others bettyellen Aug 2013 #137
I wonder if, among all the eager Christian pilgrims in history, paying money Aristus Aug 2013 #62
the old saying goes 'there have been enough pieces of the 'True Cross' sold to build Noah's Ark and Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #78
Well, if its for real the DNA testing on it should prove interesting. 1-Old-Man Aug 2013 #65
Seems to me the best they can do is carbon date it BainsBane Aug 2013 #67
Maybe they should try some DNA that "most" historians agree is his... truebrit71 Aug 2013 #81
Sorry to challenge your faith BainsBane Aug 2013 #85
Um, what faith? truebrit71 Aug 2013 #95
Your faith BainsBane Aug 2013 #99
Neither do they use Wikipedia of all things... truebrit71 Aug 2013 #102
Where did you say your PhD is from? eShirl Aug 2013 #185
Yes, they do use DNA muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #200
and where, Pray tell, can that be found? 1-Old-Man Aug 2013 #92
It can't be found, just like the "proof" that he existed at all...that's my point... truebrit71 Aug 2013 #96
This has to be one of the worst examples of journalism (and archaeology). Behind the Aegis Aug 2013 #69
Obviously there is no way something like that could be proven BainsBane Aug 2013 #197
Was it sitting next to the Shroud of Turin and the James Ossuary by chance? opiate69 Aug 2013 #71
The crucifixes of yester-year, are the guns of today Sheepshank Aug 2013 #73
That ain't nuthin' dusty trails Aug 2013 #77
"we have found a holy thing in a chest" boston bean Aug 2013 #84
Because it sounds like a line from Monty Python? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #160
THEY're NEVER gonna give up thinking they have found some onecent Aug 2013 #87
Looked old and rugged -- then it must be the real thing Blue Owl Aug 2013 #101
Well, that would be pretty cool if it was real..... cbdo2007 Aug 2013 #106
So the "fossiles are the work of Satan" theory has been debunked? mick063 Aug 2013 #107
There is no proof he ever existed LittleBlue Aug 2013 #116
I wonder if there are some translation issues with what the archaeologist petronius Aug 2013 #119
You would be hard pressed to find non "Biblical" historians who agree that Jesus objectively existed Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #121
Let me know when they find the sacred "Pipe" of "Bob" Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #127
Or Jesus' hash pipe. It should have drool on it with DNA. tridim Aug 2013 #130
...or THE Holy Colander used to strain the Flying Spaghetti Monster! n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #179
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #184
How on earth would one go about proving that? nyquil_man Aug 2013 #128
Didn't they "find" the ark a few times in the past 20 years? tridim Aug 2013 #129
As a believing Christian I hope that it is genuine. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #131
You should not have apologized. Glassunion Aug 2013 #138
Thanks for your reasoned response BainsBane Aug 2013 #142
It is what it is... Glassunion Aug 2013 #143
There's no evidence outside the gospels. And there were several similar mystery cults at the time. Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #152
Have they carbon-dated it? GiaGiovanni Aug 2013 #141
Fundamentalist creationists don't believe in carbon dating, so won't convince them. Oh, wait- AlinPA Aug 2013 #151
So you don't know the answer? GiaGiovanni Aug 2013 #155
Many Christians do believe in carbon dating. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #164
There's a fun TV show on Ilsa Aug 2013 #154
I see this post kicked up a few thoughts. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #156
A great site to understand the spiritual creation of the myth of Jesus boomer55 Aug 2013 #171
Maybe it was the cross of Brian of Nazareth edbermac Aug 2013 #173
'e's NOT the Messiah!!! cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #174
Aren't there like 20 places in Rome that claim to have the foreskin of Jesus? arcane1 Aug 2013 #176
Helen, mother of Constantine, claimed to have found the cross in the 4th Century Sanity Claws Aug 2013 #177
Call me skeptical... n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #178
slow news day? madrchsod Aug 2013 #186
They can't prove it BainsBane Aug 2013 #192
well here`s islam`s take on the death of christ mystery.... madrchsod Aug 2013 #189
First, we have to establish if there's any wood involved at all, or just stone muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #202
The Romans could hardly have nailed him to a stone BainsBane Aug 2013 #203
Yes, that's my point - the first report is just a stone with a cross on it muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #204
I figured they could tell from the shape or something BainsBane Aug 2013 #205
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