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In reply to the discussion: Archaeologists believe they've found cross of Jesus of Nazareth [View all]BainsBane
(57,760 posts)196. No one was from Nazareth?
No one whose names translates to Jesus in English lived back then. Do you have any concept of how preposterous that sounds?
While there is widespread scholarly agreement on the existence of Jesus, the portraits of Jesus constructed in these quests have often differed from each other, and from the dogmatic image portrayed in the gospel accounts.[1][12][13][14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
^ a b c d e f The Quest for the Plausible Jesus: The Question of Criteria by Gerd Theissen and Dagmar Winter (Aug 30, 2002) ISBN 0664225373 page 5
^ a b c d e Jesus Research: An International Perspective (Princeton-Prague Symposia Series on the Historical Jesus) by James H. Charlesworth and Petr Pokorny (Sep 15, 2009) ISBN 0802863531 pages 1-2
^ a b c d Amy-Jill Levine in the The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. 2006 Princeton Univ Press ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 pages 1-2
^ a b Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium by Bart D. Ehrman (Sep 23, 1999) ISBN 0195124731 Oxford Univ Press pages ix-xi
^ Jesus Remembered Volume 1, by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 pp. 125-127
^ Ehrman, Bart. The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings. New York: Oxford University Press, 2003. ISBN 0-19-515462-2, chapters 13, 15
^ a b c d e f g The Jesus Quest: The Third Search for the Jew of Nazareth by Ben Witherington (May 8, 1997) ISBN 0830815449 pages 9-13
^ a b c Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee by Mark Allan Powell (1 Jan 1999) ISBN 0664257038 pages 19-23
^ a b The Historical Jesus of the Gospels by Craig S. Keener (Apr 13, 2012) ISBN 0802868886 page 163
^ a b Jesus in Contemporary Scholarship by Marcus J. Borg (Aug 1, 1994) ISBN 1563380943 pages 4-6
^ a b John P. Meier "Criteria: How do we decide what comes from Jesus?" in The Historical Jesus in Recent Research by James D. G. Dunn and Scot McKnight (Jul 15, 2006) ISBN 1575061007 page 124 "Since in the quest for the historical Jesus almost anything is possible, the function of the criteria is to pass from the merely possible to the really probable, to inspect various probabilities, and to decide which candidate is most probable. Ordinarily the criteria can not hope to do more."
^ a b In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman (who is a secular agnostic) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees" B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged : writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. page 285
^ a b c Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant 2004 ISBN 1898799881 page 200
^ "Historical Jesus, Quest of the." Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. pp 775
^ a b c d e f g h i j k The Cradle, the Cross, and the Crown: An Introduction to the New Testament by Andreas J. Köstenberger, L. Scott Kellum 2009 ISBN 978-0-8054-4365-3 pages 124-125
^ a b c d e f g The Cambridge History of Christianity, Volume 1 by Margaret M. Mitchell and Frances M. Young (Feb 20, 2006) ISBN 0521812399 page 23
^ a b Images of Christ (Academic Paperback) by Stanley E. Porter, Michael A. Hayes and David Tombs (Dec 19, 2004) ISBN 0567044602 T&T Clark page 74
^ a b c d e f g h i j Familiar Stranger: An Introduction to Jesus of Nazereth by Michael James McClymond (Mar 22, 2004) ISBN 0802826806 pages 16-22
^ a b Amy-Jill Levine in The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. Princeton Univ Press ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 page 4: ""There is a consensus of sorts on a basic outline of Jesus' life. Most scholars agree that Jesus was baptized by John, debated with fellow Jews on how best to live according to God's will, engaged in healings and exorcisms, taught in parables, gathered male and female followers in Galilee, went to Jerusalem, and was crucified by Roman soldiers during the governorship of Pontius Pilate"
^ a b Allison, Dale (2009-02). The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing. p. 59. ISBN 978-0-8028-6262-4. Retrieved 2011-Jan-09. "We wield our criteria to get what we want."
^ a b John P. Meier (26 May 2009). A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, Law and Love. Yale University Press. pp. 6. ISBN 978-0-300-14096-5. Retrieved 27 August 2010.
^ a b Akenson, Donald (1998). Surpassing wonder: the invention of the Bible and the Talmuds. University of Chicago Press. pp. 539555. ISBN 978-0-226-01073-1. Retrieved 2011-Jan-08. "...The point I shall argue below is that, the agreed evidentiary practices of the historians of Yeshua, despite their best efforts, have not been those of sound historical practice..."
^ a b c d Clive Marsh, "Diverse Agendas at Work in the Jesus Quest" in Handbook for the Study of the Historical Jesus by Tom Holmen and Stanley E. Porter (Jan 12, 2011) ISBN 9004163727 pages 986-1002
^ a b Clive Marsh "Quests of the Historical Jesus in New Historicist Perspective" in Biblical Interpretation Journal Volume 5, Number 4, 1997 , pp. 403-437(35)
^ Georgi, Dieter (1986). The Opponents of Paul in Second Corinthians. Philadelphia, PA: Fortress.
Georgi, Dieter (1991). Theocracy in Paul's Praxis and Theology. Minneapolis, MN: Fortress.
^ a b c d e The Quest for the Plausible Jesus: The Question of Criteria by Gerd Theissen and Dagmar Winter (Aug 30, 2002) ISBN 0664225373 pages 1-6
^ a b c d e f g h i Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 100-120
^ Studying the Historical Jesus: Evaluations of the State of Current Research by Bruce Chilton and Craig A. Evans (Jun 1998) ISBN 9004111425 page 27
^ The Quest for the Plausible Jesus: The Question of Criteria by Gerd Theissen and Dagmar Winter (Aug 30, 2002) ISBN 0664225373 pages 142-143
^ John, Jesus, and History Volume 1 by Paul N. Anderson, Felix Just and Tom Thatcher (Nov 14, 2007) ISBN 1589832930 page 131
^ Jesus and His World by Craig A. Evans (Feb 8, 2013) ISBN 0664239323 pages 4-5 states that no major historian or New Testament scholar follows the minimalist approaches such as those of Robert M. Price
^ a b c d Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee by Mark Allan Powell (1 Jan 1999) ISBN 0664257038 pages 13-18
^ Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 36-37
^ John's Gospel and the History of Biblical Interpretation: Bk. 1 by Sean P. Kealy (Dec 2002) ISBN 077346980X page 426
^ Resurrecting Jesus: The Earliest Christian Tradition and Its Interpreters by Dale C. Allison Jr. (Aug 18, 2005) ISBN 0567029107 pages 1-4
^ The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology by Alan Richardson 1983 ISBN 0664227481 pages 215-216
^ The Historical Jesus and the Final Judgment Sayings in Q by Brian Han Gregg (Jun 30, 2006) ISBN 3161487508 page 29
^ Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 77-78
^ a b Criteria for Authenticity in Historical-Jesus Research by Stanley E. Porter 2004 ISBN 0567043606 pages 28-29
^ a b John, Jesus, and History, Volume 1: Critical Appraisals of Critical Views by Paul N. Anderson, Felix Just and Tom Thatcher (Nov 14, 2007) ISBN 1589832930 page 127
^ a b Robert E. Van Voorst Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence Eerdmans Publishing, 2000. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 pages 2-6
^ Theissen, Gerd and Annette Merz. The historical Jesus: a comprehensive guide. Fortress Press. 1998. translated from German (1996 edition). p. 11
^ The Jesus Quest: The Third Search for the Jew of Nazareth by Ben Witherington (May 8, 1997) ISBN 0830815449 page 77
^ Jesus as a Figure in History: How Modern Historians View the Man from Galilee by Mark Allan Powell 1998 ISBN 0-664-25703-8 pages 168173
^ Robert E. Van Voorst Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence Eerdmans Publishing, 2000. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 16 states: "biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of non-existence of Jesus as effectively refuted"
^ a b c Jesus Remembered by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 page 339 states of baptism and crucifixion that these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent".
^ a b Jesus of Nazareth by Paul Verhoeven (Apr 6, 2010) ISBN 1583229051 page 39
^ Fredriksen, Paula (1988). From Jesus to Christ ISBN 0-300-04864-5 pp. ix-xii
^ Sanders, E.P. (1987). Jesus and Judaism, Fortress Press ISBN 0-8006-2061-5 pp. 1-9
^ John P. Meier, A Marginal Jew, v. 1, ch. 11; also H.H. Ben-Sasson, A History of the Jewish People, Harvard University Press, 1976, ISBN 0-674-39731-2, page 251
^ a b c d Chronicle of Jewish History from the Patriarchs to the 21st Century by Sol Scharfstein and Dorcas Gelabert (Oct 1997) ISBN 0881256064 page 85
^ "Pharisees." Cross, F. L., ed. The Oxford dictionary of the Christian church. New York: Oxford University Press. 2005
^ A Guide Through the New Testament by Celia B. Sinclair (May 1, 1994) ISBN 0664254845 page 21
^ Josephus and the Theologies of Ancient Judaism by Jonathan Klawans (Oct 12, 2012) ISBN 0199928614 Oxford Univ Press page 11
^ Resurrection in the New Testament ISBN 9042912146 by R Bieringer and V Koperski (Nov 1, 2002) page 112
^ Texts and Traditions: A Source Reader for the Study of Second Temple and Rabbinic Judaism by Lawrence H. Schiffman (Nov 1997) ISBN 088125455X pages 269-270
^ Jonathan L. Reed, "Archaeological contributions to the study of Jesus and the Gospels" in The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. Princeton Univ Press 2006 ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 pages 40-47
^ Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: a re-examination of the evidence by Jonathan L. Reed 2002 ISBN 1-56338-394-2 pages xi-xii
^ a b Craig A. Evans (Mar 26, 2012). The Archaeological Evidence For Jesus. The Huffington Post.
^ a b "Jesus Research and Archaeology: A New Perspective" by James H. Charlesworth in Jesus and archaeology edited by James H. Charlesworth 2006 ISBN 0-8028-4880-X pages 11-15
^ a b c d What are they saying about the historical Jesus? by David B. Gowler 2007 ISBN 0-8091-4445-X page 102
^ Craig A. Evans (Mar 16, 2012). Jesus and His World: The Archaeological Evidence. Westminster John Knox Press. ISBN 0-664-23413-5.
^ a b Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: a re-examination of the evidence by Jonathan L. Reed 2002 ISBN 1-56338-394-2 page 18
^ Historical Dictionary of Jesus by Daniel J. Harrington 2010 ISBN 0-8108-7667-1 page 32
^ Studying the historical Jesus: evaluations of the state of current research by Bruce Chilton, Craig A. Evans 1998 ISBN 90-04-11142-5 page 465
^ "Jesus and Capernaum: Archeological and Gospel Stratigraohy" in Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: a re-examination of the evidence' by Jonathan L. Reed 2002 ISBN 1-56338-394-2 page 139-156
^ Jesus and archaeology edited by James H. Charlesworth 2006 ISBN 0-8028-4880-X page 127
^ Who Was Jesus? by Paul Copan and Craig A. Evans 2001 ISBN 0-664-22462-8 page 187
^ a b Jesus: the complete guide by Leslie Houlden 2006 082648011X pages 63-100
^ Teaching Christianity: a world religions approach by Clive Erricker 1987 ISBN 0-7188-2634-5 page 44
^ Joel B. Green, Scot McKnight, I. Howard Marshall, Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (InterVarsity Press, 1992), page 442
^ a b James Barr, Which language did Jesus speak, Bulletin of the John Rylands University Library of Manchester, 1970; 53(1) pages 929 [1]
^ a b Handbook to exegesis of the New Testament by Stanley E. Porter 1997 ISBN 90-04-09921-2 pages 110112
^ Discovering the language of Jesus by Douglas Hamp 2005 ISBN 1-59751-017-3 page 3-4
^ Jesus in history and myth by R. Joseph Hoffmann 1986 ISBN 0-87975-332-3 page 98
^ James Barr's review article Which language did Jesus speak (referenced above) states that Aramaic has the widest support among scholars.
^ a b c d e Jesus Remembered by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 pages 313-315
^ a b Amy-Jill Levine in The Historical Jesus in Context edited by Amy-Jill Levine et al. Princeton Univ Press 2006 ISBN 978-0-691-00992-6 page 10
^ Lawrence Schiffman, "Was there a Galilean Halakha?" in Galilee in Late Antiquity (Harvard University Press 1994), pages 143-156
^ Jewish Encyclopedia: Galilee: Characteristics of Galileans: "But it is for their faulty pronunciation that the Galileans are especially remembered: 'ayin and alef, and the gutturals generally, were confounded, no distinction being made between words like '"amar" (= "ḥamor," uss), "ḥamar" (wine), "'amar" (a garment), "emar" (a lamb: 'Er. 53b); therefore Galileans were not permitted to act as readers of public prayers (Meg. 24b)."
^ Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: a re-examination of the evidence, Jonathan L. Reed, (Continuum, 2002), page 55
^ Racializing Jesus: Race, Ideology and the Formation of Modern Biblical Scholarship by Shawn Kelley 2002 ISBN 0-415-28373-6 pages 70-73
^ The Oxford companion to the Bible 1993 ISBN 0-19-504645-5 page 41
^ Making Sense of the New Testament by Craig L. Blomberg 2004 ISBN 0-8010-2747-0 pages 3-4
^ Pontius Pilate: portraits of a Roman governor by Warren Carter 2003 ISBN 0-8146-5113-5 pages 6-9
^ The forging of races: race and scripture in the Protestant Atlantic world by Colin Kidd 2006 ISBN 0-521-79324-6 pages 44-45
^ The forging of races: race and scripture in the Protestant Atlantic world by Colin Kidd 2006 ISBN 0-521-79324-6 page 18
^ The likeness of the king: a prehistory of portraiture in late medieval France by Stephen Perkinson 2009 ISBN 0-226-65879-1 page 30
^ Dickson, John. Jesus: A Short Life, Lion Hudson, 2008, ISBN 0-8254-7802-2,page 47
^ Fiensy, David A.; Jesus the Galilean: soundings in a first century life, Gorgias Press LLC, 2007, ISBN 1-59333-313-7 page 68
^ Fiensy, David A.; Jesus the Galilean: soundings in a first century life, Gorgias Press LLC, 2007, ISBN 1-59333-313-7 pages 74-77
^ Jesus the Jew: a historian's reading of the Gospels by Jeza Vermes 1983 ISBN SBN: 0961614846 page 21
^ Ehrman, Bart D. Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why. HarperCollins, 2005. ISBN 978-0-06-073817-4
^ Crossan, John Dominic. The essential Jesus. Edison: Castle Books. 1998. Contexts, p 1-24.
^ Theissen, Gerd and Annette Merz. The historical Jesus: a comprehensive guide. Fortress Press. 1998. translated from German (1996 edition)
^ Sanders terms it a "minor village." Sanders, E. P. The historical figure of Jesus. Penguin, 1993. p. 104
^ Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: A Re-examination of the Evidence by Jonathan L. Reed (May 1, 2002) ISBN 1563383942 pages 131-134
^ Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: A Re-examination of the Evidence by Jonathan L. Reed (May 1, 2002) ISBN 1563383942 pages 114-117
^ a b c The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Q-Z) by Geoffrey W. Bromiley (Jan 31, 1995) ISBN 0802837840 page 50
^ The Gospel of Mark by John R. Donahue and Daniel J., S.J. Harrington (Jan 1, 2002) ISBN 0814659659 pages 60-61
^ Whoever Hears You Hears Me: Prophets, Performance, and Tradition in Q by Richard A. Horsley and Jonathan A. Draper (Nov 1, 1999) ISBN 1563382725 page 127
^ Theissen and Merz 1998, p. 354 (for example, Mark 1.39, 2.25, 12.10; Matt. 12.5, 19.4, 21.16; Luke 4.16; and John 7.15)
^ Funk, Robert W. and the Jesus Seminar. The acts of Jesus: the search for the authentic deeds of Jesus. HarperSanFrancisco. 1998. "What do we really know about Jesus" p. 527-534.
^ Crossan, John Dominic. The essential Jesus. Edison: Castle Books. 1998. p. 147
^ In the The Cambridge Companion to Jesus edited by Markus Bockmuehl (Dec 3, 2001) ISBN 0521796784 page 14
^ In the The Cambridge Companion to Jesus edited by Markus Bockmuehl (Dec 3, 2001) ISBN 0521796784 page 21
^ John Meier, A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus 1991 ISBN 0300140185 page 278
^ a b Crossan, John Dominic (1995). Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography. HarperOne. p. 145. ISBN 0-06-061662-8. "That he was crucified is as sure as anything historical can ever be, since both Josephus and Tacitus...agree with the Christian accounts on at least that basic fact."
^ Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey by Craig L. Blomberg 2009 ISBN 0-8054-4482-3 pages 211-214
^ a b A Brief Introduction to the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman 2008 ISBN 0-19-536934-3 page 136
^ a b John P. Meier "How do we decide what comes from Jesus" in The Historical Jesus in Recent Research by James D. G. Dunn and Scot McKnight 2006 ISBN 1-57506-100-7 pages 126-128 and 132-136
^ Eddy & Boyd (2007) The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition Baker Academic, ISBN 0-8010-3114-1 page 127 states that it is now "firmly established" that there is non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus
^ John P. Meier "How do we decide what comes from Jesus" in
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widespread scholarly agreement from biblical scholars- who study "bible history"
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2013
#125
History- and Science- as conveyed by the Bible are inherently suspect.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2013
#134
If ALL the evidence is coming from Christianity, which incorporated this narrative into its
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2013
#183
Josephus is invariably referenced because it's the ONLY one. And considered suspect.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2013
#193
The bible is not a historical document. It contains some real history mixed up
kestrel91316
Aug 2013
#182
Virtually all serious historical scholars of that era agree that a historical Jesus existed.
pnwmom
Aug 2013
#133
"Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that a historical Jesus existed"
pnwmom
Aug 2013
#132
That article said the author of the book was inventing aspects of the man,
WilliamPitt
Aug 2013
#111
What historians 'agree'? What evidence do they agree upon to prove Jesus existed?
sinkingfeeling
Aug 2013
#34
I asked about his contempoaries writings. You said his Apostles were his contemporaries
notadmblnd
Aug 2013
#181
Really? First one listed is a bunch of essays about using the Gospels, language,
sinkingfeeling
Aug 2013
#48
You aren't. There is however, a veritable mountain range of evidence created by and for
Egalitarian Thug
Aug 2013
#75
(crickets chirping) - There IS none. What they have has been found not reliable or accurate.
kestrel91316
Aug 2013
#54
There is no legitimate, verifiable evidence that Jesus existed. There is one
kestrel91316
Aug 2013
#53
I have seen no provable evidence that Jesus existed. However, I think that there was a charismatic,
Arkansas Granny
Aug 2013
#103
In the same way as putting "bloggers" in the same sentence with "journalists"?
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2013
#172
Reza Aslan just stated recently, Romans reserved crucifixion for traitors and rebels
Brother Buzz
Aug 2013
#140
Wow.. and I've seen the rock that Mary rested on during her trip to Bethelem!
JustFiveMoreMinutes
Aug 2013
#33
The same ditwits who go off climbing Mt Ararat to "prove" Noah's Ark is up there.
Archae
Aug 2013
#50
It's not surprising to hear that people who follow a religion would believe this bunk.
Walk away
Aug 2013
#59
I hope it is the real thing. It would be a blessing if it was the real cross.
hrmjustin
Aug 2013
#61
If it were a part of the true cross we would have something of our faith to touch with human hands.
hrmjustin
Aug 2013
#79
Wouldn't that rather be like someone in the Kennedy fmaily snuggling up to a rifle though?
truebrit71
Aug 2013
#80
No! Remember we believe Jesus was raised and by his death on the cross we believe we are redeemed.
hrmjustin
Aug 2013
#82
Personally I don't think he would mind because I believe he is in heaven. But I can not speak for
hrmjustin
Aug 2013
#86
the concept of martyrdom is key to the faith...... without it, people wouldn't allow others
bettyellen
Aug 2013
#137
the old saying goes 'there have been enough pieces of the 'True Cross' sold to build Noah's Ark and
Bluenorthwest
Aug 2013
#78
It can't be found, just like the "proof" that he existed at all...that's my point...
truebrit71
Aug 2013
#96
This has to be one of the worst examples of journalism (and archaeology).
Behind the Aegis
Aug 2013
#69
You would be hard pressed to find non "Biblical" historians who agree that Jesus objectively existed
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2013
#121
...or THE Holy Colander used to strain the Flying Spaghetti Monster! n/t
backscatter712
Aug 2013
#179
There's no evidence outside the gospels. And there were several similar mystery cults at the time.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2013
#152
Fundamentalist creationists don't believe in carbon dating, so won't convince them. Oh, wait-
AlinPA
Aug 2013
#151
Helen, mother of Constantine, claimed to have found the cross in the 4th Century
Sanity Claws
Aug 2013
#177
First, we have to establish if there's any wood involved at all, or just stone
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2013
#202
Yes, that's my point - the first report is just a stone with a cross on it
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2013
#204