General Discussion

A HERETIC I AM

(24,876 posts)

49. No, I don't suppose you have....

Mon Aug 5, 2013, 12:31 PM

Aug 2013

And I apologize for suggesting you were. However, many on this thread are in one way or another. I suppose the point I was trying to make should have been more specifically addressed to that larger group of Americans to which I alluded.

Also, as a side note, the 1978 era you point out is also the same era when the Regan tax cuts came in to play, lowering the top marginal rates for both individuals and corporations.

It is my understanding that when the top marginal rates for corps and individuals were higher, it forced more investment in those companies (and thus kept employment and wages high) in order to remove that income from that side of the ledger, so to speak. That era sparked the beginning of all of this - the stagnation of middle class wages, the true decline of the labor union in the US, the rise in corporate power and CEO/executive vs worker pay disparity.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

129 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The Great American Do-It-Yourself Retirement Fraud, Brought to You By Big Finance & Co. [View all] xchrom Aug 2013 OP

If not for the Bush crash, I might have made it. B Calm Aug 2013 #1

Same here. I have NOTHING to show for those eight years. lastlib Aug 2013 #4

Not many people can afford to save 30% of their salary muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #106

I understand that. I worked many years with B Calm Aug 2013 #107

The 401K was designed to make someone rich liberal N proud Aug 2013 #2

Ok now ceonupe Aug 2013 #3

Kudos to you ....... dothemath Aug 2013 #5

The only people ceonupe Aug 2013 #11

That reads like spam... CBHagman Aug 2013 #93

Sorry ceonupe Aug 2013 #109

What the hell is this? PETRUS Aug 2013 #7

Pensions ceonupe Aug 2013 #18

Self-defeating idiocy PETRUS Aug 2013 #41

By all means get out of debt. ceonupe Aug 2013 #43

Your response is a non-sequitur. PETRUS Aug 2013 #79

How so ceonupe Aug 2013 #80

Here ya go: PETRUS Aug 2013 #82

Pension plans were DEFERRED PAY from employees as they worked their whole lives SoCalDem Aug 2013 #76

^^^THIS^^^^!! NickB79 Aug 2013 #81

The key is to start young and keep at it Major Nikon Aug 2013 #8

$50K. How many part time, minimum wage, no benefit jobs does that entail to make that much? RC Aug 2013 #10

The same formula works no matter how much you make Major Nikon Aug 2013 #12

Yes, but saving 15% of yr $20,000 per yr income is infinitely more difficult than saving 15% Nay Aug 2013 #44

Like the old saying says... Major Nikon Aug 2013 #71

Actually, the amount of shit eaten would be the same, more bread does not decrease the shit. nt Mnemosyne Aug 2013 #95

You're assuming the entire sandwich is eaten Major Nikon Aug 2013 #96

Point taken. nt Mnemosyne Aug 2013 #115

Yep ceonupe Aug 2013 #14

I've always felt comprehensive financial planning should be taught in high school Major Nikon Aug 2013 #19

Assuming an 8% return over 20 years seems as realistic as assuming a 9%, 20% or any other return. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #22

The S&P 500 has averaged 8.2% over the past 30 years Major Nikon Aug 2013 #27

True but many of the ceonupe Aug 2013 #29

You agree that it works, then argue that armatures (sp?) who do it different will get burned. cbdo2007 Aug 2013 #53

No not arguing anything ceonupe Aug 2013 #55

"Past Performance Does Not Guarantee Future Results" Mosby Aug 2013 #60

Assuming an 8% return is not a logical fallacy Major Nikon Aug 2013 #72

probably not directly but it's an unprovable assumption. Mosby Aug 2013 #86

I can't prove the sun will rise tomorrow either Major Nikon Aug 2013 #90

The average return on it over the last 15 years (1997-2012) was 4.47% muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #113

Which convieniently includes the time period at the end of the 80-90's surge and Bush's recession Major Nikon Aug 2013 #116

After inflation, the 30 year range is more like 4.3% to 8.1% muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #118

I didn't say after inflation Major Nikon Aug 2013 #126

Just sayin' jeffrey_pdx Aug 2013 #92

No, the S&P 500 DOESN'T provide "consistent returns." Common Sense Party Aug 2013 #69

Important if true. But if a person anticipates walking across a lake with an average 5' depth, AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #31

That simply underscores the need for comprehensive financial planning Major Nikon Aug 2013 #73

That's what this guy said. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #75

Grifters of all sorts exist in our society Major Nikon Aug 2013 #77

At $7.15 per hour, how many jobs do you propose they have? If they have a family, are they supposed appleannie1 Aug 2013 #36

i would hope this president ceonupe Aug 2013 #117

Check your math FreeJoe Aug 2013 #56

I forgot to add the yearly contribution Major Nikon Aug 2013 #70

YMMV FreeJoe Aug 2013 #83

I can't afford to contribute now; I certainly couldn't than when I had massive student loans. alarimer Aug 2013 #89

I can't agree that it's a scam and a fraud Major Nikon Aug 2013 #91

yep. That's the lie. That's the carrot they stick in our faces. Those of us who know people who work liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #97

Where Do You Live RobinA Aug 2013 #124

The secret is not to live at or beyond your means Major Nikon Aug 2013 #128

You're in a demographic bottleneck. you'll do fine Recursion Aug 2013 #16

Clearly, you don't understand how it really works either, and the worst part is that you probably Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #23

I don't disagree totally ceonupe Aug 2013 #28

That just demonstrates the problem. There are these peculiar institutions we call banks that Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #42

Well said. moondust Aug 2013 #54

These are the stories they bury, and when they do surface they are ignored or diminished Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #68

Yep. THAT is the very problem. If you're unlucky enough.... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #85

I think that you are being too harsh FreeJoe Aug 2013 #84

Kicked and Recommended. nt Enthusiast Aug 2013 #6

Spread Far and Wide. 401(k) is a lot more sexy a term than "dying at your desk". HughBeaumont Aug 2013 #9

Actually that goal is not all that unrealistic if you are highly motivated Major Nikon Aug 2013 #24

Keep sellin that BS salib Aug 2013 #35

So everyone who saves for retirement is making theirs off of others? Major Nikon Aug 2013 #74

that is how capitalism and the market work. Someone else's stock has to be going down for liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #98

Actually that's not how the stock market or the real estate market works Major Nikon Aug 2013 #105

You will never, ever get seriously disabled in a car wreck eridani Aug 2013 #103

I don't make 100k/year. HughBeaumont Aug 2013 #108

Look at it this way Major Nikon Aug 2013 #111

"That's why no one can retire" - Huffington Post says the opposite wercal Aug 2013 #25

All too true. Plus, if your house is paid off, you are still not out of the woods. In some AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #26

In most states ceonupe Aug 2013 #30

No, the point is that local property taxes can finance more than just the police and the schools. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #33

No that is my point ceonupe Aug 2013 #37

The parasites use the Horatio Alger scheme to sell their snake oil. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #40

The dirty little secret is that you WON'T be "dying at your desk." You get forced out way before CTyankee Aug 2013 #114

K & R ctsnowman Aug 2013 #13

The demographic problem hits 401ks much harder than SS Recursion Aug 2013 #15

Please see the article about excessive 401(k) fees in the September issue of Consumer Reports mahatmakanejeeves Aug 2013 #17

^^this^^ I was just looking foir the link but you beat me to it. eridani Aug 2013 #100

k/r marmar Aug 2013 #20

My theory on 401k's wercal Aug 2013 #21

If you have a dozen Mutual Funds..... A HERETIC I AM Aug 2013 #46

Well I haven't really blamed anyone for anything, have I? wercal Aug 2013 #47

No, I don't suppose you have.... A HERETIC I AM Aug 2013 #49

your point is a good one. who has time to do due diligence on 500 companies? that's a task HiPointDem Aug 2013 #63

I would call it an unholy collision of various forces wercal Aug 2013 #64

+1 uponit7771 Aug 2013 #57

The only thing more effective than voting Republican is investing Republican. raouldukelives Aug 2013 #32

Very well said. Corruption Inc Aug 2013 #50

It is incredibly sad. raouldukelives Aug 2013 #125

I guess all the people I talk to every day that are saving plenty in their 401(k) plans don't exist. Common Sense Party Aug 2013 #34

Maybe we should all buy tulips. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #39

The smug top 20% of earners certainly do exist eridani Aug 2013 #102

Absolute nonsense. I talk to people all the time who earn modest incomes Common Sense Party Aug 2013 #112

Those are well-paid bluecollar jobs eridani Aug 2013 #127

You have no idea who I talk to, Chicken Little. Common Sense Party Aug 2013 #129

How has a 401K left anyone with "very little at all"??? That doesn't make any sense. cbdo2007 Aug 2013 #38

When the market is down, so is your 401K and you don't always get that back when the market goes up liberal N proud Aug 2013 #45

You only lose all of that if you sell. The market has fully recovered + more since 2008 cbdo2007 Aug 2013 #52

The market has Mutt Funds that track them have not, 85% fail thier own indexs they're uponit7771 Aug 2013 #58

I'm up 75% on money put into my 401K this year.... cbdo2007 Aug 2013 #59

That's not the broader range of mutt funds, they're not back to where the SHOULD be right now uponit7771 Aug 2013 #61

That is 5 years of earning power of that money that I lost in 2008 liberal N proud Aug 2013 #62

You have the same number of shares. Common Sense Party Aug 2013 #66

Pensions will be there - 401K Might be there liberal N proud Aug 2013 #110

Pensions will be there? You have been reading the news lately, right? n/t hughee99 Aug 2013 #119

Yea, companies are killing pensions in favor of gambling on 401K's liberal N proud Aug 2013 #120

Companies (and cities) are also taking away pensions through bankruptcy. hughee99 Aug 2013 #121

No - they just have a recession to run off with it. liberal N proud Aug 2013 #122

Really? A recession for a few years over the course of 30+ years of retirement planning hughee99 Aug 2013 #123

kr HiPointDem Aug 2013 #48

Time for a juicy reverse retirement shit sandwich Blue Owl Aug 2013 #51

Yes, the 401K is terrible compared to the defined benefit pension, but OutNow Aug 2013 #65

The other big benefit of the 401(k) is they actually exist. Common Sense Party Aug 2013 #67

There are other benefits as well and defined pensions weren't without their own faults Major Nikon Aug 2013 #94

Thanks. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #78

They are SO helpful. Octafish Aug 2013 #87

K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2013 #88

. blkmusclmachine Aug 2013 #99

I had to cash in my 401k DonCoquixote Aug 2013 #101

This has always angered me. bluestateboomer Aug 2013 #104