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In reply to the discussion: Some facts on dropping the two bombs [View all]zipplewrath
(16,698 posts)7. A particular point
Fact 5...best case Japan was divided in half at the high command about surrender.
Fact 6... Even after Nagasaki, and the Emperor's speech, a Major attempted a coup, to continue fighting.
In this modern age of communication, I think it is especially hard for people to understand communications, especially between Japan and the US. There was no CNN. There was no internet. There were no satellites. Communications took alot of time and between warring parties went throug intermediaries. The fog of war was especially thick. At any given time there are simlutaneous bits of information all present at the same time.
1) Facts you believe to be true that are
2) Facts that you believe to be true that are false
3) Facts that you believe to be false that are false
4) Facts that you believe to be false that are true
5) Facts that are unknown to you that are true
We can sit here now and read alot about what was "known" and not known. But especially for things about which there was no follow through action, it isn't clear what was known AND BELIEVED, and what was believed but not true. People tend to correct their memories after the fact. Information that was believed but false is often lost to history. And in this fog, two people working together still tend not to believe the same set of facts.
During wars there are frequent reports that one side or another is ready to surrender/negotiate. The time delay between when these reports are received, and when they become understood to be true can be weeks. And until two sides ACTUALLY show up at a table, it isn't known, even to history, if both sides were truly ready, or merely trying to manipulate their opponent or their own populations.
Fact 6... Even after Nagasaki, and the Emperor's speech, a Major attempted a coup, to continue fighting.
In this modern age of communication, I think it is especially hard for people to understand communications, especially between Japan and the US. There was no CNN. There was no internet. There were no satellites. Communications took alot of time and between warring parties went throug intermediaries. The fog of war was especially thick. At any given time there are simlutaneous bits of information all present at the same time.
1) Facts you believe to be true that are
2) Facts that you believe to be true that are false
3) Facts that you believe to be false that are false
4) Facts that you believe to be false that are true
5) Facts that are unknown to you that are true
We can sit here now and read alot about what was "known" and not known. But especially for things about which there was no follow through action, it isn't clear what was known AND BELIEVED, and what was believed but not true. People tend to correct their memories after the fact. Information that was believed but false is often lost to history. And in this fog, two people working together still tend not to believe the same set of facts.
During wars there are frequent reports that one side or another is ready to surrender/negotiate. The time delay between when these reports are received, and when they become understood to be true can be weeks. And until two sides ACTUALLY show up at a table, it isn't known, even to history, if both sides were truly ready, or merely trying to manipulate their opponent or their own populations.
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It was the first time in history the vast majority of Japanese people had ever heard his voice.
AtheistCrusader
Aug 2013
#32
The people of Hiroshima were busy ripping down their own homes, digging bunkers
AtheistCrusader
Aug 2013
#48
I'd sign the Szilárd petition then nail it to the totem pole you squat on everyday here.
miyazaki
Aug 2013
#41
Nadine, they were negotiating peace with us before we dropped the bomb on them.
Th1onein
Aug 2013
#60
Incidentally, we risked lives and the success of the mission to warn civilians out of the cities.
AtheistCrusader
Aug 2013
#54
If the US hadn't used them first, somebody would have wanted to use them later.
reformist2
Aug 2013
#55
#4: an airburst at 10,000 ft is pretty much the opposite of "targeting". n/t
DisgustipatedinCA
Aug 2013
#70
You're right about the altitude, but from 1950 or from 10,000, precision is not the main benefit
DisgustipatedinCA
Aug 2013
#75
THE DECISION TO USE THE ATOMIC BOMB - For those looking for more than the status quo opinion
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
Aug 2013
#73