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In reply to the discussion: If Truman refused to use the atomic bomb on Japan, what should he have done instead? [View all]DirkGently
(12,151 posts)85. What other wars should have been ended with nukes, then?
What is so incredibly unique about the U.S. obtaining instant, unconditional surrender in WWII that made using horrific weapons of mass destruction that caused decades of cancer and birth defects, a necessity, when no one today would suggest a nuke would ever be the best choice?
I do not believe the "million deaths" "house-to-house fighting" story at all. Japan was on its knees. Their naval and air forces were destroyed. Perhaps it would have required time. Perhaps surrender would not have been unconditional. We had won.
Nuclear weapons was not the "only" nor the "best" option. And using two within a short interval is even less defensible.
It was a show of force to the world, and test of nuclear weapons on live human targets for scientific and political gain. Every other war in history was ended in another way, no one believes any other war should ever be ended in such a way.
There simply is no honest way to evaluate the use of nuclear weapons by the United States on Japan without acknowleding that a large, signficant, and perhaps dominating rationale for their use was the desire of the military and political leadership of the United States to demonstrate, specifically to the Soviet Union, that it had functional nuclear weapons, and to test the effects of those weapons on live human targets.
There may have been a military "upside" for the U.S. But it was not the only way. It was not the most humane way, somehow. It was not justified because the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor or committed war crimes.
We wanted to use the nukes. We wanted the world to see that the U.S. was, and would be, the predominant military force in the world. There simply is no reasonable question about that motivation, at all.
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If Truman refused to use the atomic bomb on Japan, what should he have done instead? [View all]
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
OP
Allow them to kill 15+ million more civilians. Allow tens of thousands US soldiers to die.
The Link
Aug 2013
#1
My father was in the army in Hawaii at that time, preparing for a land invasion.
SharonAnn
Aug 2013
#57
Wasn't it estimated that a "conventional land invasion" would cost 500,000 American lives?
KansDem
Aug 2013
#2
In a tota war? Yes. Lives of your troops are worth any greater number of enemy, even civilians. N/T
GreenStormCloud
Aug 2013
#97
That was discussed. The fear was of the possibility of a well publicized dud aka fizzle
stevenleser
Aug 2013
#12
The estimated deaths from a full invasion was as many as 10 million Japanese. n/t
lumberjack_jeff
Aug 2013
#146
Seriously, that war was Hell on Earth. Ask the Chinese what they thought of the Rape of Nanking...
Hekate
Aug 2013
#107
Implicating ethics and morality into conflict is a rather diaphanous baseline
LanternWaste
Aug 2013
#49
I can't argue with that at all; and I've always had a difficult time rationalizing...
LanternWaste
Aug 2013
#81
What a magisterial post! Should be required reading, imho. Thank you for taking
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#99
Because their use became immediately controversial after WWII. Much like Chemical weapons after WWI
stevenleser
Aug 2013
#21
You are the one suggesting that continued Japanese occupation of all those lands
hack89
Aug 2013
#93
I've read estimates that as many as 1 million American soldiers would have died
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#16
I'm the OP and I hastily posted rather than consider a more nuanced wording. Maybe I should have
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#38
I totally understand your position and point. I don't know enough of the history of the
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#32
We didn't understand it, but half of the Japanese government was looking for a face saving way to
stevenleser
Aug 2013
#23
Thanks for the links. Will try to get to them later today. Half of the Japanese
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#36
I think you are correct and your argument is one that opponents of the use of
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#33
I agree with your analysis. It's why I say that Truman chose the 'least-bad' alternative among
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#41
I'm with you, ND, for the most part. The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#42
What would the American people have done to Truman if he hadn't used the bomb, and.....
LongTomH
Aug 2013
#53
Promised the safety of the Emperor and his family, promised an honorable surrender, and a peaceful
msanthrope
Aug 2013
#75
Neither. Blockade them until the Russians invaded or a revolution took down the militarists.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Aug 2013
#76
I get where you're coming from and there's a part of me that wants to agree. But (and
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#87
Why is a slow death due to starvation and disease more humane than an atomic bomb?
hack89
Aug 2013
#91
If there's any good that came out of this, it's that no one dared ever do it again.
leveymg
Aug 2013
#82
I think I remember reading Ellsberg speculating that one reason why Vietnam
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#89
Views of Navy Admirals Leahy, Nimitz & Halsey, AF commanding Gen. Hap Arnold, Gen. LeMay....
Faryn Balyncd
Aug 2013
#84
I wonder if anyone here would prefer we had dropped them on Hitler's bunker, which was the intention
leveymg
Aug 2013
#90
Reading all the responses to my OP, I'm reminded of something Robert E. Lee allegedly
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#96
Hmm. I remember that as being said while he was watching the Confederates march
Benton D Struckcheon
Aug 2013
#120
Purple Heart Medals used today were made in anticipation of the invasion of the Japanese Mainland
egold2604
Aug 2013
#100
War is terrible for everyone on both sides (except the mercenaries and war
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#129
I think a naval and aerial blockade was another option, although the costs of
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#132
We should have tried to negotiate a settlement whereby Japan gave up its conquered territories.
Vattel
Aug 2013
#138
I'm not enough of an expert in the time or the Japanese imperial mindset. Either in this
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#140
He should have given the Japanese more time to respond to the 1st one, before he used the second
JPZenger
Aug 2013
#143
I read in one of the threads here that the Japanese asked for more time time
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#151