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HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
93. wrong.
Wed Aug 7, 2013, 06:23 AM
Aug 2013
In the German system, about 85 percent of residents purchase heavily regulated, non-profit insurance referred to as Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung (Statutory Health Insurance, GKV), approximately 10 percent buy private insurance, and the remaining 5 percent fall into other insurance schemes.

Krankenkassen (Sickness Funds) are heavily regulated, non-profit insurers who are legally required to accept all applicants and are permitted to sell health insurance (GKV).

http://www.aicgs.org/issue/structure-of-the-german-health-care-system/


There is no competition on products on services between the funds. All provide the same services as defined by the G-BA (Gemeinsamer Bundesausschuss)...

Private insurance covers nearly the same services but allows additional benefits (e.g. first class service) – there is competition between private insurers.

In ambulatory physician care, a regional physicians’ association negotiates a collective contract with a single sickness fund in the form of a quasi-budget for physician services. The association distributes the funds among general practitioners (GPs) and specialists who claim reimbursement mainly on a fee-for-service basis...

Hospitals are financed on a dual basis: investments are planned by the governments of the 16 Bundesländer, and subsequently co-financed by the Bundesländer as well as the federal government, while sickness funds finance recurrent expenditures and maintenance costs.

http://www.ispor.org/htaroadmaps/germany.asp



The krankenkasses are not private for-profit businesses. They aren't private companies that have a sideline in public insurance -- they are public corporations, and they began as worker or employer-funded insurances, not private for-profit insurers.

Or historically, 'friendly societies':

A friendly society (sometimes called a mutual society, benevolent society, fraternal organization or ROSCA) is a mutual association for the purposes of insurance, pensions, savings or cooperative banking. It is a mutual organization or benefit society composed of a body of people who join together for a common financial or social purpose. Before modern insurance, and the welfare state, friendly societies provided financial and social services to individuals, often according to their religious, political, or trade affiliations...

Credit unions and other types of organization are modern equivalents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_society



The first bill that had success was the Health Insurance bill, which was passed in 1883....The program was established to provide health care for the largest segment of the German workers. The health service was established on a local basis, with the cost divided between employers and the employed. The employers contributed 1/3, while the workers contributed 2/3s.

Individual local health bureaus were administered by a committee elected by the members of each bureau, and this move had the unintended effect of establishing a majority representation for the workers on account of their large financial contribution. This worked to the advantage of the Social Democrats who – through heavy Worker membership – achieved their first small foothold in public administration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Health_Insurance_Bill_of_1883



Similarly in Japan:

National health insurance emerged in Japan as the result of a gradual process that can be traced back to 1905, when the Kamegafuchi Textile Company provided limited benefits for its employees. In the decades that followed, more and more corporations began offering benefits through mutual aid societies. A health insurance law enacted in 1922 was inspired by the German system established by Chancellor Bismarck in 1883. As in Germany, this first law extended health insurance coverage to industrial workers and miners but excluded the self-employed and employees in companies with fewer than five workers.2 This law, implemented in 1927, established the practice of mandating coverage by enterprises and created an important government role in the provision of health insurance to those individuals not covered by employers. In 1938, health insurance was extended to...other groups not covered by the 1922 law.

In 1958, the 1938 law was revised to include the remaining 30 percent of the population not previously covered. This revision broke the precedent of extending health insurance to occupational groups by calling for universal coverage on the basis of residence. Every government jurisdiction, whether city, town or village, was required to provide health insurance to every uncovered resident by 1961. Since 1961, virtually all Japanese have been covered by either employers or the government.

Ignoring some administrative complexities and small beneficiary groups, health insurance plans for employees may be categorized into four groups:

Government-managed plans - These plans provide coverage for the almost 30 percent of the population comprised of employees (and their dependents) of small enterprises with more than five but fewer than 300 employees. These plans are managed by the government's Social Insurance Agency through a network of some 300 local offices. Premium contributions are set by law at a fixed rate (8.2 percent of monthly income before taxes) and evenly split between employees and employers.

Society-managed plans - Known as health insurance societies, more than 1,800 company plans provide coverage for 26 percent of the population. These health insurance societies are managed jointly by representatives of labor and management in enterprises with more than 300 employees. Society-managed plans can be also established by several enterprises employing 3,000 or more employees. Payroll taxes for such plans range from 5.8 to 9.5 percent of gross monthly income.5 Employers are required to pay at least half of these contributions, and some pay as much as 80 percent.

Mutual aid association (MAA) insurers - Covering almost 10 percent of the population, these include 27 plans for government employees in the national public service, 54 plans for local government employees, and one plan for quasi-public employees like teachers and other school employees. The average payroll contribution of these plans in 8.5 percent of the employee's wage.

Plans for day laborers (for those who work less than two months during the year) and seaman - These independent plans cover only 0.1 and 0.4 percent of the population, respectively.

In addition to the employee groups noted above, employees in enterprises with fewer than five workers, the self-employed and retirees are covered either by municipal governments or by national health insurance societies

Most of Japan's health insurance plans are private organizations in terms of administrative law; in practice, they have a quasi-public status insofar as they are largely bound to provide uniform benefits and to cover all eligible beneficiaries.

Employers have little freedom to alter premium levels, which range from 5.8 to 9.5 percent of the wage base.7

The self-employed are required to contribute premiums to health insurance plans that are administered by local governments or trade associations.

And all of these premiums are taxed to finance the national fund
which, along with government subsidies, finances national health insurance for the elderly.

...This has limited private insurance to coverage of copayments. There is, however, a small market for supplemental benefits that pay for amenities like private rooms.

http://www.nyu.edu/projects/rodwin/lessons.html#II



IOW, these 'insurers' are not private for-profit insurance corporations.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

And exactly how did the previous US healthcare system promote equality? intaglio Aug 2013 #1
^^^this^^^ Freddie Aug 2013 #3
After looking at Cryptoad Aug 2013 #15
Sorry it's still described as the weakest go to the wall. This plan propped up the insurance Arcanetrance Aug 2013 #4
Had it not been for the obstructionist GOP the plan would have been quite different Major Nikon Aug 2013 #6
I'm not putting it all on Obama I understand the separation of powers Arcanetrance Aug 2013 #8
It was President Obama and the Democratic leadership in Congress who killed the public option. eomer Aug 2013 #77
Isn't it time to retire the false dilemma from the grab-bag of political bullshit? Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #11
It is not a "False" dilemma intaglio Aug 2013 #54
The false dilemma is that the only option to this corporate welfare program is nothing. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #65
I cannot cure willful ignorance intaglio Aug 2013 #70
You should look to your own rather impressive ignorance. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #73
So no refutations? intaglio Aug 2013 #74
You've said nothing that requires any refutation. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #78
Fantasy? Nothing worth refuting? intaglio Aug 2013 #79
How on earth do you get to bitchkitty Aug 2013 #19
Because posts like this are just temper tantrums intaglio Aug 2013 #55
Well, thanks for putting me in my place. bitchkitty Aug 2013 #62
I asked you to correct your accusation intaglio Aug 2013 #63
The OP isn't constructive, leaves out "none at all" perspectives and premise that NOTHING can be ... uponit7771 Aug 2013 #57
Their answer to everything is always "Medicare for all...." cbdo2007 Aug 2013 #40
Unfortunately "gradualism" is a dirty word to the far left n/t intaglio Aug 2013 #56
Making everyone buy insurance from the private sector is not a road to single-payer; it's a HiPointDem Aug 2013 #84
Ignoring the foolishness if your assertion about private insurance, intaglio Aug 2013 #87
japanese system is not 'based upon private insurance funds,' for starters. other huge HiPointDem Aug 2013 #88
Nor is the german system based on private health insurance: HiPointDem Aug 2013 #90
your extensive wiki-ing states that the coverage is only guaranteed by the state intaglio Aug 2013 #92
wrong. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #93
They are private companies intaglio Aug 2013 #94
they aren't private 'companies'. private companies compete in a marketplace on price points HiPointDem Aug 2013 #95
They are 'private companies' like the Freemasons are a 'private company' HiPointDem Aug 2013 #100
It didn't: which is why we didn't need the ACA which mandates that we buy into that system GiaGiovanni Aug 2013 #67
K&R If only someone could've predicted this, then. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #2
Obama took Single Payer off the table w/out the Repubs. even asking him to! Divernan Aug 2013 #5
Which followed Speaker Pelosi keeping it off the agenda and the floor for Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #9
Lieberman (Senator from Aetna) was never going to vote for it. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #10
I think you are talking about Al Gore's 2000 Vice Presidential running mate Fumesucker Aug 2013 #29
Who also campaigned against Obama, and for McCain, in 2008. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #30
The point being that a lot of liberals groked Holy Joe in 2000 Fumesucker Aug 2013 #34
You are one of the few who find the Bush years funny. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #42
No, I find you defending Lieberman hilarious Fumesucker Aug 2013 #43
When did I defend Lieberman? Never. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #44
Then what are we arguing about? Fumesucker Aug 2013 #45
You and the Teabaggers keep on rooting for it to fail. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #21
Call me all the names you like, you've made it clear that's all you've got. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #27
Maybe you can lobby your Congressman for the 41st Repeal Vote. Rejectionism is all you got. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #38
If not for your name calling and arguing with yourself by pretending that people said things you Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #48
Its working already ... and driving some crazy as a result. nt JoePhilly Aug 2013 #31
+1 uponit7771 Aug 2013 #58
Oh shit! Are we back to Tinkerbell croaking if we don't clap hard enough? JVS Aug 2013 #89
du rec. xchrom Aug 2013 #7
Someone sulphurdunn Aug 2013 #12
Geeze, I'd have preferred to do nothing than to get the advances we did groundloop Aug 2013 #13
So it's your life or your wallet? nolabels Aug 2013 #24
The serious question is whether the overall NET effect is "advances" Jim Lane Aug 2013 #25
So you think NO health insurance is better than expensive?! uponit7771 Aug 2013 #59
(1) Sometimes, yes. (2) Anyway, that isn't the right question. Jim Lane Aug 2013 #64
Two excellent posts you made here dreamnightwind Aug 2013 #75
The 1% comes first with Obama. Not the rest of us. Our health is secondary to forestpath Aug 2013 #14
Yeah, that Medicaid expansion was a complete giveaway to the rich. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #17
You should know all about that. forestpath Aug 2013 #20
I'm not the one rooting for Obamacare to fail and helping sabotage it. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #22
Expressing an opinion is not sabotage and such defensive hyperbole only forestpath Aug 2013 #23
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #37
+1 MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #68
Do you know where Aroostook county is? geek tragedy Aug 2013 #16
Didja miss this part? progressoid Aug 2013 #28
Did healthcare cost the same before the ACA? geek tragedy Aug 2013 #35
And the USPS will be a fond memory because of just that attitude Fumesucker Aug 2013 #46
That's kind of the point of having a larger pool isn't it? progressoid Aug 2013 #47
yeah, they'd much rather subsidize the insurance business HiPointDem Aug 2013 #86
the biggest city in aroostoock county is 2.5 hours from bangor maine = less time HiPointDem Aug 2013 #81
I saw those Debates, John2 Aug 2013 #18
right wing apologists attacking president Obama again sigmasix Aug 2013 #26
When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, Grasshopper Fumesucker Aug 2013 #32
What do you expect from the "kill the bill" ProSense Aug 2013 #33
Oh, lambert strether is a full blown PUMA psycho who hates Obama. This is not a surprise. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #36
+1, please make this an OP... uponit7771 Aug 2013 #60
Obamacare is a rightwing policy. Ask Romney, McCain, Bush... leftstreet Aug 2013 #39
"If Obamacare passed during any of those administrations, DU would shit itself blind" ProSense Aug 2013 #41
Unfortunatly, progressoid Aug 2013 #52
GOPers love that 'Tax and Spend Democrats' crap leftstreet Aug 2013 #71
+1 MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #69
ask the heritage foundation, because that's where it came from. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #91
given the nature of your relentless Obama bashing Sheepshank Aug 2013 #49
Talk about ignoring reality. This article compares Obamacare to a system that was never in place. Mass Aug 2013 #50
And in all the furious name-calling not one mention of the point the article makes. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author Mass Aug 2013 #53
Fill an article full of sophistry then wonder why no one takes it seriously?! uponit7771 Aug 2013 #61
I never said I wondered at the constant attempts to talk about anything but the post. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #66
We have to get insurance companies out of our health care system! liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #72
Where does insurance companies get that it costs more to deliver health care in rural areas? B Calm Aug 2013 #76
From the fact that it does, I assume. It does for Medicare, too (nt) Recursion Aug 2013 #83
what are those more expensive things? salaries are comparable. Equipment is carried into HiPointDem Aug 2013 #85
Seriously? Recursion Aug 2013 #96
so the difference is ambulance costs on unpaved roads? (btw, lots of places designated 'rural' HiPointDem Aug 2013 #97
Sigh. Recursion Aug 2013 #98
Sigh. I live in a small town, & we are surrounded by officially designated rural area, but most HiPointDem Aug 2013 #99
K&R woo me with science Aug 2013 #80
It's such a fucking nightmare, but wait! Our resident soothsayers KNOW that it will be a smashing Safetykitten Aug 2013 #82
I have an autistic child. bravenak Aug 2013 #101
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