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pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
100. When you were growing up was some time ago. And even then no one was prevented from
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 10:55 AM
Aug 2013

attending Mass because of not using an envelope.

How can you say that "every single parish" had an envelope system? Did you visit every single parish? And even the ones that had them never required people to use them. We had envelopes in my parish, and the vast majority of what was actually in the basket were single dollar bills. This was also true in any parish that we visited on vacation. Single dollar bills and an envelope every once in a while.

By contrast, no one can be a Scientologist without paying heavily for their "courses."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_as_a_business

Several of the Church's practices resemble business operations, including paying recruiters a cut of the money made from the people they attract and the franchising network that results in large revenues for the highest levels of the Church. Such activities distinguish Scientology from other religious organizations. The Church pays 10% commissions to recruiters, called Field Staff Members (FSMs), on new recruits they bring in who take a course or receive counseling.[6][7] In addition, Church of Scientology franchises/missions, pay the Church roughly 10% of their gross income.[8] The Church charges for auditing and other Church-related courses required for advancing through the ranks of Scientology. These programs can run to tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.[9]

The Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom consists of one half relating to levels of higher states of spiritual existence, and the other half the skills relating to helping another reach that level. Training is described as "50% of the route"[10]
The Religious Technology Center maintains strict control over the use of Scientology symbols, icons, and names. It claims copyright and trademark over the "Scientology cross," and its lawyers have threatened lawsuits against individuals and organizations who have published these protected images without permission in books and on websites.[11] Because of this, it is difficult for individual groups to attempt to practice Scientology publicly without any affiliation or connection to the "official" Church of Scientology. Scientology has sued a number of individuals who attempted to set up their own "auditing" practices, using copyright and trademark law to shut these competitors down.[12]

Writing in Skeptic magazine, Michael Shermer contrasted such practices with mainstream religions: "Envision converting to Judaism but having to pay for courses in order to hear the story of Abraham and Isaac, Noah and the flood, or Moses and the Ten Commandments. Or imagine joining the Catholic Church but not being told about the crucifixion and the resurrection until you have reached Operating Theological Level III, which can only be attained after many years and tens of thousands of dollars in church-run courses."[13]

SNIP

^ Shermer, Michael. "The Real Science behind Scientology". Scientific American 305 (5). Retrieved 16 January 2013. "So did its founder, writer L. Ron Hubbard, just make it all up--as legend has it--to create a religion that was more lucrative than producing science fiction? Instead of printing the legend as fact, I recently interviewed the acclaimed science-fiction author Harlan Ellison, who told me he was at the birth of Scientology. At a meeting in New York City of a sci-fi writers' group called the Hydra Club, Hubbard was complaining to L. Sprague de Camp and the others about writing for a penny a word. "Lester del Rey then said half-jokingly, 'What you really ought to do is create a religion because it will be tax-free,' and at that point everyone in the room started chiming in with ideas for this new religion. So the idea was a Gestalt that Ron caught on to and assimilated the details. He then wrote it up as 'Dianetics: A New Science of the Mind' and sold it to John W. Campbell, Jr., who published it in Astounding Science Fiction in 1950.""

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

It will be interesting to see sharp_stick Aug 2013 #1
Woof. tanyev Aug 2013 #2
Don't mess with Brooklyn Heather MC Aug 2013 #29
You go girl! Blue Owl Aug 2013 #3
I am very much digging her courage Skittles Aug 2013 #4
+1 Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2013 #10
I think she has a feeling that someone will be digging up a corpse, and that's why she spoke up. MADem Aug 2013 #87
Aren't most churches scams for tax exemptions itsrobert Aug 2013 #101
I don't know. Are they? nt MADem Aug 2013 #137
Hmmmmm... FiveGoodMen Aug 2013 #5
Leah is not to be trifled with. Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #6
She is brave kimbutgar Aug 2013 #7
Why is this crime syndicate still even in business? Snake Plissken Aug 2013 #8
Yep TroglodyteScholar Aug 2013 #20
Go, Carrie, GO!1 n/t UTUSN Aug 2013 #9
That took serious ovaries -- Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2013 #11
Scary folks. Good luck. Faygo Kid Aug 2013 #12
Best non-Daily Fail source is KamaAina Aug 2013 #13
A question I've always had about scientology-- Jackpine Radical Aug 2013 #14
I don't get it either. SunSeeker Aug 2013 #15
Well, people give all their money to Bennie Hinn, too. longship Aug 2013 #16
... leftstreet Aug 2013 #18
I think its more the fact that several celebrities are involved 7962 Aug 2013 #89
They try pretty hard to conceal the nutso aspects from newbies Posteritatis Aug 2013 #22
didn't they see the disclaimer? d_r Aug 2013 #53
Good question! dorkzilla Aug 2013 #28
It's a slow process, and is dressed up to sound scientific. Starry Messenger Aug 2013 #34
Come with me for an audit and you might just find out. EOTE Aug 2013 #36
Yes…I…am…following… Jackpine Radical Aug 2013 #37
They find people in need and fill that need. tinrobot Aug 2013 #39
I was lured in to the office to take the personality test when I was 17 or 18. Quantess Aug 2013 #97
Man! I got lured in, too, when I was that age. calimary Aug 2013 #104
My friend and I were traveling through LA arikara Aug 2013 #128
Succinct explanation siligut Aug 2013 #127
All of these people are wrong! jberryhill Aug 2013 #51
Do you accept Monopoly money? red dog 1 Aug 2013 #108
Yes jberryhill Aug 2013 #111
I don't think Scientology is any crazier than any other religion....it's just a lot newer. TheDebbieDee Aug 2013 #52
Do some reading about it arikara Aug 2013 #130
If you're in showbiz, you may see it as your route to success nxylas Aug 2013 #74
Kinda like the politicians--including some of our Dem stars--who tblue37 Aug 2013 #76
Like Hillary for example… Jackpine Radical Aug 2013 #96
Now THAT'S a way to start clearing your karmic debt, Leah derby378 Aug 2013 #17
Man, she' super gutsy TroglodyteScholar Aug 2013 #19
She's not been seen for 6 YEARS?? AngryOldDem Aug 2013 #21
Something tells me "behind the scenes" = Rehabilitation Project Force derby378 Aug 2013 #23
+1000 Tom Ripley Aug 2013 #25
Or Sea Org? bettyellen Aug 2013 #50
Sea Org actually bred a lot of Scientology's current leaders derby378 Aug 2013 #131
Exactly. She IS probably doing Scientology work -- just not on a voluntary basis. stranger81 Aug 2013 #110
she is probably suffering from untreated debilitating mental illness, just like L. Ron Hubbard Snake Plissken Aug 2013 #27
Let's not forget ChazInAz Aug 2013 #114
just followed her on twitter for moral support SleeplessinSoCal Aug 2013 #24
Good idea..I just did that too....Thanks for the link. red dog 1 Aug 2013 #105
Scientology 1ProudAtheist Aug 2013 #26
Im not aware of any other mythology businesses which were solely created to screw people out of cash Snake Plissken Aug 2013 #30
They All Do 1ProudAtheist Aug 2013 #32
I can walk into any church in the country and indulge in their particular brand of mythology Snake Plissken Aug 2013 #38
No Sir 1ProudAtheist Aug 2013 #42
You can become a member of almost any church without paying a dime Snake Plissken Aug 2013 #44
Oh. I see. Sheldon Cooper Aug 2013 #45
Yes 1ProudAtheist Aug 2013 #48
all I can say is I'm glad my children who are atheists are not your kind of atheist. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #69
A zealot is a zealot, and all are equally distasteful. Sheldon Cooper Aug 2013 #86
You couldn't be more wrong. The Catholic Church, for example, requires no tithe. pnwmom Aug 2013 #59
Not completely true. When I was growing up, every single parish had an envelope system msanthrope Aug 2013 #88
When you were growing up was some time ago. And even then no one was prevented from pnwmom Aug 2013 #100
L. Ron Hubbard wasn't even a good science fiction writer! He was basically a hack! LongTomH Aug 2013 #129
Envelopes were used at the Catholic church I went to as well. WCLinolVir Aug 2013 #132
And you could put whatever you wanted to in the envelope -- nothing like with Scientology. n/t pnwmom Aug 2013 #138
Tell that to the Unitarians, and to most Protestant denominations. kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #61
I Know This Much 1ProudAtheist Aug 2013 #64
Shit. Dr. Strange Aug 2013 #66
+1. n/t pnwmom Aug 2013 #75
Boom! 7962 Aug 2013 #91
This cordelia Aug 2013 #98
you don't have to pay anything to attend most churches, and once you attend regularly you HiPointDem Aug 2013 #78
Many churches pressure their members to tithe more than they can afford. tblue37 Aug 2013 #77
What other church kicks out members simply for getting too old to work? pnwmom Aug 2013 #102
Thank you Snake, for pointing that out 7962 Aug 2013 #90
That's not true. You can go to a Catholic Church for Mass every Sunday in your life and never drop pnwmom Aug 2013 #57
Methodist too. xmas74 Aug 2013 #73
This is NOT true. You are mistaking the concept of charitable giving and/or tithing IdaBriggs Aug 2013 #93
Oh there are a number of televangelists out there for that sole purpose! Marrah_G Aug 2013 #65
It's a spectrum... tinrobot Aug 2013 #41
Guilt by Association 1ProudAtheist Aug 2013 #43
Lol. Union Scribe Aug 2013 #54
Islam and Christianity weren't begun as tax avoidance schemes. pnwmom Aug 2013 #55
OK, I Got IT 1ProudAtheist Aug 2013 #63
no one here said any religion was pure & sacred. they said you can be a member of most HiPointDem Aug 2013 #79
No, but it sure says a lot about him/her! 7962 Aug 2013 #92
The reason no one believes you is because your opinions do not coincide with the reality IdaBriggs Aug 2013 #94
Hoping they lose their tax exemption too. EC Aug 2013 #31
I hate to be negative about this, but Leah will be found dead soon. bbernardini Aug 2013 #33
Don't fly in any small planes, Leah KamaAina Aug 2013 #35
I wouldn't hesitate to say more dangerous than any mafia organization. Incitatus Aug 2013 #46
I don't doubt what you say about Scientology killing people, red dog 1 Aug 2013 #112
Hard to imagine TNNurse Aug 2013 #40
She better watch her back. SummerSnow Aug 2013 #47
She better watch herself. Dawson Leery Aug 2013 #49
Leah Remini is a scientologist burnodo Aug 2013 #56
I want to see Shelly Miscavige publicly say she is all right Generic Brad Aug 2013 #58
Pretty crazy cult. I learned everything I wanted to know about it from South Park... adirondacker Aug 2013 #60
Well, that led me to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keHQwdy2NX8 nt AnotherDreamWeaver Aug 2013 #68
Holy fuck PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #62
Maybe you shouldn't believe everything you read NickFury Aug 2013 #118
everyone who leaves it has bad things to say about it. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #119
You know it's a scam, right? cyberswede Aug 2013 #121
Hi Nick. How is life at Gold base? PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #123
wow - took you 7 years to work through all of those books.... NRaleighLiberal Aug 2013 #124
The wiki page is good enough for me maddezmom Aug 2013 #125
I don't think they will publicly state "we torture and harass". WCLinolVir Aug 2013 #133
How can you type while holding on to your E-Meters, Mr. Fury? Codeine Aug 2013 #139
been watching this for a while arely staircase Aug 2013 #67
So NOW she turns up Sophiegirl Aug 2013 #70
yes, but only lapd can see her. no one else. seems a bit odd. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #80
Leah Remini report that Scientology boss David Miscavige's wife is missing ruled unfounded oberliner Aug 2013 #71
they released a picture Enrique Aug 2013 #106
HAHAHAhaaaa!!!! WCLinolVir Aug 2013 #134
So where is she? KamaAina Aug 2013 #107
These mofos..... DeSwiss Aug 2013 #72
not the only apparently missing person in the organization either. the supposed #2 man is HiPointDem Aug 2013 #81
Heber...I wonder if he was raised Mormon? Drunken Irishman Aug 2013 #83
apparently so. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #84
I found this... Drunken Irishman Aug 2013 #85
Miscavige reminds me a great deal of Brigham Young... Tom Ripley Aug 2013 #115
As a Scientologist I'm offended by all this mocking. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2013 #82
Are you saying the church is going to be audited? Capt. Obvious Aug 2013 #95
I read "Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief" a couple months ago ... meegbear Aug 2013 #99
I read it earlier this week, and highly recommend it Tom Ripley Aug 2013 #116
Where the heck is this woman? bravenak Aug 2013 #103
The LAPD spoke to her oberliner Aug 2013 #113
Oh good. bravenak Aug 2013 #117
Good for her! ljm2002 Aug 2013 #109
From reading the whole thread, I see most have no direct knowledge of Scientologists. ConcernedCanuk Aug 2013 #120
The woman has been missing for six years. Motown_Johnny Aug 2013 #122
I read their crap, and was BORN in California. I was also raised Catholic. WCLinolVir Aug 2013 #135
I've always thought Leah Remini was a wonderful actress AndyA Aug 2013 #126
i think we can all agree Enrique Aug 2013 #136
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