Let me explain why folks are so upset, even outraged at massive suspisionless piracy and spying [View all]

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

Last edited Mon Aug 12, 2013, 12:11 PM - Edit history (1)

by our government.

Some may think it is obvious, but after reading DU since the story broke, it is obvious that a few need it spelled out for them, which I will now undertake in this thread.

I will also address the most common whitewashing that has been going on to try and dismiss the concerns and criticisms against these unprecedented spying programs after spelling out why folks are legitimately concerned with what we have recently learned.

In short, beginning on June 5th, 2013, we the people were presented with documentary evidence that our government is conducting massive, suspisionless spying on all American's phone and internet communications.

This becomes a huge story because this is the first time we have received TOP SECRET documentary evidence of the government's massive spying programs.

We are told that there are many more documents yet to be revealed yet, but that they provide even more evidence of wrong doing by the US government.

Now, when we couple this evidence with the many previous NSA whistleblowers claims of government wrong doing, it should be obvious as to why many people are concerned and very upset, right around the world as it turns out this is not strictly a domestic operation.

OK, I think that is a pretty plain spoken, and accurate summary of where we are right now.

So, now lets deal with the common claims to whitewash these concerns and even to dismiss them as being illegitimate.

1. This is all legal, as it is being overseen by a court, the FISA court, and this court was established all the way back in 1978, and no one made a big fuss over it in all these decades, why now, unless you are prone to hyperbole.

Well, the answer to that is that this ain't the same FISA court as it was when it was first established, when individualized warrants, based upon probably cause was required. Now that is no longer the case, and it gets worse.

Here is some more info on how the court has dramaticaly changed, and not for the better...

- Why The FISA Court Is Not What It Used To Be
http://www.npr.org/2013/06/18/191715681/why-the-fisa-court-is-not-what-it-used-to-be

- Fisa court oversight: a look inside a secret and empty process
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/19/fisa-court-oversight-process-secrecy

- Retired Federal Judge Explains Why The FISA Court Should Not Be Trusted
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130617/01375623502/retired-federal-judge-explains-why-fisa-court-should-not-be-trusted.shtml

Now on to phone metadata...

Some folks like to say that that data does not belong to you, it belongs to the phone companies. And that a court ruled as such in the the 70's.

Well there are two issues glossed over here, the first being that the data belongs ONLY to the phone company. That would be like claiming that our medical records belong ONLY to our doctors, which is patently absurd. But let's say that's true, and we have no privacy rights over our phone metadata, since the phone company owns it, why is the government pirating it then?

Sounds like a couple legit concerns to me right there.

Secondly, they like to point to a long ago court case where there was an INDIVIDUAL, TARGETED in a CRIMINAL case, where the judge ruled the police could legitimately access his phone pin information (notice that is different than all of it's metadat, too).

Well, I am no lawyer, but neither are many of our leaders, but that also seems to lend itself to some legitimate concerns e.g. that was a case decided against a single individual, who was TARGETED in a CRIMINAL case, and secondly, it was for his phone's pin data, which is much less than what is now collected as part of your phone calls metadata.

Sounds like there are legitimate reasons that this issue needs to be revisited, at the very least, since they are now collecting EVERYONES phone "metadata" not just pin, but according to whistleblowers they are also now harvesting, storing and analyzing your call's content as well. EVERYONE, not targeted, no probable cause.

Next, computer metadata. Some again try to narrowly focus the scope, contrary to what the evidence has shown, by saying this is only network metadata, e.g. your IP address, and who you are connecting to's IP address, and the like, similar to a phone call they try to make it sound. And they also argue that this data does not belong to you either, it belongs to your ISP.

Well, again, even if it doesn't belong to you, and it belongs to your ISP, why then is the government pirating your ISP's data, right?

And then there is the documented evidence that says this includes your CONTENT not just your metadata (not to mention that no one is saying it is restricted to just network metadata, only the white-washers)

Lastly, they try to claim that privacy no longer exists in the age of the internet. And with this claim they have absolutely nothing to back it up. They just throw it out there and just expect people to accept that it is true for some unknown reason, or they may try to claim that somehow the internet is inherently not private.

Well, that is easily disproven simply by asking them to take notice of how every legit website on the planet actually has a privacy policy. And now that our medical records are being transferred and/or stored in the cloud, that some how all those privacy policies, and laws surrounding them have just magically disappeared in the age of the internet.

Yet, the kicker is, if you ask them for any of your personal, private information, like your phone number, DOB, or even a internet datapoint like your email address, you get nothing back (though sometimes you will get insults hurled your way by the less creative of the bunch).

Privacy is a long cherished and celebrated American tradition and right, enshrined in our constitution via the 4th amendment, yet there are some determined to make us believe that simply because we live in the digital age that privacy somehow no longer applies.

Well, even if that were somehow true, that would be just another, in a long list, of valid concerns, which is upsetting some people, and causing outrage in others.

Considering all the above, please keep that in mind before you try to dismiss folks, especially your fellow DUers when they raise such concerns as that is simply being disingenuous.

Well, there it is...


now I know some will say that was TL R, especially since I wrote this after a long week at work, and very late/early at night, so I promise to come back later and update it where I can, and potentially address anything you kind reader may suggest that I have overlooked.

In closing I just want to advise any and all who wish to reply, to please keep our DU rules in mind, or maybe even more importantly, common curtesy, and your own dignity, in the front of your mind. This is not some kind of game, or joke, and these are NOT illegitimate concerns, these issues are very serious, and impacts each and everyone of us, as well as our loved ones future, so please... be civil.

Thank you.

With that, I bid everyone a good night/day.

On edit: Some links to the documented evidence of the totalitarian privacy pirates illegal activities that patriotic whistle blowers have brought to light.

A Guide to What We Now Know About the NSA's Dragnet Searches of Your Communication
http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/guide-what-we-now-know-about-nsas-dragnet-searches-your-communications

The NSA Files
http://www.theguardian.com/world/the-nsa-files