General Discussion

Logical

(22,457 posts)

58. Is it a fact that Snowden created the need for Obama to start discussing spying/privacy? Yes/no??

Reply to tridim (Reply #57)

Sat Aug 10, 2013, 10:22 AM

Aug 2013

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

232 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

"Edward Snowden broke the law by releasing classified information. This isn't under debate" [View all] ProSense Aug 2013 OP

Clapper broke the law by lying to Congress LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #1

Where are yours? ProSense Aug 2013 #2

Wyden doesn't have to "push" anything, Clapper admitted he lied LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #6

Cool, thanks for the link to your OP on the topic. ProSense Aug 2013 #10

This is not true: blackspade Aug 2013 #129

That is from the article the other poster linked to. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #134

I'm aware of that. blackspade Aug 2013 #150

I posted it ProSense Aug 2013 #151

"As for a "narrative" about Manning, WTF are you talking about" blackspade Aug 2013 #166

You don't know what you're talking about? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #173

Apparently a lot more than you. blackspade Aug 2013 #177

Doubt it. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #178

I don't doubt it for a minute. blackspade Aug 2013 #179

Rec AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #85

Please stop this silly cut and paste non-response after poking sticks at those who respond, ProSense MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #73

Please stop telling me what to do. No one is preventing you from debating a damn thing ProSense Aug 2013 #78

Your demands are breath-taking ones... rinse lather, repeat.. so... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #88

No, your characterizations are ProSense Aug 2013 #104

Wow... you really think so? MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #111

Damn right, I think so. ProSense Aug 2013 #121

Well, I've got news for ya... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #126

You can ProSense Aug 2013 #133

What's the problem with lying to Congress? MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #59

What crimes,,,,, Cryptoad Aug 2013 #125

Yeah, who would think that lying to Congress MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #141

Yet Cryptoad Aug 2013 #155

Evidence that Clapper lied to Congress? You must not have a TVEE or radio. Rex Aug 2013 #169

When are criminal charges Cryptoad Aug 2013 #210

One of us has a defective persona MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #172

personal insults are Cryptoad Aug 2013 #209

Do you seriously not know that Clapper fully admitted he lied to Congress? MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #211

He has never said he lied, Cryptoad Aug 2013 #217

What does "least untruthful" mean to you? MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #221

Its not a matter of IF he did it, its more a matter of who he colluded with riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #188

I keep asking for evidence of any illegality Cryptoad Aug 2013 #207

Congress will have to take it up with Clapper who himself admits he wasn't truthful riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #215

Not answering a Question correctly Cryptoad Aug 2013 #219

He deliberately lied. And a Rethug Congress pressing charges against a Rethug General? riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #226

Just your speculation,,,,, nt Cryptoad Aug 2013 #228

His statement, Cryptoad Aug 2013 #229

Said poster is trying their hardest to push a RWing meme Rex Aug 2013 #170

what RW MEME? Cryptoad Aug 2013 #208

the leader is infallible, there will be NO criticism allowed ok? nt msongs Aug 2013 #139

yes you are right, dear leader Snowden is infallible Californeeway Aug 2013 #168

+1 nt arely staircase Aug 2013 #195

Not to defend him, but Clapper did NOT "lie" to Congress... George II Aug 2013 #202

Clappers "lies" are already part of the mythology Californeeway Aug 2013 #212

LOL, you lost this prosense. About 2 weeks ago. Here is the deal..... Logical Aug 2013 #3

"He broke the law, no one is arguing that, so why do you post 10 posts a day ProSense Aug 2013 #4

LOL, I have always agreed he broke the law. I think it is in your DNA. I have never seen any.... Logical Aug 2013 #7

Neo-DU was completely WRONG about chained CPI, as they are about everything. tridim Aug 2013 #44

LOL, yes, you and prosense are the only ones smart enough to discuss this. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #45

Well, do you understand that posting facts is a GOOD THING? tridim Aug 2013 #57

Is it a fact that Snowden created the need for Obama to start discussing spying/privacy? Yes/no?? Logical Aug 2013 #58

Obama was talking about "spying/privacy" long BEFORE Snowden's crimes. tridim Aug 2013 #62

LOL, ok, then that was proof you are a joke. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #63

Do you care about DU's integrity? Yes or no? tridim Aug 2013 #64

In 2012 Obama signed new whistleblower protections into law Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #83

You call that INTEGRITY? MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #74

You admit that you are just a troll? PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #8

And links back to the her 100s of other posts on the same topic. Unbelievable. No other poster... Logical Aug 2013 #11

Link flooding. The blog sport of (insert your words here). n/t L0oniX Aug 2013 #176

This message was self-deleted by its author ProSense Aug 2013 #15

That's what it sounds like to me oldhippie Aug 2013 #16

And the jury results are in.... aikoaiko Aug 2013 #25

So it's ok to call DUers trolls now?! nt SunSeeker Aug 2013 #109

You prefer, "Spammer?" AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #135

I'd prefer a consistently applied standard. nt SunSeeker Aug 2013 #167

A jury system with a randomly selected jury is never going to give consistent results... nessa Aug 2013 #197

whether a post get hidden for calling someone a troll is very context dependent in DU3 aikoaiko Aug 2013 #143

It is not so much context dependent as who the subject of the epithet is. SunSeeker Aug 2013 #171

LOL @ "paint the walls of DU in a soothing pink color." WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #132

wow..there are other posters with just as may PRO Snowden posts..do you impy they are trolls too? Sheepshank Aug 2013 #32

Bullshit. Who? You know there is no one with more Snowden posts. Nice try! n-t Logical Aug 2013 #40

You appear upset? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #42

not as upset as you were PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #46

What's that? Actually, ProSense Aug 2013 #55

and you are still doing it. PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #112

Upset? I asked for a name. I am sure there will not be one. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #51

as you well know, naming names isn't approved by DU Terms...right or not? Sheepshank Aug 2013 #68

Who did I call a troll? n-t Logical Aug 2013 #71

You know you "name" implies so much Sheepshank Aug 2013 #75

Wow, clever. Did I hurt your feelings? n-t Logical Aug 2013 #76

nope, no feeling hurt here.....confirmations are always satisfying Sheepshank Aug 2013 #91

Considering your login..... Logical Aug 2013 #144

try a little unique twist on your insults Sheepshank Aug 2013 #158

I have read your posts. Nothing original. Nothing except whining. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #160

nope that wasn't clever either Sheepshank Aug 2013 #162

I believe this is your goal... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #77

No, my "goal" is to post like everyone else and not have people responding with bullshit ProSense Aug 2013 #81

Calling a poster out for what she/he says is not a personal attack. MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #108

Your goal AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #116

You are a poor mindreader, and ProSense Aug 2013 #146

No 'mind reading' necessary... AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #153

To list their names would be a call out. Scurrilous Aug 2013 #157

ProSense is a troll ?!!! I've heard it all now. AlinPA Aug 2013 #87

I know, that asshole huh... Californeeway Aug 2013 #213

Try ignore Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #107

I do not use ignore. I do use the trash can. PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #113

The attempts to control the dialogue Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #118

?? PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #120

Yes, your passive aggressive cheap shot remained Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #123

+1 Jamaal510 Aug 2013 #156

More than just the "letter" of the law.....He signed his name to the very law he broke.. VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #182

+1000000000000000 Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #21

How come your stats have suddenly changed? Sheepshank Aug 2013 #35

Alert it or quit whining. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #53

haa haa....pull your underwear outta your butt crack and relax a bit. Sheepshank Aug 2013 #69

Ahh, someone needs a nap! n-t Logical Aug 2013 #72

How come you always attack the messenger? MNBrewer Aug 2013 #67

really? how so? Sheepshank Aug 2013 #70

Sheepshank... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #79

"The ACLU admits." That phrasing is very odd. "The ACLU claims" pnwmom Aug 2013 #66

FALSE people ARE arguing that Snowden did NOT break the law. PERIOD end of story uponit7771 Aug 2013 #220

LOL, nice try. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #223

Non response to facts not in dispute uponit7771 Aug 2013 #225

Snowdex is not for people with high blood pressure. Marr Aug 2013 #5

lol. I'm remembering all those posts you wrote about how he cali Aug 2013 #9

It is beyond explaining at this point. I honestly think she is just messing with us. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #13

Funny, ProSense Aug 2013 #14

I think you can simultaneously dislike Pooty-Poot and still like how he sheltered Snowden. dairydog91 Aug 2013 #18

And that matters, why? dairydog91 Aug 2013 #12

Then why the HELL do you keep bringing it up? oldhippie Aug 2013 #17

Why shouldn't I? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #19

Disrupting and spamming oldhippie Aug 2013 #20

Sounds like you're attaching bogus descriptions to stuff you don't like seeing. ProSense Aug 2013 #22

The forum will decide ... oldhippie Aug 2013 #24

What the hell does that mean? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #27

You really don't get it, do you? oldhippie Aug 2013 #37

Posting facts is not spam oldhippie. The day they are is the day civil society dies. nt tridim Aug 2013 #47

You are correct, but over and over and over again ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #90

Because it's a well understood point. dairydog91 Aug 2013 #23

Snowden is a hero. The NSA is spying on Americans. ProSense Aug 2013 #26

Your quoted link to Bruce Schniers blog that you left out Paulie Aug 2013 #39

That's his opinion. Time will tell. In the OP he states a fact about the law. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #48

His opinion carries a lot of weight Paulie Aug 2013 #52

Wait, are you now claiming that the information from Snowden is real? Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #28

Would Not Duplicity Be Considered Pro-Actively Sensible When Defending The Indefensible? cantbeserious Aug 2013 #31

Oh - You Mean - The Illegal Law That Desecrated The 4th Amendment - We Need More Law Breakers cantbeserious Aug 2013 #29

^^^^^ PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #65

Yes indeed...and consider... dougolat Aug 2013 #124

This is what I have been thinking. Fringe Aug 2013 #30

Would That Mean That One Still Trusts The Government - Some No Longer Share That Sentiment cantbeserious Aug 2013 #33

Why would you ever trust the government? Fringe Aug 2013 #50

Suppose you had classified data that proved that the government was engaged in Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #38

Its not for a person to decide what is ethical or moral based on their views. Fringe Aug 2013 #60

Wow. Exchange ethical with Constitutional then Deny and Shred Aug 2013 #92

If every individual with a top secret decided on Fringe Aug 2013 #186

um yes it is. That is a defining characteristic of what it means to be human. Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #103

Most DUers are criminals, so I don't think the label will move very many here. ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #34

This is spam. Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #36

This is nonsense. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #41

No really it is a well written deeply engaged and heartfelt essay about current events. Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #43

Then report it as such. You have tools available to you. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #49

We do? Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #56

Why, yes...if you think what is posted is in violation of the TOS, then all you have to do is msanthrope Aug 2013 #82

I didnt think of it that way Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #86

I would argue that if you truly think something is "spam" then don't you have msanthrope Aug 2013 #89

Two ways to look at it. One is that way, the other view Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #95

But you are lifting a finger, as evidenced by your replies. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #106

This message was self-deleted by its author DemocratsForProgress Aug 2013 #137

And then there's this thread at this site Autumn Aug 2013 #163

The author of that thread is a tombstoned troll Puglover Aug 2013 #214

The author of that thread is an administrator at that site. Autumn Aug 2013 #216

Yeah I edited my post. Puglover Aug 2013 #218

And? Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #164

Oh my God. I've never seen that thread before!! Number23 Aug 2013 #181

It may be spam, someone may alert ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #100

Clearly, there is a difference between truly believing when something is spam Sheepshank Aug 2013 #101

no really one can think that a poster posting the same stuff over and over and over again Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #105

Your posts seems to have a consistent meme too Sheepshank Aug 2013 #96

I don't post week after week, day after day, the same meme Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #99

actually, you do Sheepshank Aug 2013 #102

That is how I feel about the "Snowden is a patriot" posts. SunSeeker Aug 2013 #115

So did many others who did the right thing. Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #54

Rep. Lewis broke the law many times and that isn't under debate either tularetom Aug 2013 #61

Let's review what's "legal". Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #80

Did what you post change the fact that Snowden broke the law? ProSense Aug 2013 #84

slavery used to be legal, but many people "broke the law" on that issue. "the law" is a convenience msongs Aug 2013 #140

Know what else is legal? Everything Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld etc. did! Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #93

Guess Harriet Tubman and the rest of the Underground Railroad should have riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #94

Which of them fled their country? nt Progressive dog Aug 2013 #110

Oh so NOW the issue is leaving the country and not evading "justice"? riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #128

The issue is the personal risk taken nt Progressive dog Aug 2013 #131

That was not what ProSense's OP was about riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #138

The issue was whether Snowden broke the law Progressive dog Aug 2013 #142

Fine. MY point was that other famous "law breakers" and civil dissidents riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #147

And I disagreed, Snowden has been charged with Progressive dog Aug 2013 #149

Tubman was charged with breaking the law. From the "slaves states" riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #152

You're kidding right? laundry_queen Aug 2013 #183

No I'm not, the ex slaves had Progressive dog Aug 2013 #185

So those who aided them in escaping should have turned themselves in? riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #190

Exactly what part of the difference between Progressive dog Aug 2013 #196

Those people who helped the slaves escape were facilitating the crime of theft riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #199

So what, the morality is far from equivalent. Progressive dog Aug 2013 #224

Finally we come to the crux of it! riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #227

Criminal acts are not civil disobedience. Progressive dog Aug 2013 #231

Gotcha. So in your view Tubman, the entire Underground Railroad members riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #232

This message was self-deleted by its author laundry_queen Aug 2013 #200

Yawn......we know. snappyturtle Aug 2013 #97

YAwn ......and we don't care. L0oniX Aug 2013 #174

Love the way you assume the authority of the judicial branch Android3.14 Aug 2013 #98

Crimes against the entirety of the American public has no business being classified AppleBottom Aug 2013 #114

Under the NDAA it is also fully legal for the US government to lie to our faces: Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #117

Snowden broke the law pmorlan1 Aug 2013 #119

Edward Snowden broke the law by releasing classified information. This isn't under debate blackspade Aug 2013 #122

ProSense, I think you may be fighting a non-win battle here. But I think you are correct on kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #127

DU rec... SidDithers Aug 2013 #130

Lol, typical deep analysis by you! n-t Logical Aug 2013 #145

It's always nice to have a foreign analysis ...ain't it. b/t L0oniX Aug 2013 #175

We need to restore the rule of law before we can selectively in force some.... midnight Aug 2013 #136

That's exactly why he fled Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #148

Because Snowden broke the law there IS a debate...sort of. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #154

And Obama was never going to discuss spying until Snowden showed up...... Logical Aug 2013 #159

Yes and this is why he fleed. I think he has enough friends that he will never hrmjustin Aug 2013 #161

But St snowden thought he was going to get a sweet gig in Iceland.. Cha Aug 2013 #165

What he did reeks of politics. Fringe Aug 2013 #189

"reeks." Glad you like being spied upon. WinkyDink Aug 2013 #192

Thanks for the grammar correction, I actually appreciate that. Fringe Aug 2013 #198

Snowden wasn't allowed to go through any whistleblowing channels riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #194

Releasing and also stealing from your employer is theft at least it used to be............ 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #180

Exactly! Fringe Aug 2013 #187

O, FGS. Do you think we SHOULD be completely unaware of what the NSA is doing?? WinkyDink Aug 2013 #193

But did the law create a political crime? JDPriestly Aug 2013 #184

Snowden "broke the law" when a fair and impartial jury declares him guilty, and not before. WinkyDink Aug 2013 #191

So, if I murder someone, Fringe Aug 2013 #201

According to our legal system, that is correct. You would, one presumes, be an official suspect. WinkyDink Aug 2013 #203

Well then Fringe Aug 2013 #205

The big difference between Snowden and Ghandi or civil rights leaders is....... George II Aug 2013 #204

I don't know that it is not "under debate". kentuck Aug 2013 #206

Many in the Bush administration broke the law... SomethingFishy Aug 2013 #222

Don't you understand, it's all about winning the conversation AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #230