General Discussion

dougolat

(716 posts)

124. Yes indeed...and consider...

Sat Aug 10, 2013, 11:53 AM

Aug 2013

...it's been going on for a decade

...part of the leak was training material

...there are multiple programs duplicating these processes

...any fig leaf of propriety imposed on the official govt. agencies and people wont touch the private contractors and Carlyle operatives, or even the individuals with purient curiosity or a personal axe to grind

...the bad guys are laughing because they have back doors in place and nothing is likely to even slow them down

yet we wonder why war crimes and bank frauds have such impunity, when Spitzer was about to prosecute it only took a few bank records and E-mails leaked to take him out of action.
This spying can be used to turn the head of any judge, legislator, witness, cop, or lawyer. Yet some people want to squint just right and pretend it isn't so.

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"Edward Snowden broke the law by releasing classified information. This isn't under debate" [View all] ProSense Aug 2013 OP

Clapper broke the law by lying to Congress LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #1

Where are yours? ProSense Aug 2013 #2

Wyden doesn't have to "push" anything, Clapper admitted he lied LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #6

Cool, thanks for the link to your OP on the topic. ProSense Aug 2013 #10

This is not true: blackspade Aug 2013 #129

That is from the article the other poster linked to. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #134

I'm aware of that. blackspade Aug 2013 #150

I posted it ProSense Aug 2013 #151

"As for a "narrative" about Manning, WTF are you talking about" blackspade Aug 2013 #166

You don't know what you're talking about? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #173

Apparently a lot more than you. blackspade Aug 2013 #177

Doubt it. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #178

I don't doubt it for a minute. blackspade Aug 2013 #179

Rec AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #85

Please stop this silly cut and paste non-response after poking sticks at those who respond, ProSense MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #73

Please stop telling me what to do. No one is preventing you from debating a damn thing ProSense Aug 2013 #78

Your demands are breath-taking ones... rinse lather, repeat.. so... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #88

No, your characterizations are ProSense Aug 2013 #104

Wow... you really think so? MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #111

Damn right, I think so. ProSense Aug 2013 #121

Well, I've got news for ya... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #126

You can ProSense Aug 2013 #133

What's the problem with lying to Congress? MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #59

What crimes,,,,, Cryptoad Aug 2013 #125

Yeah, who would think that lying to Congress MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #141

Yet Cryptoad Aug 2013 #155

Evidence that Clapper lied to Congress? You must not have a TVEE or radio. Rex Aug 2013 #169

When are criminal charges Cryptoad Aug 2013 #210

One of us has a defective persona MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #172

personal insults are Cryptoad Aug 2013 #209

Do you seriously not know that Clapper fully admitted he lied to Congress? MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #211

He has never said he lied, Cryptoad Aug 2013 #217

What does "least untruthful" mean to you? MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #221

Its not a matter of IF he did it, its more a matter of who he colluded with riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #188

I keep asking for evidence of any illegality Cryptoad Aug 2013 #207

Congress will have to take it up with Clapper who himself admits he wasn't truthful riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #215

Not answering a Question correctly Cryptoad Aug 2013 #219

He deliberately lied. And a Rethug Congress pressing charges against a Rethug General? riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #226

Just your speculation,,,,, nt Cryptoad Aug 2013 #228

His statement, Cryptoad Aug 2013 #229

Said poster is trying their hardest to push a RWing meme Rex Aug 2013 #170

what RW MEME? Cryptoad Aug 2013 #208

the leader is infallible, there will be NO criticism allowed ok? nt msongs Aug 2013 #139

yes you are right, dear leader Snowden is infallible Californeeway Aug 2013 #168

+1 nt arely staircase Aug 2013 #195

Not to defend him, but Clapper did NOT "lie" to Congress... George II Aug 2013 #202

Clappers "lies" are already part of the mythology Californeeway Aug 2013 #212

LOL, you lost this prosense. About 2 weeks ago. Here is the deal..... Logical Aug 2013 #3

"He broke the law, no one is arguing that, so why do you post 10 posts a day ProSense Aug 2013 #4

LOL, I have always agreed he broke the law. I think it is in your DNA. I have never seen any.... Logical Aug 2013 #7

Neo-DU was completely WRONG about chained CPI, as they are about everything. tridim Aug 2013 #44

LOL, yes, you and prosense are the only ones smart enough to discuss this. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #45

Well, do you understand that posting facts is a GOOD THING? tridim Aug 2013 #57

Is it a fact that Snowden created the need for Obama to start discussing spying/privacy? Yes/no?? Logical Aug 2013 #58

Obama was talking about "spying/privacy" long BEFORE Snowden's crimes. tridim Aug 2013 #62

LOL, ok, then that was proof you are a joke. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #63

Do you care about DU's integrity? Yes or no? tridim Aug 2013 #64

In 2012 Obama signed new whistleblower protections into law Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #83

You call that INTEGRITY? MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #74

You admit that you are just a troll? PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #8

And links back to the her 100s of other posts on the same topic. Unbelievable. No other poster... Logical Aug 2013 #11

Link flooding. The blog sport of (insert your words here). n/t L0oniX Aug 2013 #176

This message was self-deleted by its author ProSense Aug 2013 #15

That's what it sounds like to me oldhippie Aug 2013 #16

And the jury results are in.... aikoaiko Aug 2013 #25

So it's ok to call DUers trolls now?! nt SunSeeker Aug 2013 #109

You prefer, "Spammer?" AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #135

I'd prefer a consistently applied standard. nt SunSeeker Aug 2013 #167

A jury system with a randomly selected jury is never going to give consistent results... nessa Aug 2013 #197

whether a post get hidden for calling someone a troll is very context dependent in DU3 aikoaiko Aug 2013 #143

It is not so much context dependent as who the subject of the epithet is. SunSeeker Aug 2013 #171

LOL @ "paint the walls of DU in a soothing pink color." WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #132

wow..there are other posters with just as may PRO Snowden posts..do you impy they are trolls too? Sheepshank Aug 2013 #32

Bullshit. Who? You know there is no one with more Snowden posts. Nice try! n-t Logical Aug 2013 #40

You appear upset? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #42

not as upset as you were PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #46

What's that? Actually, ProSense Aug 2013 #55

and you are still doing it. PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #112

Upset? I asked for a name. I am sure there will not be one. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #51

as you well know, naming names isn't approved by DU Terms...right or not? Sheepshank Aug 2013 #68

Who did I call a troll? n-t Logical Aug 2013 #71

You know you "name" implies so much Sheepshank Aug 2013 #75

Wow, clever. Did I hurt your feelings? n-t Logical Aug 2013 #76

nope, no feeling hurt here.....confirmations are always satisfying Sheepshank Aug 2013 #91

Considering your login..... Logical Aug 2013 #144

try a little unique twist on your insults Sheepshank Aug 2013 #158

I have read your posts. Nothing original. Nothing except whining. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #160

nope that wasn't clever either Sheepshank Aug 2013 #162

I believe this is your goal... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #77

No, my "goal" is to post like everyone else and not have people responding with bullshit ProSense Aug 2013 #81

Calling a poster out for what she/he says is not a personal attack. MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #108

Your goal AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #116

You are a poor mindreader, and ProSense Aug 2013 #146

No 'mind reading' necessary... AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #153

To list their names would be a call out. Scurrilous Aug 2013 #157

ProSense is a troll ?!!! I've heard it all now. AlinPA Aug 2013 #87

I know, that asshole huh... Californeeway Aug 2013 #213

Try ignore Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #107

I do not use ignore. I do use the trash can. PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #113

The attempts to control the dialogue Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #118

?? PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #120

Yes, your passive aggressive cheap shot remained Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #123

+1 Jamaal510 Aug 2013 #156

More than just the "letter" of the law.....He signed his name to the very law he broke.. VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #182

+1000000000000000 Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #21

How come your stats have suddenly changed? Sheepshank Aug 2013 #35

Alert it or quit whining. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #53

haa haa....pull your underwear outta your butt crack and relax a bit. Sheepshank Aug 2013 #69

Ahh, someone needs a nap! n-t Logical Aug 2013 #72

How come you always attack the messenger? MNBrewer Aug 2013 #67

really? how so? Sheepshank Aug 2013 #70

Sheepshank... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #79

"The ACLU admits." That phrasing is very odd. "The ACLU claims" pnwmom Aug 2013 #66

FALSE people ARE arguing that Snowden did NOT break the law. PERIOD end of story uponit7771 Aug 2013 #220

LOL, nice try. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #223

Non response to facts not in dispute uponit7771 Aug 2013 #225

Snowdex is not for people with high blood pressure. Marr Aug 2013 #5

lol. I'm remembering all those posts you wrote about how he cali Aug 2013 #9

It is beyond explaining at this point. I honestly think she is just messing with us. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #13

Funny, ProSense Aug 2013 #14

I think you can simultaneously dislike Pooty-Poot and still like how he sheltered Snowden. dairydog91 Aug 2013 #18

And that matters, why? dairydog91 Aug 2013 #12

Then why the HELL do you keep bringing it up? oldhippie Aug 2013 #17

Why shouldn't I? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #19

Disrupting and spamming oldhippie Aug 2013 #20

Sounds like you're attaching bogus descriptions to stuff you don't like seeing. ProSense Aug 2013 #22

The forum will decide ... oldhippie Aug 2013 #24

What the hell does that mean? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #27

You really don't get it, do you? oldhippie Aug 2013 #37

Posting facts is not spam oldhippie. The day they are is the day civil society dies. nt tridim Aug 2013 #47

You are correct, but over and over and over again ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #90

Because it's a well understood point. dairydog91 Aug 2013 #23

Snowden is a hero. The NSA is spying on Americans. ProSense Aug 2013 #26

Your quoted link to Bruce Schniers blog that you left out Paulie Aug 2013 #39

That's his opinion. Time will tell. In the OP he states a fact about the law. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #48

His opinion carries a lot of weight Paulie Aug 2013 #52

Wait, are you now claiming that the information from Snowden is real? Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #28

Would Not Duplicity Be Considered Pro-Actively Sensible When Defending The Indefensible? cantbeserious Aug 2013 #31

Oh - You Mean - The Illegal Law That Desecrated The 4th Amendment - We Need More Law Breakers cantbeserious Aug 2013 #29

^^^^^ PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #65

Yes indeed...and consider... dougolat Aug 2013 #124

This is what I have been thinking. Fringe Aug 2013 #30

Would That Mean That One Still Trusts The Government - Some No Longer Share That Sentiment cantbeserious Aug 2013 #33

Why would you ever trust the government? Fringe Aug 2013 #50

Suppose you had classified data that proved that the government was engaged in Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #38

Its not for a person to decide what is ethical or moral based on their views. Fringe Aug 2013 #60

Wow. Exchange ethical with Constitutional then Deny and Shred Aug 2013 #92

If every individual with a top secret decided on Fringe Aug 2013 #186

um yes it is. That is a defining characteristic of what it means to be human. Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #103

Most DUers are criminals, so I don't think the label will move very many here. ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #34

This is spam. Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #36

This is nonsense. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #41

No really it is a well written deeply engaged and heartfelt essay about current events. Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #43

Then report it as such. You have tools available to you. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #49

We do? Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #56

Why, yes...if you think what is posted is in violation of the TOS, then all you have to do is msanthrope Aug 2013 #82

I didnt think of it that way Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #86

I would argue that if you truly think something is "spam" then don't you have msanthrope Aug 2013 #89

Two ways to look at it. One is that way, the other view Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #95

But you are lifting a finger, as evidenced by your replies. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #106

This message was self-deleted by its author DemocratsForProgress Aug 2013 #137

And then there's this thread at this site Autumn Aug 2013 #163

The author of that thread is a tombstoned troll Puglover Aug 2013 #214

The author of that thread is an administrator at that site. Autumn Aug 2013 #216

Yeah I edited my post. Puglover Aug 2013 #218

And? Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #164

Oh my God. I've never seen that thread before!! Number23 Aug 2013 #181

It may be spam, someone may alert ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #100

Clearly, there is a difference between truly believing when something is spam Sheepshank Aug 2013 #101

no really one can think that a poster posting the same stuff over and over and over again Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #105

Your posts seems to have a consistent meme too Sheepshank Aug 2013 #96

I don't post week after week, day after day, the same meme Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #99

actually, you do Sheepshank Aug 2013 #102

That is how I feel about the "Snowden is a patriot" posts. SunSeeker Aug 2013 #115

So did many others who did the right thing. Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #54

Rep. Lewis broke the law many times and that isn't under debate either tularetom Aug 2013 #61

Let's review what's "legal". Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #80

Did what you post change the fact that Snowden broke the law? ProSense Aug 2013 #84

slavery used to be legal, but many people "broke the law" on that issue. "the law" is a convenience msongs Aug 2013 #140

Know what else is legal? Everything Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld etc. did! Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #93

Guess Harriet Tubman and the rest of the Underground Railroad should have riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #94

Which of them fled their country? nt Progressive dog Aug 2013 #110

Oh so NOW the issue is leaving the country and not evading "justice"? riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #128

The issue is the personal risk taken nt Progressive dog Aug 2013 #131

That was not what ProSense's OP was about riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #138

The issue was whether Snowden broke the law Progressive dog Aug 2013 #142

Fine. MY point was that other famous "law breakers" and civil dissidents riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #147

And I disagreed, Snowden has been charged with Progressive dog Aug 2013 #149

Tubman was charged with breaking the law. From the "slaves states" riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #152

You're kidding right? laundry_queen Aug 2013 #183

No I'm not, the ex slaves had Progressive dog Aug 2013 #185

So those who aided them in escaping should have turned themselves in? riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #190

Exactly what part of the difference between Progressive dog Aug 2013 #196

Those people who helped the slaves escape were facilitating the crime of theft riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #199

So what, the morality is far from equivalent. Progressive dog Aug 2013 #224

Finally we come to the crux of it! riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #227

Criminal acts are not civil disobedience. Progressive dog Aug 2013 #231

Gotcha. So in your view Tubman, the entire Underground Railroad members riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #232

This message was self-deleted by its author laundry_queen Aug 2013 #200

Yawn......we know. snappyturtle Aug 2013 #97

YAwn ......and we don't care. L0oniX Aug 2013 #174

Love the way you assume the authority of the judicial branch Android3.14 Aug 2013 #98

Crimes against the entirety of the American public has no business being classified AppleBottom Aug 2013 #114

Under the NDAA it is also fully legal for the US government to lie to our faces: Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #117

Snowden broke the law pmorlan1 Aug 2013 #119

Edward Snowden broke the law by releasing classified information. This isn't under debate blackspade Aug 2013 #122

ProSense, I think you may be fighting a non-win battle here. But I think you are correct on kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #127

DU rec... SidDithers Aug 2013 #130

Lol, typical deep analysis by you! n-t Logical Aug 2013 #145

It's always nice to have a foreign analysis ...ain't it. b/t L0oniX Aug 2013 #175

We need to restore the rule of law before we can selectively in force some.... midnight Aug 2013 #136

That's exactly why he fled Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #148

Because Snowden broke the law there IS a debate...sort of. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #154

And Obama was never going to discuss spying until Snowden showed up...... Logical Aug 2013 #159

Yes and this is why he fleed. I think he has enough friends that he will never hrmjustin Aug 2013 #161

But St snowden thought he was going to get a sweet gig in Iceland.. Cha Aug 2013 #165

What he did reeks of politics. Fringe Aug 2013 #189

"reeks." Glad you like being spied upon. WinkyDink Aug 2013 #192

Thanks for the grammar correction, I actually appreciate that. Fringe Aug 2013 #198

Snowden wasn't allowed to go through any whistleblowing channels riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #194

Releasing and also stealing from your employer is theft at least it used to be............ 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #180

Exactly! Fringe Aug 2013 #187

O, FGS. Do you think we SHOULD be completely unaware of what the NSA is doing?? WinkyDink Aug 2013 #193

But did the law create a political crime? JDPriestly Aug 2013 #184

Snowden "broke the law" when a fair and impartial jury declares him guilty, and not before. WinkyDink Aug 2013 #191

So, if I murder someone, Fringe Aug 2013 #201

According to our legal system, that is correct. You would, one presumes, be an official suspect. WinkyDink Aug 2013 #203

Well then Fringe Aug 2013 #205

The big difference between Snowden and Ghandi or civil rights leaders is....... George II Aug 2013 #204

I don't know that it is not "under debate". kentuck Aug 2013 #206

Many in the Bush administration broke the law... SomethingFishy Aug 2013 #222

Don't you understand, it's all about winning the conversation AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #230