General Discussion

Zorra

(27,670 posts)

66. Most everyone who engages in acts of civil diobedience takes that, and other risks.

Sat Aug 10, 2013, 07:34 PM

Aug 2013

We are aware of these risks going in, and know that we might be arrested, jailed, beaten, pepper-sprayed, tased, water cannoned, or killed.

If we get busted, well, we knew it could happen. If we don't get busted, well, we know we were lucky that time.

We'll risk getting busted, but we're not stupid enough to voluntarily walk into a cage for no good reason. Cages are not fun.

I've been beaten with nightsticks twice. I have had my face ground into the dirt. I've stood next to people who were pepper sprayed. I have stood next to people who were roughly taken down to to the ground, handcuffed and arrested. I have given first aid to people who have been pepper sprayed. I have been tear gassed. Any one of those victims I mentioned who weren't me could have been me.

If you are going to tell me that I have not engaged in civil disobedience simply because I have not been jailed for it, then, with all due respect, you can go fuck yourself.

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There Seems to Be a Lack of Information on Civil Disobedience. [View all] MineralMan Aug 2013 OP

Emphatic K n R! People who read Walden, however, should remember that HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #1

That's true. Emerson finally paid the tax MineralMan Aug 2013 #4

LOL - I can only hope my epitaph also includes 'Bit of a bumbler' :) - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #6

Me, too. MineralMan Aug 2013 #8

One person misusing the phrase = a lack of information? Bonobo Aug 2013 #2

It wasn't just one person. There's an entire thread above the first MineralMan Aug 2013 #3

I have no disagreement with your correction. nt Bonobo Aug 2013 #5

Thoreau was a cheerleader for John Brown MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #7

Yes, it was interesting. MineralMan Aug 2013 #9

And? Scootaloo Aug 2013 #52

Hell yeah. Or to put it bluntly... backscatter712 Aug 2013 #61

A few Quotes, etc. about Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience" MineralMan Aug 2013 #10

They're not going to teach that in schools. NYC_SKP Aug 2013 #11

They used to teach it in schools. MineralMan Aug 2013 #12

Well, often it is truly too difficult for them to grasp. NYC_SKP Aug 2013 #15

You sound like a good teacher. That's excellent. MineralMan Aug 2013 #16

Great post. CrispyQ Aug 2013 #33

I'm not sure the problem is 19th Century writing being too difficult to grasp. JoeyT Aug 2013 #23

Well, I was being a bit facetious with that. MineralMan Aug 2013 #25

Most high schools teach about the civil rights battles of the 60's. pnwmom Aug 2013 #18

I'm loathe to say "most" but I'll bet that they only "cover" it if they address it at all. NYC_SKP Aug 2013 #22

"Covering a topic...is different from teaching" -- so true. Now everything is 'covered,' but Nay Aug 2013 #28

I acknowledge that I can't speak for how it's taught in most schools or today. pnwmom Aug 2013 #67

Since the 90's the civil rights era of the 60's has largely been glossed over..... blackspade Aug 2013 #62

Wikipedia has a very informative article on actual civil disobedience, not just Thoreau's concept Zorra Aug 2013 #13

Yes. I saw that. There's tons of good info out there. MineralMan Aug 2013 #14

And it also says that being arrested should be expected: pnwmom Aug 2013 #19

That concept, too, originates in Thoreau's writings. MineralMan Aug 2013 #21

The definitions of civil disobedience are not altered simply because some people expect to go to Zorra Aug 2013 #37

And they aren't altered simply because some people decide to run away. n/t pnwmom Aug 2013 #39

True. Neither going to jail, nor fleeing to avoid prosecution, change the definition Zorra Aug 2013 #49

A key difference between civil disobedience and simple lawbreaking is the willingness pnwmom Aug 2013 #50

Would you apply that to escaping slaves in the 19th century? antigone382 Aug 2013 #63

Most everyone who engages in acts of civil diobedience takes that, and other risks. Zorra Aug 2013 #66

But is no more limited by Thoreau than democracy is limited by Pericles cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #17

Oh, dear. Did I say he owned the term? MineralMan Aug 2013 #20

You did not say that, and I wasn't meaning to criticize you cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #27

You jumped to the point I was about to make. Like Harriet Tubman riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #31

Letter from Birmingham Jail is also instructive: msanthrope Aug 2013 #24

Indeed. I remember reading it not long after it was written. MineralMan Aug 2013 #26

I have found his speeches moving, but I find this letter to be a moral touchstone. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #29

Yes, it is. MineralMan Aug 2013 #30

Yes, it is, but you have to ProSense Aug 2013 #47

I'm so glad you posted this... I don't pretend it will invite needed comment... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #32

Thanks for your reply. MineralMan Aug 2013 #35

Very interesting thread. CrispyQ Aug 2013 #34

Thanks! I wanted to get some basic information posted. MineralMan Aug 2013 #36

I had a professor who said Deny and Shred Aug 2013 #38

Exactly. Civil resistance requires an audience. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #41

I'll say it again: disobeying, then accepting punishment is a useful tactic in certain situations. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #40

You're no doubt correct. But civil disobedience is MineralMan Aug 2013 #42

Call it part of the family of tactics of non-violent direct action or civil resistance to injustice. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #43

Call it whatever you want. MineralMan Aug 2013 #44

Fair enough. Thoreau's required reading. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #45

Yup. That's my point. MineralMan Aug 2013 #46

Yep. And my point - Snowden shouldn't be limited to Thoreau's tactics. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #48

. Little Star Aug 2013 #60

civil disobedience is disobeying a law or order of gov't for political reasons. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #56

Uh, yeah. We've moved on from there, and are talking MineralMan Aug 2013 #57

yes, 'moved on' to new distractions. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #58

Schools? Real schools? Do they have them anymore? I thought everything was PUBLICLY valerief Aug 2013 #51

Yeah, OK...nothing to do with my thread, though. MineralMan Aug 2013 #53

Wait, were you kidding that they don't teach about Thoreau in public school anymore??? reformist2 Aug 2013 #54

I don't think Thoreau is on the curriculum MineralMan Aug 2013 #55

of course it is on the curriculum of many schools. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #59

What I notice about DU posts across the opinion spectrum about civil disobedience is that most Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #64

That's a good idea treestar Aug 2013 #65