face it: Snowden/Greenwald forced Obama's/NSA's hand, and built real power to change things

[Californeeway]

21. you are conflating two different things

Snowden worship with genuine concern for what's going on with the NSA.

If I find the sycophancy towards Snowden unbearable and see this unhealthy obsession with making Obama look dumb as counter-productive to Liberal goals in general, that does not somehow equate to total support for the NSA or any other government program that might infringe on the civil rights of citizens...Quiet the opposite and I think Snowden is intentionally misleading people about the programs in an act of pious fraud and when that becomes apparent it will damage to movement to check these programs.

And from what I've read, there is no consensus concerning the programs. Some people are calling it disastrous, some are saying that there are a number of safeguards that are being ignored by detractors, I tend to assume the truth is somewhere in the middle. Thus I support and expect reforms but refrain from drinking the Snowden cool-aid and calling America a police state, comparing Obama to the Stasi and other hyperbole that just makes all of us Liberals look dumb.

I can be concerned about the NSA and not trust Snowden at the same time.

and yes, Snowden supporters are demanding that we not question anything he says on threat of being labeled an authoritarian or a corporate sock puppet, on like pretty much every thread that touches on the subject. Choose to see that or not, it's staring us all in the face.