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Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)

151. I suspect even Stalin would have supported the right to privacy except when national security

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:11 PM

Aug 2013

was at stake. What authoritarian order in the history of the world did not justify its intrusions into human rights on the basis of national security?

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face it: Snowden/Greenwald forced Obama's/NSA's hand, and built real power to change things [View all] nashville_brook Aug 2013 OP

Hear, hear! woo me with science Aug 2013 #1

ditto ditto ditto Bigmack Aug 2013 #2

just a moment's reflection :) nashville_brook Aug 2013 #28

All well and good, but... PSPS Aug 2013 #3

building power with people is what democracy looks like. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #92

In before the swarm! n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #4

K&R! Maybe finally our country will put the brakes on the creepy police state shit. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #5

one thing is for sure, nashville_brook Aug 2013 #84

You are right about that. Raksha Aug 2013 #101

always good to take a moment and realize how far you've come :) nashville_brook Aug 2013 #112

I hope things will change tularetom Aug 2013 #6

we're fighting for adherence to a robust legal framework that is policed and fair. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #85

No way, the POTUS teleported back to 2011 Rex Aug 2013 #7

he should have teleported back to 2009 nashville_brook Aug 2013 #114

Who IS that guy? I like him. n/t DirkGently Aug 2013 #132

he's been a stranger around these parts lately. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #134

Snowden didn't do shit, Nashville..... AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #8

the administration can decide for themselves how much this will hurt them nashville_brook Aug 2013 #29

"the administration can decide for themselves how much this will hurt them". I wish that were true.. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #96

From my reading of Snowden's motives, and from those for whom I have respect who've sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #52

"The way to make government responsible is to hold it accountable. The way to make it accountable, nashville_brook Aug 2013 #88

I'm afraid you've been terribly misled, TBH AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #95

That's your opinion. I, unlike you, have been 'looking into these ISSUES pretty extensively sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #104

"I've looked into this man extensively" -- really? nashville_brook Aug 2013 #105

but please tell us how Snowden is a BAH/Trilateral Commission plant secretly working for the Bushes nashville_brook Aug 2013 #123

Democracy looks like stealing stuff? randome Aug 2013 #9

+1000 classof56 Aug 2013 #11

The focus is on Snowden..... raindaddy Aug 2013 #23

He didn't expose anything. He made claims with no evidence to back them up with. randome Aug 2013 #50

You either don't know how to read the slides he released, or you are willfully blind. leveymg Aug 2013 #57

What slides? Like PRISM and 'direct access'? randome Aug 2013 #59

PRISM is a database of databases - a system. The slide reads "collection directly from the servers" leveymg Aug 2013 #62

'Directly from' the secure FTP servers these companies set up for information obtained via warrant. randome Aug 2013 #65

That's your interpretation based upon the defense offered by the corporations. leveymg Aug 2013 #71

The poster has had it explained in detail to him multiple times in multiple posts Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #86

It sure looks that way. Raksha Aug 2013 #102

If he had no evidence like you say, how did he give the Chinese secrets? You cant argue that rhett o rick Aug 2013 #76

Why do you keep asking this question? randome Aug 2013 #103

that you see this as an "our side/their side" struggle, says more about your orientation nashville_brook Aug 2013 #124

Because you continue to make up schtuff. You've been wrong since day one. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #128

spot on. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #131

Right, meetings with lawmakers materlized out of thin air. raindaddy Aug 2013 #77

the fallacy of last resort nashville_brook Aug 2013 #111

I also love the "They were JUST about to fix it all ...!" fallback. DirkGently Aug 2013 #136

...just about to fix it and when along came a perfect opportunity to fix it nashville_brook Aug 2013 #137

You want meaningful changes? Here are some meaningful changes... appal_jack Aug 2013 #153

lol really,. last week it was all a lie and snowden made it all up, according to your posts,. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #25

Snowden's ridiculous claims were not a lie. They were just stupid claims. randome Aug 2013 #42

Turns out there's an app for that -- XKeyscore nashville_brook Aug 2013 #107

The iceberg continues to be revealed. DirkGently Aug 2013 #140

who is stealing whose stuff, really? nashville_brook Aug 2013 #34

What are you on about? The NSA is prohibited from spying on American citizens. randome Aug 2013 #45

You mean like a secret FISA court ruling that PRISM violates the 4th Amendment? DirkGently Aug 2013 #54

You don't get it still. Snowden is gone. He's irrelevant. He chose to hide in Russia. randome Aug 2013 #60

I believe the OP's focus is on the impact of Snowden's leaks. DirkGently Aug 2013 #67

And I understand you want to keep the focus on Obama. randome Aug 2013 #70

the focus is on building power to affect change, nashville_brook Aug 2013 #109

I don't see any mention of PRISM being part of the ruling. randome Aug 2013 #63

More at the link. It's a ruling on 702. Upon which PRISM is based. DirkGently Aug 2013 #66

I don't understand why the Guardian article mentions PRISM. randome Aug 2013 #72

It's not the Guardian connecting the ruling to PRISM. It's the ruling that does that. DirkGently Aug 2013 #74

oh silly me! there's LAWS against spying on americans ERGO nashville_brook Aug 2013 #108

That's what it looked like when Ellsberg did it. He hid too. DirkGently Aug 2013 #58

Ellsberg had solid proof, the Pentagon Papers. Snowden had PowerPoint slides. randome Aug 2013 #61

The NSA's Powerpoint slides, you mean. That the NSA claims don't mean DirkGently Aug 2013 #64

Which means that neither Greenwald nor Snowden knew what they were talking about! randome Aug 2013 #69

But Greenwald and Snowden DID know what they were talking about. DirkGently Aug 2013 #73

As far as leaks go, it was a pointless one. randome Aug 2013 #75

and the fact that Snowden broke the law does not excuse the government from stealing our data nashville_brook Aug 2013 #115

"...what specific changes do you want to see at the NSA?" ronnie624 Aug 2013 #141

Democracy looks like spying on all of your citizens?? sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #106

Spying is not the answer. Stealing and hiding in Russia is not the answer. randome Aug 2013 #110

that thread does nothing of the sort -- it's the same talking point you're putting forth here... nashville_brook Aug 2013 #113

Reminds me of Bushies demanding we solve terrorism DirkGently Aug 2013 #138

Yes! Democracy is empowering the people with information! morningfog Aug 2013 #116

It's not Obama's hand that needed forcing, he only signs/vetoes legislation. JaneyVee Aug 2013 #10

He has all manner of things he can do to advance an agenda just like Bush did. Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #87

are you of the mind that Obama has no power? nashville_brook Aug 2013 #133

DURec leftstreet Aug 2013 #12

yes we must conceed, Snowden is God Californeeway Aug 2013 #13

You are making a number of assertions that are not accurate. Maedhros Aug 2013 #16

you are conflating two different things Californeeway Aug 2013 #21

It is entirely up to Obama how dumb he looks. DirkGently Aug 2013 #33

who said the administration is embarrassed? Californeeway Aug 2013 #78

Obama did. in his speech Friday. burnodo Aug 2013 #100

Obama is doing a fine job of managing his appearance...if he appears "dumb" or "discredited" nashville_brook Aug 2013 #117

and let's talk about "losing faith" and "Liberal policies" nashville_brook Aug 2013 #120

I can call bullshit too Californeeway Aug 2013 #149

Oh stop it. Republicans love the NSA. DirkGently Aug 2013 #139

Great post treestar Aug 2013 #51

There's been a shit-ton of analysis that Snowden haters have ignored burnodo Aug 2013 #19

Unfortunately, my experience has been to the contrary. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #97

"The truth as it is" burnodo Aug 2013 #98

Cool story, bro. =p n/t AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #99

zomg! Snowden is a Bilderberger! I saw him at Bohemian Grove with Jeb Bush!! nashville_brook Aug 2013 #135

it's unfortunate that you feel a need to make this about Obama nashville_brook Aug 2013 #37

And they will talk of blind faith in treestar Aug 2013 #53

he broke the law. he broke the law. rinse and repeat ad nauseum lol nt msongs Aug 2013 #14

Change is still to be seen Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #15

I seem to remember a speech about a month or so EC Aug 2013 #17

Obama is quite capable of not being the bad guy here. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #38

K&R burnodo Aug 2013 #18

Yes - Well Said cantbeserious Aug 2013 #20

I must have missed something TomClash Aug 2013 #22

indeed -- i didn't say that things had changed. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #130

I think I read well enough TomClash Aug 2013 #147

They had already fixed the problem and they were already planning to fix it anyway Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #24

whew! dodged a bullet there! can you imagine how fucked we'd be if this wasn't fixed! nashville_brook Aug 2013 #91

He is a ballerina-abandoner! QC Aug 2013 #26

Agreed. It also did real harm to our intel capabilities Recursion Aug 2013 #27

Like what? DirkGently Aug 2013 #31

Like telling the Chinese which computers of theirs we had compromised Recursion Aug 2013 #32

Hadn't seen that. Evidence? DirkGently Aug 2013 #35

Seriously? Recursion Aug 2013 #36

as if China didn't already know the United States was spying on them. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #39

Right, but he told them which computers in particular we had compromised Recursion Aug 2013 #40

Good for him. Fuck the NSA. n/t Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #145

As if we weren't well aware of the NSA spying Egnever Aug 2013 #55

Are you serious? Those posts don't say what you claim. DirkGently Aug 2013 #41

OFFS. Recursion Aug 2013 #44

Same interview. One, unverified, vague claim. Nothing about damaging intel. DirkGently Aug 2013 #46

Well hell, it's no more vague than the claims he's made about spying on Americans Recursion Aug 2013 #47

There's nothing vague about how DHS and NSA are making a mockery of the law. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #89

I don't give a shit if he gave the Chinese everything Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #148

Our intel capabilities should be reigned in. morningfog Aug 2013 #119

LOL. I'll file that one under, "WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK?" Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #144

word. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #150

+++ This IS what democracy looks like. n/t DirkGently Aug 2013 #30

Snowden has nothing to do with democracy underthematrix Aug 2013 #43

neener neener. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #82

Democracy looks like the People deciding treestar Aug 2013 #48

really? that's where your responsibility ends? nashville_brook Aug 2013 #81

Exactly! That's how we got abolition, women's suffrage, the labor movement and the New Deal, ended Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #94

HERO AppleBottom Aug 2013 #49

he's a hero at a time when we thought heroes no longer existed. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #90

Has there been change? gulliver Aug 2013 #56

read what i wrote. it's about building power. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #80

K&R limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #68

if we've learned nothing else, it's that we're as vulnerable to Dems running those nashville_brook Aug 2013 #79

K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2013 #83

K&R marions ghost Aug 2013 #93

That is if you consider this a "frightening issue". DCBob Aug 2013 #118

history of full of those who were unable to see "frightening issues" nashville_brook Aug 2013 #121

and history is also full of those making moutains out of mole hills. DCBob Aug 2013 #122

then how do you square 4th Amendment protections with domestic spying? nashville_brook Aug 2013 #125

i fully support your right to free speech except for the stuff i don't agree with... nashville_brook Aug 2013 #127

I suspect even Stalin would have supported the right to privacy except when national security Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #151

+1 nashville_brook Aug 2013 #152

One person can change things -- but it may cost him his life. BlueStreak Aug 2013 #126

yup. that's where hero status comes from. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #129

''This is what democracy looks like.'' Octafish Aug 2013 #142

Cryptocracy = tyranny. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #143

knr Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #146