Thom Hartman: The 2nd Amendment was ratified to help preserve slavery.

[Motown_Johnny]

94. Lots of stuff in there

and all of it opinion. If you respond to this message please try to include some facts.


In response to your opinion that guns somehow help minorities, they seem to disagree. Maybe they are aware of the statistics I showed you in my last post.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-03-23/national/37959221_1_guns-and-suicide-gun-deaths-gun-control

^snip^

For instance, African Americans tend to be stronger backers of tough gun controls than whites. A Washington Post-ABC News poll this month found that about three-quarters of blacks support stronger controls, compared with about half of whites. The poll also found that two-thirds of city dwellers support stronger gun controls, while only about a third of rural residents back them.




Next, the constitutional argument is debatable. There was no established personal right to own a firearm until the Shelby v. Holder case and I consider everything this court (led by a W. appointee) does to be suspect. Supreme Court cases have been overturned before. Sometimes it takes decades, and this one is pretty rock solid for the time being, but it is still possible. The very idea that you would reject a "new golden age of safety and security" to defend half of one sentence in the Constitution, while ignoring the other half, is very telling. The second amendment very clearly states that arms are meant for the security of a free state. Not for personal protection. If they wanted people to have guns for personal protection then they would have phrased the amendment that way, they didn't. In fact, an earlier draft had it phrased that arms were meant to defend the country. It seems that personal protection never entered into the discussion.




Next, your statement that the current restrictions on ownership of firearms is supported by the majority of Americans is dead wrong. The majority of Americans want stricter gun control laws. If you had been paying attention a few months ago when this was taken up in Congress, after the Newtown shooting, you would know this. Even if the polling data shows a temporary increase in support for stricter laws in the wake of the shooting there is still no evidence that a majority supports the status quo. At the very least a strong plurality wants stricter laws.


http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm (this doesn't copy well, please see the site)


^snip^


More strict Less strict Kept as they are Unsure/No answer

5/31 - 6/4/13

51% 11% 36% 2%










Now we get to the good stuff. For instance, your use of the word "draconian" when referring to restrictions. Most industrialized countries have much stricter gun control laws than we do. The idea that all of these nations are somehow subjected to cruelty because of these restrictions exposes your true views on this subject. I would argue that the lack of gun control measures in this nation is what is actually cruel.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/15/what-makes-americas-gun-culture-totally-unique-in-the-world-as-demonstrated-in-four-charts/





















Next.. when and how did I imply that people who don't agree with me don't care about the deaths of children or are closet racists? My last post was little more than a copy and paste of statistics showing that owning a gun is dangerous. It was in response to your comment about how minorities should be able to own guns to defend themselves.



As far as amending the Constitution I agree, for the time being. It can't be done...YET! In fact it is very unlikely that it can be done in my lifetime, or for many decades after my death. That doesn't change the fact that there may come a time when it can be done and just because a struggle is multi-generational that does not make it a fool's errand. I would argue the opposite. That fighting against the inevitable is a fool's errand and (In My Opinion) an end to the insanity, which is the gun culture in this country, is inevitable. Some of the popular support necessary already exists and seems to be growing each year.


Lastly, we do agree on something. I agree with your last paragraph in it's entirety and it is really nice to end this post on that note.