General Discussion

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)

17. "B-But Mom, all the kids are doing it!"

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 02:42 PM

Aug 2013

This is like claiming that Obama is innocent in his drone war because he didn't design them. Whether he created these programs or simply seized existing programs and ran with them, the results are the same and the responsibility lies with him. And yes, it is unquestionably true to say that he has expanded these programs and the powers he claims in ways that no President in history has ever publicly stated.

We are talking here about a US President who claims the power to SPY on and KILL any American he wants, with no judicial process, no congressional review, no oversight, just his discretion. Whoever he wants, wherever he wants, for any reasons he deems fit, all in secret. He has also claimed the power to murder the citizens of other countries, with or without the governments of those countries permission. Even Bush never claimed power like this. No President ever has. That's the kind of power reserved to Kings and tyrants.

But it's totally cool with some because he has a D by his name.

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Obama Is Giving Up Some Executive Power, and He�ll Still Get No Credit [View all] Recursion Aug 2013 OP

+1000 Ian David Aug 2013 #1

It is difficult when he has been perceived to have (right or wrongly) adopted hlthe2b Aug 2013 #2

This is like a crack addict wanting cudos for quiting cigarettes Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #3

More right wing bullshit (expansion of executive branch) and we're suppsoed to believe NONE of it uponit7771 Aug 2013 #5

"B-But Mom, all the kids are doing it!" Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #17

What the hell are you talking about? ProSense Aug 2013 #25

Nice straw men there, but I don't care what Rand Paul has to say about anything... Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #29

No, you made fact-free and hyperbolic claim, and dismissing Rand Paul doesn't change that. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #39

that's the poster's MO. Cha Aug 2013 #83

or Obama's workable because he's tryign to walk the programs back some. Again, I'm not going uponit7771 Aug 2013 #56

But he is not walking them back, he is expanding them... Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #65

Link and quote on "expansion" regards uponit7771 Aug 2013 #125

immediately declassify and explain in detail how our entire intelligence gather apparatus works... dionysus Aug 2013 #126

This is such ProSense Aug 2013 #6

It's really an attempt at redefining the adminstration to fit an agenda Egnever Aug 2013 #55

"Bush's illegal actions from secrecy, illegal war, torture, illegal spying OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #60

Hoisted by her Own Petard! bvar22 Aug 2013 #73

An Educational excerpt from Wiki so that everybody can enjoy the visual. bvar22 Aug 2013 #76

"Wow. That sounds serious. " ProSense Aug 2013 #112

According to Eric Holder, those things are "policy differences." OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #124

Indeed. Skidmore Aug 2013 #67

Yes and he increased the chocolate rations too. zeemike Aug 2013 #71

It's an inane post. Igel Aug 2013 #111

+10000000 woo me with science Aug 2013 #16

"What an absurd OP." ProSense Aug 2013 #18

The absurd ProPaganda, incessant denial of the record woo me with science Aug 2013 #38

LOL, love it! Real links to real stories! Thanks! n-t Logical Aug 2013 #41

You posted a wall of "blue links," but ProSense Aug 2013 #42

What an illustrative reply. woo me with science Aug 2013 #62

You posted more personal attacks and didn't answer the question. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #66

Pointing out the modus operandi of authoritarian propaganda is not a personal attack. woo me with science Aug 2013 #75

"You are not special, ProSense. " ProSense Aug 2013 #88

Nyahh nyyahh! OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #90

"Nyahh nyyahh!" You are calling somone a "six-year old"? ProSense Aug 2013 #94

Its the Children's Version of the "To Quoque Logical Fallacy". bvar22 Aug 2013 #114

"You posted a wall of 'blue links' but ignored the question" mindwalker_i Aug 2013 #89

No, ProSense Aug 2013 #96

+1000 zeemike Aug 2013 #74

Question: ProSense Aug 2013 #20

This message was self-deleted by its author woo me with science Aug 2013 #59

Despite the blustering denials from the usual crowd, bvar22 Aug 2013 #21

Well said. nt Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #24

Despite the big type, no he isn't. ProSense Aug 2013 #27

The NDAA alone surpasses any and all of the token gestures you listed. bvar22 Aug 2013 #30

Nonsense. ProSense Aug 2013 #37

We now "legally" outsource all our torture needs (renditions), bvar22 Aug 2013 #69

"Making it legal." The travesty of corporate/authoritarian "morality." woo me with science Aug 2013 #79

What? ProSense Aug 2013 #84

In your frenzied meltdown, you didn't read the links I provided... bvar22 Aug 2013 #117

No, I'm not having a "frenzied meltdown" ProSense Aug 2013 #123

Beautifully put, ProSense. ucrdem Aug 2013 #54

The record speaks for itself, woo me with science Aug 2013 #68

Please allow me to insert this here: bvar22 Aug 2013 #81

+1000 forestpath Aug 2013 #115

+1 leftstreet Aug 2013 #48

I've said it before, no matter what Obama does purist left and FUDr will find something pick uponit7771 Aug 2013 #4

Nance Greggs just posted the ultimate ODS handbook that covers Cha Aug 2013 #86

If Obama found the cure to cancer he wouldn't get credit SummerSnow Aug 2013 #7

Absolutely, ProSense Aug 2013 #8

+1, bashers would say he's putting people out of work uponit7771 Aug 2013 #9

Sad, but true. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2013 #116

Obama has been in office six years Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #10

The speech was from May. The speech was from May. Recursion Aug 2013 #11

The reports, both ProSense Aug 2013 #15

That was um, 3 months ago. Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #22

Signed Patriot Act in May. Signed Patriot Act in May JimDandy Aug 2013 #35

The Bubble of Denial: bvar22 Aug 2013 #72

Obama has been in office four and a half years. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #12

Gee, that makes all the difference. Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #23

A year and a half does. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #44

Not really Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #46

Yes, facts matter. Four and a half years does not equal six years. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #47

But it's more than enough time to stand up for the constitution Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #49

You mean like repealing DADT? ProSense Aug 2013 #53

Actually I'm talking about the Patriot Act and NSA spying Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #61

You are talking about it, ProSense Aug 2013 #100

Obama has renewed the Patriot Act every time it's come up Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #102

"Until he eliminates completely, everything else on the subject of spying is just spin and lies." ProSense Aug 2013 #104

I never said he should abolish the NSA Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #106

Same here Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #36

Only Snowden could hold Obama's feet to the fire! leftstreet Aug 2013 #13

Ok MFrohike Aug 2013 #14

k&r... spanone Aug 2013 #19

Are you kidding? ODS is a disease for a reason. No matter what this Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2013 #26

DU Scurrilous Aug 2013 #28

That isn't voluntary. He is being compelled by the recent house vote. dkf Aug 2013 #31

^^^proof^^^ spanone Aug 2013 #33

Track record dkf Aug 2013 #57

^^^more proof^^^ spanone Aug 2013 #58

He'll get credit for not doing it bigger, better , faster, stronger. bravenak Aug 2013 #32

Blah, blah...and furthermore: blah blah, and blah. wtmusic Aug 2013 #34

I am sick of people acting like Snowden did not escalate the issue! n-t Logical Aug 2013 #40

But that won't necessarily make things better Recursion Aug 2013 #45

I think more outrage exists now that I hope scales it back. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #50

More outrage certainly exists Recursion Aug 2013 #52

Again, credit where credit is due. blackspade Aug 2013 #43

Our ancestors fought and died for this prinicple: JDPriestly Aug 2013 #51

'Obama says' doesn't cut it anymore. His speeches are just speeches. They mean nothing. bowens43 Aug 2013 #63

Ohh, he made a paper concession. Excuse me for being unimpressed. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #64

I re-read the speech and it seems to me like he was speaking of winding down military actions... dkf Aug 2013 #70

He also talked about creating a privacy and civil liberties board Recursion Aug 2013 #77

They've had a privacy board since 2004. dkf Aug 2013 #80

And are those meetings secret too? You know they are. More trust me BS. dkf Aug 2013 #85

Too bad Recursion Aug 2013 #87

Actually Snowden is showing us. You are right that the Govt won't. dkf Aug 2013 #93

Checkmate. bvar22 Aug 2013 #118

it's checkmate after checkmate, but they just won't listen burnodo Aug 2013 #119

Would you like to know WHY? bvar22 Aug 2013 #121

Well lookee here.... dkf Aug 2013 #122

The President addressed surveillance and privacy. ProSense Aug 2013 #78

He had a privacy board and has personally nominated people since 2010. dkf Aug 2013 #82

Not accurate ProSense Aug 2013 #92

Can you post the relevant section please? I don't want to have to guess what your point is. dkf Aug 2013 #95

You don't need "a relevant section" to recognize that the claim ProSense Aug 2013 #98

Hey I posted that they had confirmed a chair!!! I don't need you to tell me. dkf Aug 2013 #101

What? ProSense Aug 2013 #105

ONCE. After Snowden. Sad sad sad. dkf Aug 2013 #107

What are you talking about? The meeting was last year. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #108

Well, I tried wading thru this thread and all I'm seeing is the usual hyperventilation, so, Benton D Struckcheon Aug 2013 #91

Here you go Recursion Aug 2013 #97

Thanks! Just read it. Benton D Struckcheon Aug 2013 #103

But doesn't it seem like he wanted to EXPAND surveillance in lieu of using military ops? dkf Aug 2013 #109

Huh? Where in that speech do you see that? n/t Benton D Struckcheon Aug 2013 #110

I made the argument above, where you got the link. dkf Aug 2013 #113

Never mind. See a few links to it here at the bottom. n/t Benton D Struckcheon Aug 2013 #99

Why? LWolf Aug 2013 #120