General Discussion

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)

133. and some Democrats support progressive taxes

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:46 PM

Aug 2013

and most others, like Obama and most Senators and Representatives (on the Democratic side of the aisle) voted for massive permanent tax cuts for the rich.

But in general, I try to persuade others here to support progressive taxes. I usually fail, but I do not then resort to attacking those who do not see things my way.

Because to do so is hardly a way to make friends and influence people. I want more people on my side, not to anger people who are already against me.

Your OP here to me just seeems to boil down to "nobody on the anti-Snowden side has even two brain cells to rub together. Here's a list of the stupid sh*t that they say."

I just have my doubts as to whether they really say those things, and I don't think mocking them is very productive, even if one side does get a good laugh out of it.

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Below are the arguments of those that support the NSA over Snowden's revelations*. [View all] rhett o rick Aug 2013 OP

About The Pole Dancer otohara Aug 2013 #1

Umm.... "for weeks" kind of makes the point it did occur. nt Pholus Aug 2013 #3

"Did" otohara Aug 2013 #6

Seems to me this is a historical list of arguments. Pholus Aug 2013 #7

then why did they post about it for weeks. the list is not just about current talking points, it's HiPointDem Aug 2013 #8

He dumped her!??! Hissyspit Aug 2013 #10

And she was a ballerina!!!!!11!! nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #32

Is this talking point permanently retired or on the bench? MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #14

I'd Say So otohara Aug 2013 #105

FFS... you don't have your "don't give a shit" timeline in order... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #15

Lol, they cared, until it failed totally as a 'strategy'. sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #49

the Demopublicans like to use Talking Points just like the Republicans... AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #2

Extra bonus points for those who can ID the author of this: bvar22 Aug 2013 #43

Goebbels. n/t ljm2002 Aug 2013 #57

Classic Nazi propaganda technique: the Big Lie. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #67

Close, but no cigar. bvar22 Aug 2013 #71

Darn... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #74

Info on the internetz is like Schrodinger's cat. It's true until you read it. nm rhett o rick Aug 2013 #129

Bernays? n/t Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #93

I guess they fell heir to Bush's old Jackpine Radical Aug 2013 #53

But Obama says there's no spying on Americans leftstreet Aug 2013 #4

good job. but you forgot the latest: by defecting to russia, snowden is supporting russia's HiPointDem Aug 2013 #5

Remember it's just 1.6 % too! Depends on which 1.6% of course... Pholus Aug 2013 #9

good point here - sweet graph too. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #48

now I am totally confused (but what else is new?) hfojvt Aug 2013 #11

Why is it even about Snowden? The "Snowden Haters" made it that way. Pholus Aug 2013 #13

Snowden haters gotta Snowden hate... Pholus... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #16

Aaaargh! You got me! Pholus Aug 2013 #21

It's a self-perpetuating strategy. Maedhros Aug 2013 #87

well, look at it this way hfojvt Aug 2013 #23

One person's shiny object is probably important to another person. Pholus Aug 2013 #31

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^BRAVO! ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ bvar22 Aug 2013 #45

we were not all on the same page in 2006 hfojvt Aug 2013 #65

Some thoughts on your points. Pholus Aug 2013 #83

I NEVER just talk about the President hfojvt Aug 2013 #85

and as to point 4 hfojvt Aug 2013 #89

Act like a Republican, get treated like a Republican. Pholus Aug 2013 #115

All Democrats are not equal. Some Democrats support the Constitution while rhett o rick Aug 2013 #123

and some Democrats support progressive taxes hfojvt Aug 2013 #133

"Promoting our side" is great, as long as "our side" is doing the right things. Maedhros Aug 2013 #91

in spite of that long list though hfojvt Aug 2013 #98

Well, that's where we part ways. Maedhros Aug 2013 #103

uh huh hfojvt Aug 2013 #117

It's Snowden lovers vs. Snowden haters (pick a side bro). limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #54

Here is another example of the authoritarians response to this RetroLounge Aug 2013 #125

the OP is almost 100% snark hfojvt Aug 2013 #126

Willfully ignorant? RetroLounge Aug 2013 #141

AWESOME, all in one handy spot! MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #12

Do you have a response to #5? That's basically my argument (nt) Recursion Aug 2013 #30

Try this thread: MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #34

there is no spying and Snowden has boxes in his garage Doctor_J Aug 2013 #17

One ProSense Aug 2013 #18

Two. Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #26

It's like arguing with a fundamentalist Christian mindwalker_i Aug 2013 #35

"I forgot what the second thing is." ProSense Aug 2013 #50

so Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #68

So you are saying... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #59

Excellent! MuseRider Aug 2013 #19

There's just one problem. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #20

It's worse than saying there is no spying, they DEFEND it because 'it's old news'. Until it's not sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #51

The problem is, Sabrina, I haven't seen too many people defending NSA excesses, either. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #111

There have been some that claim that we need the NSA spy programs to be safe from the terrorists. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #122

+1 Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #128

The OP "likes" Snowden? HangOnKids Aug 2013 #88

The argument used is that collection of metadata isn't spying, Maedhros Aug 2013 #92

Stop With Your Straw Man Crush On Snowden HangOnKids Aug 2013 #100

Talk about strawmen, "I get that you like Snowden." Nowhere did I say that? rhett o rick Aug 2013 #132

Yes, I won't argue against more oversight, not at all. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #139

There appears to be enough evidence to warrant an investigation irregardless of what Snowden's rhett o rick Aug 2013 #140

Well that does it! another_liberal Aug 2013 #22

Excellent! Hilarious! Thank you! JackRiddler Aug 2013 #24

You forgot *my* argument: He ran. n/t UTUSN Aug 2013 #25

In light of Bradley Manning, I'd run too. Harriet Tubman "ran" also riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #42

And there's no spying, which is why the DEA has apparently been concocting fake evidence trails Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #27

Don't forget that Brad Pitt is better than Matt Damon. rug Aug 2013 #28

#5 is roughly my argument. Do you have a response to it? Recursion Aug 2013 #29

I've got a couple, just to be quick. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #56

Snowden's intent was to transit through Russia and take asylum in Maedhros Aug 2013 #94

Was that meant to be to another post? Recursion Aug 2013 #96

In your first post, you referred to "response #5" as your argument, Maedhros Aug 2013 #99

It's a joke argument. The NSA tells you they are not being bad and you buy it. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #120

No, that's a separate question Recursion Aug 2013 #121

You are using a real broad brush there davidpdx Aug 2013 #33

I'm not a Snowden groupie, and I support Obama. And I'm profoundly concerned about the NSA spying Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #37

Did you ever stop and think that Prism is way more discussion worthy than how one feels about.... marble falls Aug 2013 #36

I absolutely agree that we need to keep our eye on the NSA/Booz-Allen spy programs. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #73

I don't think he faced any sort of mysterious death, do you? And sometimes someone has to take.... marble falls Aug 2013 #112

I dont think the court room would have exposed anything. It's all secret. What did rhett o rick Aug 2013 #114

His trial was public and hid nothing and the press exposed and ended the torture. marble falls Aug 2013 #116

What did we learn? nm rhett o rick Aug 2013 #119

gee maybe I should reconsider my opposition to domestic spying........ nah, nevermind bowens43 Aug 2013 #38

Did you get the part where the NSA is 60 years old and that 5 repug and Democratic Administrations.. Tikki Aug 2013 #39

He didn't swear to protect us. truebluegreen Aug 2013 #66

The Constitution of the United States of America... Tikki Aug 2013 #70

"holds justice in high esteem": Fact not in evidence. Maedhros Aug 2013 #97

Pursued and eliminated ben laden... Tikki Aug 2013 #108

Justice would have been to capture Bin Laden Maedhros Aug 2013 #109

The fact that the NSA is "nothing new" doesn't make it right. truebluegreen Aug 2013 #101

I am guessing your point about the age of the NSA is that an agency that old rhett o rick Aug 2013 #124

K&R MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #40

LOL !!! - Perfect !!! - K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2013 #41

Doesn't The Very Term "Secret" Lose much of its meaning when 850,000 people have "top Secret" BlueManFan Aug 2013 #44

Locking... SidDithers Aug 2013 #46

Unlocking... usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #62

Statistics and Information In_The_Wind Aug 2013 #134

Was usGovOwesUs3Trillion a host? Raine1967 Aug 2013 #136

No ... usGovOwesUs3Trillion ... was not a Host. In_The_Wind Aug 2013 #137

Thanks. Raine1967 Aug 2013 #138

du rec. Good round up. nt limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #47

K&R! The propaganda-bots have destroyed their own credibility. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #52

You nailed it, rhett o rick. woo me with science Aug 2013 #55

Thanks for this ProSense Aug 2013 #58

Was the edit a condition of unlocking the thread? hootinholler Aug 2013 #60

No. When this got blown out of proportion I realized that I was in part to blame rhett o rick Aug 2013 #75

Not only does it detract, but it kind of kills the thread. hootinholler Aug 2013 #81

The lock was not editorial... SidDithers Aug 2013 #77

As I said, Without insight into the hosts discussion it appears editorial. hootinholler Aug 2013 #82

Skinner could see no reason to lock the thread, ergo it was unlocked Rex Aug 2013 #130

It doesn't work that way. hootinholler Aug 2013 #131

The admins can and have unlocked threads in the past. Rex Aug 2013 #135

Don't forget about the suspicious boxes in his garage!! reformist2 Aug 2013 #61

Well, I am not sure they dont have something with that one. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #79

Handy talking point round-up.nt raouldukelives Aug 2013 #63

K&R usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #64

i'm going to rec this and Pole Dance while i do it. nt xchrom Aug 2013 #69

lol! quinnox Aug 2013 #78

For the record, I have nothing against pole dancers. Some of my best friends are pole rhett o rick Aug 2013 #80

Thanks. Pls also consider: Civil disobedience is not legitimate unless someone agrees to be arrested AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #72

Add to the list: Sen Franken says it's OK AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #76

Brilliant! Thank you. K&R. n/t truth2power Aug 2013 #84

You should really consider . . . markpkessinger Aug 2013 #86

k&r Puzzledtraveller Aug 2013 #90

excellent list stupidicus Aug 2013 #95

I think a lot of people fall somewhere in between Just Saying Aug 2013 #102

I have no problem that "fall somewhere in between". I do have a problem with those here rhett o rick Aug 2013 #118

Kick And Recommend cantbeserious Aug 2013 #104

You have a pretty low opinion of John Lewis michigandem58 Aug 2013 #106

K&R n/t 1awake Aug 2013 #107

K&R Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #110

cool list n/t SergeyDovlatov Aug 2013 #113

Well done and very funny! Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #127