General Discussion

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)

56. do you think you should keep that for which you are not paying?

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 04:52 PM

Aug 2013

The sale of your mortgage to another party may have been fraud, but you did not participate in fraud because you did not particiapate in that sale, and those who are claiming you are party to that fraud merely by being a signatory to the mortgage which was sold are spouting nonsense. You did not sell your mortgage, fraudulently or otherwise.

Claiming you should not make payments because doing so would be fraud is sophistry. If you are worried about the legitimacy of the sale of the mortgage then you should either make the payments into an escrow account pending resolution of the mortgage sale or quit making the payments and abandon the house. Keeping the house and not making payments is theft.

If you have unclear title than sue the people who clouded your title. That is your recourse and your only recourse.

You are using a lot of glib words that boil down to "I plan to keep the house without paying for it." I don't care how you gild that piece of horse crap, it does not become a lily, it remains horse crap.

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Unsealed court-settlement documents reveal banks stole $trillions' worth of houses [View all] Coyotl Aug 2013 OP

Thank you President Obama! This is exactly why I made hundreds of calls on your behalf ... Scuba Aug 2013 #1

It is so easy to figure out whose fault it is these days. Coyotl Aug 2013 #3

I'm pretty sure the DOJ reports to the President. Scuba Aug 2013 #4

You know something? When people first started getting nervous about truedelphi Aug 2013 #75

I dropped my bagel this morning. Thanks, Obama! n/t Ian David Aug 2013 #27

Your post is disgusting Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #33

Deranged? Really? I'd call it more along the lines of "bitterly disappointed". Scuba Aug 2013 #34

Maybe your problem is he doesn't ram things through illegally Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #37

That's not Elizabeth Warren says. Scuba Aug 2013 #39

Oh BULLSHIT. The problem is the privileged operating entirely OUTSIDE... TheMadMonk Aug 2013 #47

They recognize it. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #94

What? Oh, that's not pot... move along now... n/t nebenaube Aug 2013 #106

Maybe if we had all been united in our outrage, Enthusiast Aug 2013 #111

One other possibility - he was and is aware all the time that all he is truedelphi Aug 2013 #76

After the success of Saint Ronnie Enthusiast Aug 2013 #95

Talk about out of touch with the real world Coyotl Aug 2013 #175

You do know that Democratic voters are only truedelphi Aug 2013 #177

Obama's approval rating with liberal dems is still over 80% Coyotl Aug 2013 #179

80% of 36% is how much of the overall voting truedelphi Aug 2013 #181

Less approval was enough to get re-elected by a landslide. Coyotl Aug 2013 #182

This dude knows EXACTLY how you feel snooper2 Aug 2013 #53

When he came in with this "looking forward" bullshit it was clear that all of the crimes Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #59

Yep - I woke up this morning and the sun was coming up -must be Obama's fault liberal N proud Aug 2013 #151

Nope. But allowing Justice to settle for a small civil penalty is his call. Scuba Aug 2013 #153

Can't fully blame him Xyzse Aug 2013 #178

Kick Squinch Aug 2013 #2

There are no Republicans and Democrats in Washington, they are all Robber Barons. Dustlawyer Aug 2013 #5

Need to get rid of corporate lobbyists too. Nt abelenkpe Aug 2013 #19

Absofreakinlutely! Dustlawyer Aug 2013 #51

When? Seriously? Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #61

I may be tilting at windmills, going for the extreme long shot, I understand that. Dustlawyer Aug 2013 #74

I'm completely on your side and hope every day that I'm proven to be completely wrong. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #90

I don't think 'stole' is the right word - it's just not clear who the rightful owners are anymore. reformist2 Aug 2013 #6

They forged documents to cover the fact that there were none. If YOU did that, where would you be sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #31

Please read my post, not just the title. reformist2 Aug 2013 #35

Amazing how much criminality banks can get away with GiaGiovanni Aug 2013 #88

The government has made it very very clear who's side they are on.. SomethingFishy Aug 2013 #102

And by not going through the proper channels, transfer fees were not paid csziggy Aug 2013 #7

NOT a Bush appointee! ThoughtCriminal Aug 2013 #97

We need to look forward mindwalker_i Aug 2013 #8

Moving forward then.... zeemike Aug 2013 #30

The President makes kitteh smoothies. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #65

That explains why that chicken had whiskers DJ13 Aug 2013 #82

Arrrrggggghhhhh mindwalker_i Aug 2013 #87

This OP misses the point... Whiskeytide Aug 2013 #9

It appears that even if you PAY on time every time...you may not get the title AllyCat Aug 2013 #13

That's true... Whiskeytide Aug 2013 #18

What should be done - anyone involved in MBS not backed by titles should be barred from banking. reformist2 Aug 2013 #38

Whiskeytide, I do not share your view. ms.smiler Aug 2013 #21

I agree with everything you say here... Whiskeytide Aug 2013 #25

Be aware that Countrywide ADMITTED to destroying mortgages. dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #44

I don't for a minute doubt that... Whiskeytide Aug 2013 #136

"the banks stealing from each other because of their sloppy practices." dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #145

You're right... Whiskeytide Aug 2013 #172

Whiskeytide, you are so close to the light, I�ll give it a try and see if I can get you ms.smiler Aug 2013 #164

Countrywide destroyed our retirement account, as well, Blue_In_AK Aug 2013 #161

If you don't mind dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #162

Stocks Blue_In_AK Aug 2013 #166

My company had my retirement funds in ...AIG. dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #167

We converted all our stocks to bonds or something Blue_In_AK Aug 2013 #170

Whiskeytide, you may be mistaken. To the best of my knowledge an alleged ms.smiler Aug 2013 #49

Interesting how DU educates and impacts lives as a consequence. Coyotl Aug 2013 #98

I'll ask you this because you seem to be, unfortunately, steeped in it, Squinch Aug 2013 #113

Squinch, I�ve been researching mortgage/foreclosure/securities fraud on a daily basis ms.smiler Aug 2013 #137

in reality the chances of your mortgage being invalidated rdking647 Aug 2013 #121

rdking647, a Federal court has already ruled that MERS is not a Mortgagee ms.smiler Aug 2013 #130

if you lose you lose your house rdking647 Aug 2013 #139

rdking647, you are assuming I lack the means to pay a valid debt. n/t ms.smiler Aug 2013 #140

but have you been paying it up to now? rdking647 Aug 2013 #143

rdking647, I ceased making my "shakedown" payments as I came to think of them after ms.smiler Aug 2013 #144

most mortgages have an acceleration clause rdking647 Aug 2013 #163

rdking647, I�m well aware of the clauses in my mortgage contract, especially the ones ms.smiler Aug 2013 #165

the court wont agree rdking647 Aug 2013 #171

rdking647, you appear to be unfamiliar with Pennsylvania mortgage contracts. ms.smiler Aug 2013 #173

i really hope your successful rdking647 Aug 2013 #174

rdking647, thank you. Given your expectation, I expect to surprise you. ms.smiler Aug 2013 #176

Good points brush Aug 2013 #32

After a century of doing foreclosures why did the banks Enthusiast Aug 2013 #67

When Glass Stegal act was "erased" dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #159

Thanks, dixiegrrrrl.......nt Enthusiast Aug 2013 #160

The damage to society caused by crime is directly linked to the monies involved. Half-Century Man Aug 2013 #10

But was the homeowner entitled to keep the house? JayhawkSD Aug 2013 #11

See #13 above. Read this thread (currently on greatest page) AllyCat Aug 2013 #14

That is not the way many stories went. Many people were thrown out and had shown loudsue Aug 2013 #15

Then the loan documentation remains irrelevant. JayhawkSD Aug 2013 #58

So because one hypothetical person missed a payment Lordquinton Aug 2013 #72

So, because documentation was not done properly JayhawkSD Aug 2013 #86

Real mature responce there Lordquinton Aug 2013 #107

Because a bank committed fraud and forged documents fasttense Aug 2013 #112

I'm going to try this one more time JayhawkSD Aug 2013 #125

If B buys the mortgage from A, but A does not transfer the mortgage documentation to B, and Squinch Aug 2013 #147

JayhawkSD, I think you need acquaint yourself with lawful conduct and business practices. ms.smiler Aug 2013 #148

Exactly this. MrNJ Aug 2013 #16

Following the laws do not constitute abuse of the system. CubicleGuy Aug 2013 #57

Those people are VERY few in number. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #68

JayhawkSD, once you obtain an understanding of securitized mortgages ms.smiler Aug 2013 #36

do you think you should keep that for which you are not paying? JayhawkSD Aug 2013 #56

JayhawkSD, I�ll do my best to reason with you. ms.smiler Aug 2013 #70

Fine, keep the, stiff the lender, feel good about it. JayhawkSD Aug 2013 #84

JayhawkSD, yes, I feel good about following the law and I feel good about holding accountable those ms.smiler Aug 2013 #89

I am baffled by people who borrow money JayhawkSD Aug 2013 #100

JayhawkSD, again, if there is a party who can prove they own a valid debt they will be paid. ms.smiler Aug 2013 #105

how do you know it will come from damages rdking647 Aug 2013 #119

rdking647, not only do damages exceed the amount of the mortgage, but some damages ms.smiler Aug 2013 #134

Because Rs don't want that. Dark n Stormy Knight Mar 2014 #184

in 200 you refinanced rdking647 Aug 2013 #122

rdking647, I realize that MERS & mortgage securitization broke my chain of Title. ms.smiler Aug 2013 #128

just remember is you lose rdking647 Aug 2013 #138

rdking647, as I stated previously, you are assuming I lack the means to pay a valid debt. ms.smiler Aug 2013 #142

I guess that crossed Ts and dotted Is... CubicleGuy Aug 2013 #55

Don't look now, Jayhawk, but this very well could be happening to you Squinch Aug 2013 #114

Missing the Point Moral Compass Aug 2013 #12

THAT is exactly the point. Even disgraced senator John Edwards spoke about the Two Americas. loudsue Aug 2013 #17

THIS ^^^^^^^^ is the problem marions ghost Aug 2013 #23

+1000 forestpath Aug 2013 #43

Indeed. Rex Aug 2013 #50

Oh Well....Too Big to Fail. bvar22 Aug 2013 #83

The "fraud" was robo-signing, which is a letter-of-the-law technicality bhikkhu Aug 2013 #20

"Fraud" in quotes? marions ghost Aug 2013 #24

Robo-signing is a technical flaw in the signature, which is central to contract law bhikkhu Aug 2013 #28

"Most didn't realize there was any issue with robo-signing..." marions ghost Aug 2013 #41

Here's an article from February on the $25 billion dollar fine bhikkhu Aug 2013 #80

people who lost their homes... druidity33 Aug 2013 #141

marions ghost, robosigning is the repetitive act of forgery. To the best of my knowledge ms.smiler Aug 2013 #169

"Labor saving procedure" Heywood J Aug 2013 #168

Of course they did. Eric Holder did nothing. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #22

Look! Over there! Pot Smoking Grannies! nt HooptieWagon Aug 2013 #26

Would you edit this for me? Coyotl Aug 2013 #42

Exactly! I want my pony. hughee99 Aug 2013 #46

Anyone other than a banker would be in jail for such activities! Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #29

Most excellent summary. And here is what the banks are doing with the homes they stole: dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #40

And where were you Mr President FreakinDJ Aug 2013 #45

I know, reading the other comments is just too much work compared to a hit-and-run shot Coyotl Aug 2013 #48

Hold them responsible for each title the screwed up on. Rex Aug 2013 #52

They stole $100K in equity from me, and I got $2K settlement check Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #54

My settlement check from HSBC was $6K CubicleGuy Aug 2013 #60

It's very likely, I probably would too. Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #66

Wow! avaistheone1 Aug 2013 #62

Thanks for that, it is really shocking. Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #63

I am so sorry that this happened to you. truedelphi Aug 2013 #81

Thanks, truedelphi. Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #135

if you bought a house theres one simple questions to ask rdking647 Aug 2013 #120

The law is the law from both sides, not one side. Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #132

How is your question coming up now? truedelphi Aug 2013 #149

how did they steal 100k in equity from you? rdking647 Aug 2013 #117

The review board found that by law, I should've gotten a modification, but Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #127

Under What Authority Were Banks Able To DallasNE Aug 2013 #64

The banks were able to convert these mortgages into "bonds" truedelphi Aug 2013 #78

That Is Only A Partial Answer DallasNE Aug 2013 #92

I think the repeal of Glass Steagall also Squinch Aug 2013 #115

You are right as far as it being a partial answer. truedelphi Aug 2013 #154

Sen Byron Dorgan was the only person in the Seante to vote against that truedelphi Aug 2013 #155

And they made up the phony story about the Community Reinvestment Act and poor people causing this. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #69

Yes, the people at the very top know exactly what Goebbels was saying truedelphi Aug 2013 #79

This happened to a friend of mine. Qutzupalotl Aug 2013 #71

I posted a related thread, yesterday...from Salon. Your Mortgage Documents Are Fake! if silvershadow Aug 2013 #73

The David Dayen (Salon) article is the one quoted by boingboing pinboy3niner Aug 2013 #77

K 'n R that Coyotl Aug 2013 #93

The lawsuit was actually about banks lying to the government. DirkGently Aug 2013 #85

And no one went to jail? Baitball Blogger Aug 2013 #91

Disgusting blackspade Aug 2013 #96

how did they steal trillions of dollars in homes? rdking647 Aug 2013 #99

The details are here: SomethingFishy Aug 2013 #101

that doesnt mean the banks "stole" them rdking647 Aug 2013 #116

Semantics, shemantics. "tens of millions of mortgages in America ..." Coyotl Aug 2013 #124

Lost Equity 4Q2u2 Aug 2013 #133

Who's going to jail for this? Chisox08 Aug 2013 #103

You know what? Fuck this shit! I damn sick and tired of apologists and blah, blah blah. Lint Head Aug 2013 #104

TARP Inspector General: Obama cared more about "foaming the runway" for banks than help homeowners AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #109

When I heard about this I thought I was gonna pop my cork. How obvious. We are nothing but Lint Head Aug 2013 #123

Yup. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #131

It won't happen - TBF Aug 2013 #118

The person in the Oval Office is merely the truedelphi Aug 2013 #150

I figured this out a long time ago. Banks basically stole houses from people AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #108

Savvy! blkmusclmachine Aug 2013 #110

A comment on the posts in this thread, about all the blame game stuff. Coyotl Aug 2013 #126

Great. So, why doesn't Obama prosecute the Banksters? Octafish Aug 2013 #146

If you have a specific crime, just report it to the proper authority. Coyotl Aug 2013 #152

"Fling poo." Thanks for the kind rejoinder. Let's hear from William K. Black... Octafish Aug 2013 #156

The heart of conservative corruption polynomial Aug 2013 #129

Now, thousands of houses are deteriorating because the banks refuse to foreclose JPZenger Aug 2013 #157

Yet again another failure on the part of the man who truedelphi Aug 2013 #183

Meanwhile, Katie Barnett still wants the few thousand $$ the bank stole from her. lpbk2713 Aug 2013 #158

Fucking bankers gopiscrap Aug 2013 #180