General Discussion

Jasana

(490 posts)

235. You say...

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 04:06 AM

Aug 2013

"It's not a matter of killing him, it's a matter of choosing to (possibly) save someone else's life in preference to (possibly, but less probably) saving his."

But the fact is they are still probably killing him.

As for children, all I can say is I don't have any but I do have a wonderfully kind and good older relative who has gone out of her way to help me with my own disability. If she needed a transplant and was overlooked for a child, I know I would be outraged. Does this make my moral judgment skewed? I honestly don't know. When it comes to family it's so hard to say.

I look forward to the day when "vat grown" organs become widely available so we can stop asking ourselves these terrible questions. Thank you for your thoughts on this issue.

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Dying Teen Is Being Denied A Heart Transplant Because He�s Had Trouble With The Law [View all] Tx4obama Aug 2013 OP

This Country Has Lost Its Fucking Mind... Heart... And Soul... WillyT Aug 2013 #1

. darkangel218 Aug 2013 #33

This message was self-deleted by its author EL34x4 Apr 2015 #243

A strange idea of what makes a person have "value." You must be "compliant," enough Aug 2013 #2

Just so you know, compliance is critical for a sucessfull transplant... WCGreen Aug 2013 #13

dupe Swagman Aug 2013 #16

this is true Swagman Aug 2013 #18

The local news seemed to focus more on his willingness to take his medicine correctly... Phentex Aug 2013 #50

didn't some rich famous person get a transplant a few years ago? ejpoeta Aug 2013 #51

Larry Hagman? Borchkins Aug 2013 #57

Mickey Mantle gollygee Aug 2013 #103

All I know is that the Cleveland Clinic has a blind process... WCGreen Aug 2013 #225

David Crosby, John Phillips, Phil Lesh... magical thyme Aug 2013 #194

Livers can be donated from living donors (lobes); hearts not so much REP Aug 2013 #200

I'm aware of that. that wasn't always the case, however. magical thyme Aug 2013 #205

If they told you that they would take you off the list because you talked back to your boss, or jtuck004 Aug 2013 #21

I have to point out that I have been prepping for the transplant or close to 10 years... WCGreen Aug 2013 #34

Nobody said it was always about race. But I bet it's a lot more than most white people want to admit jtuck004 Aug 2013 #37

How in the world did you miss that this is being discussed as a racial issue... WCGreen Aug 2013 #116

Don't see where I missed anything. But it sounds like you are doing well. Good luck!! n/t jtuck004 Aug 2013 #117

I saw the story and was about to come add something similar. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #55

That post trumps all others in this thread Orrex Aug 2013 #60

Absolutely it is Aerows Aug 2013 #72

With that being said...and you are 100% correct Horse with no Name Aug 2013 #105

If he doesn't take his meds, his transplanted heart will get rejected and he will die. LisaL Aug 2013 #227

the point is...that there is a consistent issue with ALL teens Horse with no Name Aug 2013 #238

My sister is 18 months into a full recovery from a double kidney/liver transplant riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #127

Blessings to you and your family Aerows Aug 2013 #136

I should be listed by late September... WCGreen Aug 2013 #224

A total misunderstanding Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #23

Of course I understand the concept of medical compliance and I understand its importance. enough Aug 2013 #206

More reasonable Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #214

Compliant with the treatment regimen. It's pretty important (nt) Recursion Aug 2013 #46

compliance within medicine refers to whether or not a patient is likely to take their medicine, magical thyme Aug 2013 #191

If you're not medically compliant, an organ goes to waste REP Aug 2013 #199

It's like we all must be good little Germans, never questioning anything indepat Aug 2013 #211

So who get's to weigh which life meets "worthy of saving" status? Disgraceful... n/t 1awake Aug 2013 #3

It's not whether the life is worthy of saving, it's whether it can be saved Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #25

I'm grateful it's not me, but someone has to. There's nothing disgraceful about it at all. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #44

Welcome to the world of organ transplantation Recursion Aug 2013 #47

The doctors doing the transplants. MicaelS Aug 2013 #134

What you have here is a new low in America's health care. No evidence he would take his meds. Jefferson23 Aug 2013 #4

Please read post #13 for the facts. n/t CaliforniaPeggy Aug 2013 #17

I appreciate reading what he posted, thank you. My concern for this young teen and many others Jefferson23 Aug 2013 #222

Teenageers often don't Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #30

And not only little chance of success Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #56

Yes, the question is whether the determination here is correctly made, Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #59

Another article says he failed to take his medication in the past - Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #61

Yes, that's the "history of non-compliance" that matters here Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #64

I have a daughter who will need a transplant someday Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #67

I'm so sorry - how old is she? Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #75

She's 23. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #83

I am sorry, that is a rough one Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #99

Since late middle school Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #110

Thank you to you and Yo Mama. n/t Butterbean Aug 2013 #122

So only in America Politicalboi Aug 2013 #5

Only in America. NCTraveler Aug 2013 #125

Just FYI: In most other countries usually only the very rich get transplanted-it's a corrupt system! hue Aug 2013 #154

Is it Racial? sheshe2 Aug 2013 #6

Sounds like it to me too. MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #7

Or, is it because he has refused to take his meds? joeglow3 Aug 2013 #95

Its not. As a first hand observer of the system, I know its not riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #132

I appreciate your sharing that information, rider. sheshe2 Aug 2013 #142

Death Panel. n/t Motown_Johnny Aug 2013 #8

And yet they gave Darth Cheney a new one n/t n2doc Aug 2013 #9

Darth Cheney has an overlord who will ensure his compliance. MADem Aug 2013 #27

Talk about non-compliance! n/t JimDandy Aug 2013 #28

Sounds like the kid isn't the only one in need of a heart. marble falls Aug 2013 #10

Is he black? n/t jtuck004 Aug 2013 #11

Yup. nt avebury Aug 2013 #12

Perhaps you should read the comments kiva Aug 2013 #148

Perhaps you should actually talk to me before presuming what is in my head. n/t jtuck004 Aug 2013 #175

Fair enough. kiva Aug 2013 #187

Glad you asked, yet you still take the self-righteous tack that it's ok for YOU to make an jtuck004 Aug 2013 #195

Where is the "PRO LIFE" movement? N/t alp227 Aug 2013 #14

Their heads are stuck up some woman's uterus. npk Aug 2013 #157

This is obsene. blackspade Aug 2013 #15

FACT: If he gets the heart, some other young person doesn't get the heart. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #180

Fact: If he doesn't get it he dies. blackspade Aug 2013 #203

You ducked the question. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #207

You know, I'm not sure why you are being so fucking hostile. blackspade Aug 2013 #212

You said it was obscene that he wasn't getting a heart. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #216

You said it was obscene that he wasn't getting a heart. blackspade Aug 2013 #218

The parents, NOT the hospital, said that poor schoolwork was the reason for non-complience. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #220

Well it worked because he is staying on the transplant list. blackspade Aug 2013 #223

This is nothing new, and it's inevitable. mountain grammy Aug 2013 #19

Honestly? Lancero Aug 2013 #20

I have always felt it should be mandatory Egnever Aug 2013 #24

Similar Lancero Aug 2013 #26

Most of the organ recipients I know Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #71

Transplant 2 SamKnause Aug 2013 #32

That would suck Egnever Aug 2013 #35

Thank you - Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #69

How would you feel? Captain Stern Aug 2013 #49

Thank you. n/t Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #70

I wouldn't like it - Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #73

Wow. Fuck over a kid or someone in need because you don't like Cheney joeglow3 Aug 2013 #96

You would have still added a heart to the mix. NCTraveler Aug 2013 #128

Well said, NCTraveler. Aerows Aug 2013 #140

A person will possibly die because of your petulance. Codeine Aug 2013 #139

Even if yours went to Cheney, that means another went to someone else. RedCappedBandit Aug 2013 #219

Not mandatory, but it should be opt-out. Xithras Aug 2013 #186

I totally agree. Opt out, not in. laundry_queen Aug 2013 #197

Sadly these choices must be made Egnever Aug 2013 #22

Transplant SamKnause Aug 2013 #29

Couldnt agree more Egnever Aug 2013 #31

the Death Panel has spoken ...nt quadrature Aug 2013 #36

Sounds very one sided... Sotf Aug 2013 #38

Another article confirms that. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #66

They don't think they can count on him to take his medications Warpy Aug 2013 #39

non-compliant = non-white mwrguy Aug 2013 #40

Based on what? Sotf Aug 2013 #68

In the realm of organ transplants, you are wrong. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #79

This sounds fishy. Aren't juvenile records sealed? How would the hospital know his grades? dkf Aug 2013 #41

It is Aerows Aug 2013 #76

I understand they would be concerned about his ability to follow medical instructions. dkf Aug 2013 #77

It's VERY likely Aerows Aug 2013 #80

But aren't the parents complaining its NOT due to his history of compliance but his grades... dkf Aug 2013 #88

I guess Aerows Aug 2013 #89

I agree that a person who has a poor prognosis because they don't have the habits needed to upkeep dkf Aug 2013 #94

I think you already know Aerows Aug 2013 #97

The parents in the article above Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #126

Another article says the doctors told them it was failure to take meds Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #133

K & R for visibility dreamnightwind Aug 2013 #42

If he gets a heart, some other young person won't get the heart and will die. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #183

I would give him yours dreamnightwind Aug 2013 #188

Because I care more about someone actually surviving than an emotional knee-jerk... GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #201

Ha, just messing with you dreamnightwind Aug 2013 #204

How would you choose who gets hearts? Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #43

That is a primary criteria. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #63

Absolutely it does Aerows Aug 2013 #74

those of you trying to make this racial can fuck off... ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #45

I think so too Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #78

They really should Aerows Aug 2013 #102

Thank you. Codeine Aug 2013 #138

That needed to be said, Thank you! n/t MicaelS Aug 2013 #141

Well the article was from Think Progress npk Aug 2013 #164

Everyone so glibly condemning the hospital should talk to whoever does end up getting the next heart Recursion Aug 2013 #48

Definition: compliant = wealthy; non-compliant = poor AndyA Aug 2013 #52

Oh, BS Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #91

Chill out AndyA Aug 2013 #137

That is very insulting eilen Aug 2013 #240

It's great that you care, and I'm sure your patients are fortunate to have you as a nurse. AndyA Aug 2013 #242

The ignorance....it hurts!!!!! joeglow3 Aug 2013 #98

At the headline I wondered which Pro-Life Republican State? gordianot Aug 2013 #53

bullshit... ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #118

Actually you do not know what I do. Here is hoping the donors get their moneys worth. gordianot Aug 2013 #215

then you didn't do what i suggested ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #217

Transplants SamKnause Aug 2013 #54

This article does not match with another article Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #58

And patients have to take a lot of meds after the transplant. LisaL Aug 2013 #93

Well, on the racists' bright side, they have one less Black kid to worry about nt MrScorpio Aug 2013 #62

this post is fucking bullshit... ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #119

My uncle had a heart transplant Aerows Aug 2013 #65

Thank you for telling the truth Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #81

By design, anti-rejection medication weakens the immune system Aerows Aug 2013 #84

My drivers' license says "organ donor" in prominent green letters MrNJ Aug 2013 #82

Exactly Captain Stern Aug 2013 #90

Yes. Little red heart with a "Y" in it. joeglow3 Aug 2013 #100

We can only get information from the family because of HIPAA. The hospital can't explain things.(m) nessa Aug 2013 #85

What is the life of a young black countingbluecars Aug 2013 #86

Yes Aerows Aug 2013 #106

your attempt to make this racial is disgusting... ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #120

It seems to me that questioning something like this countingbluecars Aug 2013 #143

A 50% chance of his life is worth less than a 75% chance of someone else's (warning: numbers made up Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #145

injecting race into a problem when race was not an issue is disgusting... ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #178

I wasn't screaming or being antagonistic like you. countingbluecars Aug 2013 #179

you're goddamned right I am antogonistic ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #189

If he gets a heart, some other young person won't get the heart and will die. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #184

It's not a question of how much they value his life. It's a question of how much *he* values it. magical thyme Aug 2013 #198

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #87

another person seeing race where race has nothing to do with it... ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #121

Post was alerted: and thats why they are gone. Results beloew.... TeamPooka Aug 2013 #226

And of course the fact that he is black, in GA, has noooothing to do with it. kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #92

No it doesn't. cordelia Aug 2013 #101

That's being naive. kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #149

No, it's not. cordelia Aug 2013 #160

And you are a veterinarian saying this? Aerows Aug 2013 #104

??? I DO understand. I understand that black males are always assumed to be criminals kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #150

I would think Aerows Aug 2013 #153

The hospital follows NATIONAL guidelines for transplants... Phentex Aug 2013 #146

I can pretty much guarantee you that a white male of the same age would never have his school record kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #152

No, but failing to take his medication Aerows Aug 2013 #155

And I can pretty much guarantee you that that didn't happen to this boy either. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #156

No you cannot. Phentex Aug 2013 #161

Well as long as YOU can guarantee us, that pretty much settles it. npk Aug 2013 #169

Holy shit Boudica the Lyoness Aug 2013 #228

Which escaped the notice of a person Aerows Aug 2013 #158

Well, I don't know about that but someone who works at the hospital Phentex Aug 2013 #165

I only know Aerows Aug 2013 #167

my cousin had a heart transplant... Phentex Aug 2013 #170

It's a risky procedure Aerows Aug 2013 #173

What a world! Little Star Aug 2013 #107

I know a family who had to search all over the country for a hospital Jenoch Aug 2013 #108

And you can be pretty certain Aerows Aug 2013 #111

So these "sterile, absolutely clean habits" countingbluecars Aug 2013 #114

Not really Aerows Aug 2013 #115

Why would you even suggest that? Boudica the Lyoness Aug 2013 #229

I was not suggesting any of those things. countingbluecars Aug 2013 #237

I took myself off the organ donor list because... Jasana Aug 2013 #109

"Arizona killing patients who need transplants just because they're on Medicaid" Aerows Aug 2013 #113

Paranoid? Not quite LordGlenconner Aug 2013 #129

That's probably an insult Aerows Aug 2013 #131

Not paranoid. Telling you the truth. See CBS article below... Jasana Aug 2013 #230

shit like what? ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #123

As a parent of a daughter who will need a liver transplant. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #130

I am sorry about your daughter... Jasana Aug 2013 #232

Getting well is not going to happen. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #236

That's both foolish and contemptible. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #147

What's contemptible is Arizona denying transplants to poor people on Medicaid. Jasana Aug 2013 #231

Because there aren't enough chances to go round, that's why. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #233

You say... Jasana Aug 2013 #235

That'll show em... Sotf Aug 2013 #166

That's ironic. RedCappedBandit Aug 2013 #221

Wha? In case you didn't know, Arizona is denying transplants to people on Medicaid... Jasana Aug 2013 #234

Well, unfortunately I think the time is coming liberalhistorian Aug 2013 #239

Boy, vayz und means, eh. ananda Aug 2013 #112

sounds like a death panel to me. nt grasswire Aug 2013 #124

Yes, that's exactly what it is. Do you have a better alternative? Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #144

"Which of these people is more likely to survive" Aerows Aug 2013 #151

I doubt if there's a correlastion in "compliance" between getting good school grades and dying. WinkyDink Aug 2013 #135

You have only heard the parents side of the story. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #185

there is a correlation between adhering to a strict regimen and surviving, or not adhering and magical thyme Aug 2013 #202

My wife was just rejected by the transplant team for a liver transplant egold2604 Aug 2013 #159

I'm deeply sorry to hear this Aerows Aug 2013 #163

Thank you for your perspective... Phentex Aug 2013 #168

I'm terribly sorry Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #172

I don't recall ever seeing a thread on DU onenote Aug 2013 #196

Artificial kidneys & hearts will eventually(beginning 2017 for kidneys)negate the ethical decisions. hue Aug 2013 #162

Some interesting statistics countingbluecars Aug 2013 #171

But don't most of these statistics arise from medical facts? Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #174

Also from the article countingbluecars Aug 2013 #176

Aside from socio-economic factors, which are still significant Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #182

Thank you. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #209

funny how many times the words 'i think' come up in this article... ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #190

Any article that repeats misinformation in its headline Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #208

I agree that the headline may be inaccurate countingbluecars Aug 2013 #210

I've spent far too much time thinking about transplants Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #213

Death panel. n/t Orsino Aug 2013 #177

Educational thread here. BlueCheese Aug 2013 #181

I think we all agree that we wish Phentex Aug 2013 #192

kick Liberal_in_LA Aug 2013 #193

It looks like they put him back on the list. nt eilen Aug 2013 #241

Anthony Stokes has been killed. EL34x4 Apr 2015 #244

I thought of this thread immediately upon hearing of his death Orrex Apr 2015 #245