General Discussion

Catherina

(35,568 posts)

63. Reading some of the military paperwork, I think they had no choice

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 06:23 PM

Aug 2013

because the military was bringing it up via official counseling statements and records.

https://www.rmda.army.mil/foia/FOIA_ReadingRoom/%28a%29%282%29%28D%29%20-%20Records%20released%20to%20the%20public%20under%20t%5CPFC%20Bradley%20E.%20Manning%20Court-Martial%20Trial%20Documents%5CDE%20RRR-Counseling%20to%20Adkins%20from%20Lim_Redacted.pdf

https://www.rmda.army.mil/foia/FOIA_ReadingRoom/%28a%29%282%29%28D%29%20-%20Records%20released%20to%20the%20public%20under%20t%5CPFC%20Bradley%20E.%20Manning%20Court-Martial%20Trial%20Documents%5CDE%20NNN-105008-MFR%20Behavior%20of%20Manning.pdf

There was other stuff there too about how Manning's co-workers, fellow soldiers were uncomfortable around him. I don't think this in any way reinforces the "I shouldn't be trusted because I am gay". On the contrary, it shows how out of touch, backwards, homophobic and transphobic the military is.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

284 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Army Releases Photo of Wikileaker Bradley Manning in Wig and Makeup (Corrected) [View all] Catherina Aug 2013 OP

I support Bradley and his actions. Scuba Aug 2013 #1

That surely ought to cause an enormous backlash and backfire on all involved... hlthe2b Aug 2013 #2

I doubt that judge will but she should Catherina Aug 2013 #8

Who released this? THE DEFENSE entered this into evidence. Did you read your own link? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #43

Why, precisely, should the judge punish the defense? They entered this into evidence. It was msanthrope Aug 2013 #41

Some defense testimony this week centered on this photo, in an attempt to explain Manning's acts struggle4progress Aug 2013 #42

Outrageous that they would do this. elleng Aug 2013 #3

The defense? This is a defense exhibit, released under FOIA. Besides which, what is wrong with the msanthrope Aug 2013 #45

Defense using it for sentencing, elleng Aug 2013 #55

yes--the defense also used these family pictures of Manning in msanthrope Aug 2013 #58

Nothing is wrong with that photo, however they protrayed her as having a mental illness. Neoma Aug 2013 #238

Um--her own defense did. Not the prosecution. It's not a defense I would have used, but I'm not msanthrope Aug 2013 #250

I think you're going to be busy for the rest of the day, replying to these posts. :) tofuandbeer Aug 2013 #108

Hopefully this will most painfully blowback upon the government and give aid to Brianna. n/t Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #4

I hope so too. So far it's backfiring. Catherina Aug 2013 #9

Why would it blow back on the government? It's a DEFENSE exhibit, released under FOIA. msanthrope Aug 2013 #47

Sorry-This doesn't even compare fredamae Aug 2013 #5

how the fuck are those the same ? JI7 Aug 2013 #7

I'm saying there is Way worse fredamae Aug 2013 #15

but how is him dressing up that way bad at all in the first place ? JI7 Aug 2013 #16

It isn't and additionally fredamae Aug 2013 #18

Unless he was sending pictures of his penis to women who were sexting with him.... VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #105

Because they protrayed it as her mental illness. Neoma Aug 2013 #239

not sure i understand eShirl Aug 2013 #10

You sir, have won my remaining supply of what the fucks Scootaloo Aug 2013 #180

To all those who have read my post fredamae Aug 2013 #189

to me it makes him more sympathetic JI7 Aug 2013 #6

Me too. nt bunnies Aug 2013 #12

yes AtomicKitten Aug 2013 #57

Bigots... haikugal Aug 2013 #11

The DEFENSE are bigots? This post and threads shows what this country is up against when it comes kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #233

Let me be clear... haikugal Aug 2013 #235

The point is that the Army protrayed it as evidence of her mental illness. Neoma Aug 2013 #240

No--this was a defense exhibit, introduced by the defense in mitigation. This was not msanthrope Aug 2013 #246

Catherina may not know that. Neoma Aug 2013 #247

Since Catherina's own links tell us that--and I mean, it took me all of 5 seconds to discern it, msanthrope Aug 2013 #249

Catherina's motives? Neoma Aug 2013 #253

I have no idea what you are talking about. Can you enlighten me as to some of what you've msanthrope Aug 2013 #255

She's asked for help. Neoma Aug 2013 #256

Link? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #258

Sigh. Neoma Aug 2013 #259

Neoma, I respect you. So it is with respect that I suggest that you take a step back msanthrope Aug 2013 #261

I agree to butt out. Neoma Aug 2013 #264

I think it's wise for you to take your stated course. And I am not PMing Catherina. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #265

Catherina's original post, before the edits... SidDithers Aug 2013 #257

I am not surprised Harmony Blue Aug 2013 #13

disgusting. cali Aug 2013 #14

This is a defense exhibit. And what is disgusting about that photo? msanthrope Aug 2013 #50

Me too. I think he looks great. Whisp Aug 2013 #99

Apparently release of this photo is a smear of Manning to some. My pointing out that the release msanthrope Aug 2013 #203

Because they are submitting that picture as evidence of her mental illness. Neoma Aug 2013 #241

Indeed--Manning's own defense thought to do so. Are you second-guessing the defense? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #248

See my update. This was released as part of the record Catherina Aug 2013 #97

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #170

Any locker-room lawyers who can tell us if the military is immune to HIPAA requirements? HereSince1628 Aug 2013 #17

The published the entire heartbreaking email Catherina Aug 2013 #22

I'm more concerned about how trans-related violence is alive and well in prison. HereSince1628 Aug 2013 #33

The defense entered it into evidnece Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #37

You're CORRECT. Thank you Catherina Aug 2013 #54

Going to edit your OP now? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #62

Apparently not, in a manner that clarifies the pic came from the defense Sheepshank Aug 2013 #112

Of COURSE it did, the same way his having to wear the MADem Aug 2013 #124

Um--this was a defense exhibit, and I find your complaints about this puzzling. msanthrope Aug 2013 #38

I don't think OP can see you, msanthrope. Number23 Aug 2013 #121

Another iggy list? I actually like being on people's iggy lists--it means I get to reply to them msanthrope Aug 2013 #140

You just made me choke on a piece of apple I was chewing- snooper2 Aug 2013 #196

My general DU rule is to clear my mouth while reading. Safety first! nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #197

This thread definitely shows the danger of living in a sound-proof, self-congratulatory echo chamber Number23 Aug 2013 #223

I think any user function that allows a DUer to have a thread like this by dint msanthrope Aug 2013 #226

Absolutely. Phrases like "hoisted with their own petard" were made for situations like this Number23 Aug 2013 #229

Well, the reason the Hannah Bell troll (HiPointDem) was able to exist as long as 'she' msanthrope Aug 2013 #231

That's why I think the admins need to put a stop to that crap. Number23 Aug 2013 #232

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #173

This accusation about OP is pure disgraceful and sick bullshit and you know it but did it anyway. idwiyo Aug 2013 #181

It all depends on how this was brought up Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #30

I am having those same misgivings dbackjon Aug 2013 #36

I think his defense team is doing no favors for the military LBGT community Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #40

The defense doesn't really have much choice. It's not a defense I would have used, but msanthrope Aug 2013 #153

Reading some of the military paperwork, I think they had no choice Catherina Aug 2013 #63

That is what I would think they were doing, exposing the ignorant bigotry that shamefully has been sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #220

I haven't read them yet but by all accounts his attorney is doing a marvelous job Catherina Aug 2013 #221

It's a damned good defense, and it has nothing to do with MADem Aug 2013 #126

If they really stress that, yes Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #183

Yes, they have. Elsewhere in this thread (look for the Westie) I have posted a link MADem Aug 2013 #184

THis was a defense exhibit, released under FOIA--so complaining about its release is about as msanthrope Aug 2013 #32

I should think his DEFENSE attorneys got his permission before they used that exhibit. nt MADem Aug 2013 #123

That's a good point. Neoma Aug 2013 #242

Hey, their credibility is at stake. bemildred Aug 2013 #19

Nothing wrong with being born the wrong gender Bradley Hydra Aug 2013 #20

Absolutely! n/t Catherina Aug 2013 #23

This is a really, really bad precedent Mosby Aug 2013 #21

He could have told his defense attorneys to "stow" that angle of defense. MADem Aug 2013 #129

Manning emailed the photo to his former supervisor, with a discussion of his gender identity issues struggle4progress Aug 2013 #132

thanks for the additional info Mosby Aug 2013 #213

Well see, they're just really really against leaking things. Marr Aug 2013 #24

This message was self-deleted by its author RKP5637 Aug 2013 #25

The army didn't release it. It was a defense exhibit. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #187

Thanks! I've read the postings and now see what happened as you just RKP5637 Aug 2013 #200

This message was self-deleted by its author PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #26

Nice to know his therapist can be trusted with personal information arcane1 Aug 2013 #27

Um--his defense attorney entered this into evidence. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #66

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #147

It's a rather interesting manifestation, is it not? Apparently, there's something in Manning's msanthrope Aug 2013 #150

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #159

From what I gather from the OP's subsequent posts, she appears to be completely unaware that she has msanthrope Aug 2013 #165

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #168

You know, years ago, it was considered defamation per se to say that someone was gay. Why? Because msanthrope Aug 2013 #177

You are an attorney? Then you should know that 'years ago' is today. In the vast majority of Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #237

You hate OP so much that you decided to smear her as a homophobe? Sick and disgraceful post. idwiyo Aug 2013 #182

See my #190. Why would the OP think this might make people hate him? What is the thinking process stevenleser Aug 2013 #193

The reality of wide-spread homophobia in the US, in and outside of the military? redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #194

That is simply not the reality anymore. Polling on Same sex marriage is now consistently favorable stevenleser Aug 2013 #195

We are talking about treatment of transgender here, not same sex marriadge. Try to stay on topic idwiyo Aug 2013 #212

LMAO, stay on topic? You're still trying to defend the OP by attacking other people! ROFLMAO stevenleser Aug 2013 #214

Good to know you can't defend your disgusting insinuations. Keep posting emotiocons, it idwiyo Aug 2013 #216

LOL! The OP whose contentions you cannot defend except by attacking other people? stevenleser Aug 2013 #218

^ Your emoticons pretty much sum up how I view your TV appearances whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #225

Someone lost their alerting privileges for a day. Jury results went 0-6 to leave this alone. Electric Monk Aug 2013 #230

Another BS post and you know it. Transphobia is live and well in US and everywhere else in the world idwiyo Aug 2013 #201

You're defending an OP that contains wrong information and perpetuates negative stereotypes by stevenleser Aug 2013 #205

Your desire to smear OP as a bigot is disgusting, and you know it but keep repeating the same idwiyo Aug 2013 #209

LOL, and you're still trying to do it!!!!!! stevenleser Aug 2013 #210

I think the point is more of the fact that they released it as evidence of her mental instability. Neoma Aug 2013 #245

Well, it was released by the defense, i.e. Manning and her team. So if we are going to be outraged stevenleser Aug 2013 #251

Wait a minute--first Bradley Manning is being smeared by a picture, and now the OP msanthrope Aug 2013 #202

Survey says... stevenleser Aug 2013 #211

You just can't stop digging. Shameful. idwiyo Aug 2013 #215

Why are you answering for the OP? Look, if Catherina feels there is something wrong with msanthrope Aug 2013 #217

Be careful dbackjon Aug 2013 #219

They'd have to take me off ignore, first. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #224

His therapist testified in open court. He talked about his gender identity issue, MADem Aug 2013 #136

Ah, I had no idea! Thanks to you and msanthrope! arcane1 Aug 2013 #137

No problem--the original gist of the OP is that the defendant was being maligned, so it's MADem Aug 2013 #138

I'd blame the lack of facts in the OP for your nausea. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #142

I don't understand ProSense Aug 2013 #28

Thank you--I just pointed out that the OP is complaining about a DEFENSE EXHIBIT. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #31

If you dont understand ask the OP what her intent was. It was clear to me and it rhett o rick Aug 2013 #267

I find your OP disengenous--This is a defense exhibit, and released under a FOIA request..... msanthrope Aug 2013 #29

+1 n/t tammywammy Aug 2013 #34

Damn! Is somebody lying? Lying is bad. Nobody should lie. nt bemildred Aug 2013 #39

I would never assume maliciousness when plain ignorance seems to be available as a defense. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #61

Assume, no, but infer, perhaps, and by no means just rule it out. bemildred Aug 2013 #102

Nailed it...nt SidDithers Aug 2013 #44

A rock solid guarantee that he did NOT nail it. lol nt Bonobo Aug 2013 #243

Well, the OP has been edited 3 times. lol...nt SidDithers Aug 2013 #244

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #252

I am a she, as my username clearly indicates. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #262

So really it is Gawker who is tossing the image around the net? Not the Army? PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #52

Yes. It's a post-trial exhibit entered by the Defense. msanthrope Aug 2013 #53

Thank you. n/t Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #56

We try. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #59

It's nearly impossible at this point Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #70

Well, this thread is a testament to how basic logic escapes some. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #75

Even though all four countries apologized. former9thward Aug 2013 #88

LOL Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #90

Why did the countries apologize? former9thward Aug 2013 #92

They forced down his plane by hacking his fuel gauge Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #94

You know why? Because sometimes you apologize when you've done nothing wrong because the other msanthrope Aug 2013 #141

I'm sorry snooper2 Aug 2013 #198

This is the truth, and the OP should change it. LaydeeBug Aug 2013 #133

once again here you are rocking the facts Egnever Aug 2013 #144

You are quite welcome. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #145

+++ Whisp Aug 2013 #254

bastards n/t warrprayer Aug 2013 #35

Who??? The DEFENSE, who put this into evidence? Or the people who filed the FOIA that released it? msanthrope Aug 2013 #51

A lot of transgender women go to the military before ultimately accepting themselves AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #46

Guess he's in good company of 9/11 figurehead ex-Mayor Giuliani & Disney icon Julie Andrews tomm2thumbs Aug 2013 #48

Love this reply Matariki Aug 2013 #49

This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Aug 2013 #60

You mean his defense attorney? Because had you read the thread, you would have realized this msanthrope Aug 2013 #64

They released it as part of the official trial records. I still don't get Catherina Aug 2013 #65

You are the one plastering it Catherina. Another hoax. Will your clique call you on it? KittyWampus Aug 2013 #72

Just thought I'd keep this for posterity.... msanthrope Aug 2013 #80

Blame it on whoever made the FOIA request that released it...you know...the press, msanthrope Aug 2013 #73

So you're in favor of secret tribunals? Crabby Appleton Aug 2013 #115

Apparently that would be Manning's defense team, whoever filed the FOIA and gawker.com Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2013 #67

Isn't there some patient-doctor confidentiality? Renew Deal Aug 2013 #68

Sure--until your lawyer enters the email and picture into evidence in a court of law, and msanthrope Aug 2013 #76

I think he looks nice like that. bravenak Aug 2013 #69

I applaud your humble integrity. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2013 #71

Wow. This dude is a hero in my book. He gave his life for freedom. nt limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #74

I think so too. Manning's Goals Catherina Aug 2013 #77

As a straight woman, I'd think the nudity forced lexington filly Aug 2013 #78

+1000 n/t Catherina Aug 2013 #82

wow, that is a very sad observation G_j Aug 2013 #113

Smart... Sotf Aug 2013 #171

Would you prefer a dead soldier? MADem Aug 2013 #185

Deplorable, unprofessional, sleazy, intentionally cruel, not unlike his solitary confinement 99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #79

Um--his defense attorney entered this into evidence. It was released under FOIA msanthrope Aug 2013 #83

I updated/corrected the OP. These were released as part of the trial records Catherina Aug 2013 #87

You're angry at Gawker? ProSense Aug 2013 #91

still avoiding a full disclosure that the release was at the hands of the DEFENSE Sheepshank Aug 2013 #118

Why then did you post the picture of Manning ? lumpy Aug 2013 #130

Manning's "traitorous act" included revealing child sex-slavery burnodo Aug 2013 #81

He exposed that and many war crimes. That's honorable. Covering them up is NOT n/t Catherina Aug 2013 #84

I think the real question is.... burnodo Aug 2013 #86

And if that's all he'd done, he wouldn't have been on trial. But as his apology demonstrated msanthrope Aug 2013 #85

Right. burnodo Aug 2013 #89

Well, it would have been craploads easier for him had he just gone for whistleblower status under msanthrope Aug 2013 #93

Pick and choose is what Manning should have done Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #95

Yes burnodo Aug 2013 #103

Do you not understand Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #106

The government is accountable to the people burnodo Aug 2013 #110

I was anticipating Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #114

And those who freed the slaves knew they were breaking the law burnodo Aug 2013 #116

Yes, of course Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #119

I am burnodo Aug 2013 #120

Congratulations! Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #139

OMG Egnever Aug 2013 #149

Thank you, Egnever ... Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #151

Be all you can be ...in the army. Assholes first class! L0oniX Aug 2013 #96

Reading the other stuff on the FOIA link Catherina Aug 2013 #98

I'm sure his defense would not want to bring that out as it would show cause for revenge. n/t L0oniX Aug 2013 #100

You should've not posted it. tblue Aug 2013 #101

Whats wrong with the photo? Should Manning be ashamed of being transgender? AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #104

I debated... Then I saw it was all over the internet already and on LGBT websites Catherina Aug 2013 #107

lolol. it is public record. I'm glad you went back and corrected the OP Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #111

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #117

You don't feel chastised after posting such an intemperate OP that it had to be edited msanthrope Aug 2013 #148

s/he looks nice Skittles Aug 2013 #109

Why is this "appalling?" Surely you don't think there's anything "wrong" with being transgender? MADem Aug 2013 #122

But why did the army release it? BainsBane Aug 2013 #125

FOIA....the Freedom of Information Act. MADem Aug 2013 #127

Do you know that's how it actually came to be released? BainsBane Aug 2013 #128

Here's a list of all documents FOIA released tammywammy Aug 2013 #131

Thank you BainsBane Aug 2013 #162

It was actually a defense exhibit and was released under FOIA Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #134

In this case, this evidence--and a lot more--was presented in open court. MADem Aug 2013 #135

Thanks for the info BainsBane Aug 2013 #160

It was released pursuant to the scores of FOIA requests that the press, and Manning's supporters msanthrope Aug 2013 #143

Thanks BainsBane Aug 2013 #161

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #146

Hear hear and kudos to msanthrope and others who righted this wrong. great white snark Aug 2013 #154

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #163

Gotta agree Egnever Aug 2013 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #157

I only hope that Michelle Catalano Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #152

I'm gonna google 'quinoa' and 'Bradley Manning' and 'Wikileaks' and see who shows up msanthrope Aug 2013 #156

You've got to give this OP credit for one thing Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #158

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #164

Well, quite sadly (IMHO) Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #167

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #169

The OP won't delete Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #175

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #176

It's not bad. Puglover Aug 2013 #188

Should I post a list of Catherina's bogus threads? There is now an entire catalog. I'd post a map KittyWampus Aug 2013 #192

Yeah "little clique" Puglover Aug 2013 #199

"Should I post a list of Catherina's bogus threads?" Putting all that in one place might just Number23 Aug 2013 #222

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #166

The Jury did a good job. RudynJack Aug 2013 #172

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #174

Can you explain RudynJack Aug 2013 #178

It means it had already been alerted / judged on before joshcryer did Scootaloo Aug 2013 #179

du rec. xchrom Aug 2013 #186

Really? Do you understand what you are reccing here? See my #190. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #191

There were more recs last night. I've noticed a few quiet drop-offs. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #204

By now I hope you realize the multiple problems with your OP stevenleser Aug 2013 #190

That's a lot of outrage but I cant understand where it's directed. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #266

Only in your own mind, stevenleser! Th1onein Aug 2013 #281

Dehumanization get the red out Aug 2013 #206

His defense is out to harm him? tammywammy Aug 2013 #207

You would benefit from reading the facts contained within the thread. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #208

You do realize that for many people here Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #227

Armed forces comply with FOIA, haters soil themselves with fauxtrage geek tragedy Aug 2013 #228

Would you mind explaining who you are calling haters? The OP is supportive of Manning. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #268

The typical "US government/Obama administration is evil" types. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #269

And how does that tie into this discussion? Or are you equating support of Manning rhett o rick Aug 2013 #270

The original version of this OP condemned the army for releasing this picture, claiming geek tragedy Aug 2013 #271

And that justifies disparaging the OP? Are you against all "unwarranted outrage" or rhett o rick Aug 2013 #273

It's the old ready, fire, aim approach where they assume the worst. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #275

The OP was mis-characterized as a " fucking LGBT-phobe" and then disparaged for it. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #277

Did I make that comment? nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #279

No. But the point is that you would disparage the OP and let the one that did make that rhett o rick Aug 2013 #280

That doesnt fit. Looks like you are calling those supporting Manning as haters. Ironic. nm rhett o rick Aug 2013 #274

I support Bradley Manning. PERIOD. Th1onein Aug 2013 #234

He looks better than that stupid ass Petraus's girlfriend Generic Other Aug 2013 #236

I am mistaken Generic Other Aug 2013 #263

funny noiretextatique Aug 2013 #260

It appears to me that the point of disesent is that the Skidmore Aug 2013 #272

Sounds like a rationalization for ganging up on the OP. Her mistake didnt change her outrage for rhett o rick Aug 2013 #276

Noiretextatique! My sis and personal friend! Catherina Aug 2013 #278

i can't wait to get out of here noiretextatique Aug 2013 #282

We're waiting for you Catherina Aug 2013 #284

Sucks to have sensitive, private information stolen and released. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #283