General Discussion

MADem

(135,425 posts)

122. Why is this "appalling?" Surely you don't think there's anything "wrong" with being transgender?

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 08:29 PM

Aug 2013

The defense offered the photo up, along with Manning's own narrative about what he termed his "problem," as a factor in MITIGATION.

The idea is to show his state of mind at the time of the offense, as well as to suggest that the military screening was less than optimal in sending such a conflicted individual to a war zone, in hopes of REDUCING his sentence.

The only one "assuming" any mocking or deriding is you, perhaps because you aren't understanding the source of the documents.

Manning is what he is; no need for him to be embarrassed. Hopefully he'll get a not-onerous stretch, and be able to pick up and move on, come to firm decisions about his gender identity conflicts, and move forward from that point. The fact that he stood up and took responsibility, and didn't play games, is commendable. I hope he catches a break. I'd be fine with five to ten, reduced to include time served, and early probation for good behavior.

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Army Releases Photo of Wikileaker Bradley Manning in Wig and Makeup (Corrected) [View all] Catherina Aug 2013 OP

I support Bradley and his actions. Scuba Aug 2013 #1

That surely ought to cause an enormous backlash and backfire on all involved... hlthe2b Aug 2013 #2

I doubt that judge will but she should Catherina Aug 2013 #8

Who released this? THE DEFENSE entered this into evidence. Did you read your own link? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #43

Why, precisely, should the judge punish the defense? They entered this into evidence. It was msanthrope Aug 2013 #41

Some defense testimony this week centered on this photo, in an attempt to explain Manning's acts struggle4progress Aug 2013 #42

Outrageous that they would do this. elleng Aug 2013 #3

The defense? This is a defense exhibit, released under FOIA. Besides which, what is wrong with the msanthrope Aug 2013 #45

Defense using it for sentencing, elleng Aug 2013 #55

yes--the defense also used these family pictures of Manning in msanthrope Aug 2013 #58

Nothing is wrong with that photo, however they protrayed her as having a mental illness. Neoma Aug 2013 #238

Um--her own defense did. Not the prosecution. It's not a defense I would have used, but I'm not msanthrope Aug 2013 #250

I think you're going to be busy for the rest of the day, replying to these posts. :) tofuandbeer Aug 2013 #108

Hopefully this will most painfully blowback upon the government and give aid to Brianna. n/t Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #4

I hope so too. So far it's backfiring. Catherina Aug 2013 #9

Why would it blow back on the government? It's a DEFENSE exhibit, released under FOIA. msanthrope Aug 2013 #47

Sorry-This doesn't even compare fredamae Aug 2013 #5

how the fuck are those the same ? JI7 Aug 2013 #7

I'm saying there is Way worse fredamae Aug 2013 #15

but how is him dressing up that way bad at all in the first place ? JI7 Aug 2013 #16

It isn't and additionally fredamae Aug 2013 #18

Unless he was sending pictures of his penis to women who were sexting with him.... VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #105

Because they protrayed it as her mental illness. Neoma Aug 2013 #239

not sure i understand eShirl Aug 2013 #10

You sir, have won my remaining supply of what the fucks Scootaloo Aug 2013 #180

To all those who have read my post fredamae Aug 2013 #189

to me it makes him more sympathetic JI7 Aug 2013 #6

Me too. nt bunnies Aug 2013 #12

yes AtomicKitten Aug 2013 #57

Bigots... haikugal Aug 2013 #11

The DEFENSE are bigots? This post and threads shows what this country is up against when it comes kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #233

Let me be clear... haikugal Aug 2013 #235

The point is that the Army protrayed it as evidence of her mental illness. Neoma Aug 2013 #240

No--this was a defense exhibit, introduced by the defense in mitigation. This was not msanthrope Aug 2013 #246

Catherina may not know that. Neoma Aug 2013 #247

Since Catherina's own links tell us that--and I mean, it took me all of 5 seconds to discern it, msanthrope Aug 2013 #249

Catherina's motives? Neoma Aug 2013 #253

I have no idea what you are talking about. Can you enlighten me as to some of what you've msanthrope Aug 2013 #255

She's asked for help. Neoma Aug 2013 #256

Link? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #258

Sigh. Neoma Aug 2013 #259

Neoma, I respect you. So it is with respect that I suggest that you take a step back msanthrope Aug 2013 #261

I agree to butt out. Neoma Aug 2013 #264

I think it's wise for you to take your stated course. And I am not PMing Catherina. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #265

Catherina's original post, before the edits... SidDithers Aug 2013 #257

I am not surprised Harmony Blue Aug 2013 #13

disgusting. cali Aug 2013 #14

This is a defense exhibit. And what is disgusting about that photo? msanthrope Aug 2013 #50

Me too. I think he looks great. Whisp Aug 2013 #99

Apparently release of this photo is a smear of Manning to some. My pointing out that the release msanthrope Aug 2013 #203

Because they are submitting that picture as evidence of her mental illness. Neoma Aug 2013 #241

Indeed--Manning's own defense thought to do so. Are you second-guessing the defense? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #248

See my update. This was released as part of the record Catherina Aug 2013 #97

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #170

Any locker-room lawyers who can tell us if the military is immune to HIPAA requirements? HereSince1628 Aug 2013 #17

The published the entire heartbreaking email Catherina Aug 2013 #22

I'm more concerned about how trans-related violence is alive and well in prison. HereSince1628 Aug 2013 #33

The defense entered it into evidnece Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #37

You're CORRECT. Thank you Catherina Aug 2013 #54

Going to edit your OP now? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #62

Apparently not, in a manner that clarifies the pic came from the defense Sheepshank Aug 2013 #112

Of COURSE it did, the same way his having to wear the MADem Aug 2013 #124

Um--this was a defense exhibit, and I find your complaints about this puzzling. msanthrope Aug 2013 #38

I don't think OP can see you, msanthrope. Number23 Aug 2013 #121

Another iggy list? I actually like being on people's iggy lists--it means I get to reply to them msanthrope Aug 2013 #140

You just made me choke on a piece of apple I was chewing- snooper2 Aug 2013 #196

My general DU rule is to clear my mouth while reading. Safety first! nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #197

This thread definitely shows the danger of living in a sound-proof, self-congratulatory echo chamber Number23 Aug 2013 #223

I think any user function that allows a DUer to have a thread like this by dint msanthrope Aug 2013 #226

Absolutely. Phrases like "hoisted with their own petard" were made for situations like this Number23 Aug 2013 #229

Well, the reason the Hannah Bell troll (HiPointDem) was able to exist as long as 'she' msanthrope Aug 2013 #231

That's why I think the admins need to put a stop to that crap. Number23 Aug 2013 #232

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #173

This accusation about OP is pure disgraceful and sick bullshit and you know it but did it anyway. idwiyo Aug 2013 #181

It all depends on how this was brought up Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #30

I am having those same misgivings dbackjon Aug 2013 #36

I think his defense team is doing no favors for the military LBGT community Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #40

The defense doesn't really have much choice. It's not a defense I would have used, but msanthrope Aug 2013 #153

Reading some of the military paperwork, I think they had no choice Catherina Aug 2013 #63

That is what I would think they were doing, exposing the ignorant bigotry that shamefully has been sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #220

I haven't read them yet but by all accounts his attorney is doing a marvelous job Catherina Aug 2013 #221

It's a damned good defense, and it has nothing to do with MADem Aug 2013 #126

If they really stress that, yes Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #183

Yes, they have. Elsewhere in this thread (look for the Westie) I have posted a link MADem Aug 2013 #184

THis was a defense exhibit, released under FOIA--so complaining about its release is about as msanthrope Aug 2013 #32

I should think his DEFENSE attorneys got his permission before they used that exhibit. nt MADem Aug 2013 #123

That's a good point. Neoma Aug 2013 #242

Hey, their credibility is at stake. bemildred Aug 2013 #19

Nothing wrong with being born the wrong gender Bradley Hydra Aug 2013 #20

Absolutely! n/t Catherina Aug 2013 #23

This is a really, really bad precedent Mosby Aug 2013 #21

He could have told his defense attorneys to "stow" that angle of defense. MADem Aug 2013 #129

Manning emailed the photo to his former supervisor, with a discussion of his gender identity issues struggle4progress Aug 2013 #132

thanks for the additional info Mosby Aug 2013 #213

Well see, they're just really really against leaking things. Marr Aug 2013 #24

This message was self-deleted by its author RKP5637 Aug 2013 #25

The army didn't release it. It was a defense exhibit. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #187

Thanks! I've read the postings and now see what happened as you just RKP5637 Aug 2013 #200

This message was self-deleted by its author PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #26

Nice to know his therapist can be trusted with personal information arcane1 Aug 2013 #27

Um--his defense attorney entered this into evidence. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #66

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #147

It's a rather interesting manifestation, is it not? Apparently, there's something in Manning's msanthrope Aug 2013 #150

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #159

From what I gather from the OP's subsequent posts, she appears to be completely unaware that she has msanthrope Aug 2013 #165

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #168

You know, years ago, it was considered defamation per se to say that someone was gay. Why? Because msanthrope Aug 2013 #177

You are an attorney? Then you should know that 'years ago' is today. In the vast majority of Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #237

You hate OP so much that you decided to smear her as a homophobe? Sick and disgraceful post. idwiyo Aug 2013 #182

See my #190. Why would the OP think this might make people hate him? What is the thinking process stevenleser Aug 2013 #193

The reality of wide-spread homophobia in the US, in and outside of the military? redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #194

That is simply not the reality anymore. Polling on Same sex marriage is now consistently favorable stevenleser Aug 2013 #195

We are talking about treatment of transgender here, not same sex marriadge. Try to stay on topic idwiyo Aug 2013 #212

LMAO, stay on topic? You're still trying to defend the OP by attacking other people! ROFLMAO stevenleser Aug 2013 #214

Good to know you can't defend your disgusting insinuations. Keep posting emotiocons, it idwiyo Aug 2013 #216

LOL! The OP whose contentions you cannot defend except by attacking other people? stevenleser Aug 2013 #218

^ Your emoticons pretty much sum up how I view your TV appearances whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #225

Someone lost their alerting privileges for a day. Jury results went 0-6 to leave this alone. Electric Monk Aug 2013 #230

Another BS post and you know it. Transphobia is live and well in US and everywhere else in the world idwiyo Aug 2013 #201

You're defending an OP that contains wrong information and perpetuates negative stereotypes by stevenleser Aug 2013 #205

Your desire to smear OP as a bigot is disgusting, and you know it but keep repeating the same idwiyo Aug 2013 #209

LOL, and you're still trying to do it!!!!!! stevenleser Aug 2013 #210

I think the point is more of the fact that they released it as evidence of her mental instability. Neoma Aug 2013 #245

Well, it was released by the defense, i.e. Manning and her team. So if we are going to be outraged stevenleser Aug 2013 #251

Wait a minute--first Bradley Manning is being smeared by a picture, and now the OP msanthrope Aug 2013 #202

Survey says... stevenleser Aug 2013 #211

You just can't stop digging. Shameful. idwiyo Aug 2013 #215

Why are you answering for the OP? Look, if Catherina feels there is something wrong with msanthrope Aug 2013 #217

Be careful dbackjon Aug 2013 #219

They'd have to take me off ignore, first. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #224

His therapist testified in open court. He talked about his gender identity issue, MADem Aug 2013 #136

Ah, I had no idea! Thanks to you and msanthrope! arcane1 Aug 2013 #137

No problem--the original gist of the OP is that the defendant was being maligned, so it's MADem Aug 2013 #138

I'd blame the lack of facts in the OP for your nausea. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #142

I don't understand ProSense Aug 2013 #28

Thank you--I just pointed out that the OP is complaining about a DEFENSE EXHIBIT. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #31

If you dont understand ask the OP what her intent was. It was clear to me and it rhett o rick Aug 2013 #267

I find your OP disengenous--This is a defense exhibit, and released under a FOIA request..... msanthrope Aug 2013 #29

+1 n/t tammywammy Aug 2013 #34

Damn! Is somebody lying? Lying is bad. Nobody should lie. nt bemildred Aug 2013 #39

I would never assume maliciousness when plain ignorance seems to be available as a defense. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #61

Assume, no, but infer, perhaps, and by no means just rule it out. bemildred Aug 2013 #102

Nailed it...nt SidDithers Aug 2013 #44

A rock solid guarantee that he did NOT nail it. lol nt Bonobo Aug 2013 #243

Well, the OP has been edited 3 times. lol...nt SidDithers Aug 2013 #244

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #252

I am a she, as my username clearly indicates. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #262

So really it is Gawker who is tossing the image around the net? Not the Army? PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #52

Yes. It's a post-trial exhibit entered by the Defense. msanthrope Aug 2013 #53

Thank you. n/t Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #56

We try. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #59

It's nearly impossible at this point Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #70

Well, this thread is a testament to how basic logic escapes some. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #75

Even though all four countries apologized. former9thward Aug 2013 #88

LOL Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #90

Why did the countries apologize? former9thward Aug 2013 #92

They forced down his plane by hacking his fuel gauge Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #94

You know why? Because sometimes you apologize when you've done nothing wrong because the other msanthrope Aug 2013 #141

I'm sorry snooper2 Aug 2013 #198

This is the truth, and the OP should change it. LaydeeBug Aug 2013 #133

once again here you are rocking the facts Egnever Aug 2013 #144

You are quite welcome. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #145

+++ Whisp Aug 2013 #254

bastards n/t warrprayer Aug 2013 #35

Who??? The DEFENSE, who put this into evidence? Or the people who filed the FOIA that released it? msanthrope Aug 2013 #51

A lot of transgender women go to the military before ultimately accepting themselves AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #46

Guess he's in good company of 9/11 figurehead ex-Mayor Giuliani & Disney icon Julie Andrews tomm2thumbs Aug 2013 #48

Love this reply Matariki Aug 2013 #49

This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Aug 2013 #60

You mean his defense attorney? Because had you read the thread, you would have realized this msanthrope Aug 2013 #64

They released it as part of the official trial records. I still don't get Catherina Aug 2013 #65

You are the one plastering it Catherina. Another hoax. Will your clique call you on it? KittyWampus Aug 2013 #72

Just thought I'd keep this for posterity.... msanthrope Aug 2013 #80

Blame it on whoever made the FOIA request that released it...you know...the press, msanthrope Aug 2013 #73

So you're in favor of secret tribunals? Crabby Appleton Aug 2013 #115

Apparently that would be Manning's defense team, whoever filed the FOIA and gawker.com Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2013 #67

Isn't there some patient-doctor confidentiality? Renew Deal Aug 2013 #68

Sure--until your lawyer enters the email and picture into evidence in a court of law, and msanthrope Aug 2013 #76

I think he looks nice like that. bravenak Aug 2013 #69

I applaud your humble integrity. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2013 #71

Wow. This dude is a hero in my book. He gave his life for freedom. nt limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #74

I think so too. Manning's Goals Catherina Aug 2013 #77

As a straight woman, I'd think the nudity forced lexington filly Aug 2013 #78

+1000 n/t Catherina Aug 2013 #82

wow, that is a very sad observation G_j Aug 2013 #113

Smart... Sotf Aug 2013 #171

Would you prefer a dead soldier? MADem Aug 2013 #185

Deplorable, unprofessional, sleazy, intentionally cruel, not unlike his solitary confinement 99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #79

Um--his defense attorney entered this into evidence. It was released under FOIA msanthrope Aug 2013 #83

I updated/corrected the OP. These were released as part of the trial records Catherina Aug 2013 #87

You're angry at Gawker? ProSense Aug 2013 #91

still avoiding a full disclosure that the release was at the hands of the DEFENSE Sheepshank Aug 2013 #118

Why then did you post the picture of Manning ? lumpy Aug 2013 #130

Manning's "traitorous act" included revealing child sex-slavery burnodo Aug 2013 #81

He exposed that and many war crimes. That's honorable. Covering them up is NOT n/t Catherina Aug 2013 #84

I think the real question is.... burnodo Aug 2013 #86

And if that's all he'd done, he wouldn't have been on trial. But as his apology demonstrated msanthrope Aug 2013 #85

Right. burnodo Aug 2013 #89

Well, it would have been craploads easier for him had he just gone for whistleblower status under msanthrope Aug 2013 #93

Pick and choose is what Manning should have done Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #95

Yes burnodo Aug 2013 #103

Do you not understand Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #106

The government is accountable to the people burnodo Aug 2013 #110

I was anticipating Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #114

And those who freed the slaves knew they were breaking the law burnodo Aug 2013 #116

Yes, of course Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #119

I am burnodo Aug 2013 #120

Congratulations! Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #139

OMG Egnever Aug 2013 #149

Thank you, Egnever ... Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #151

Be all you can be ...in the army. Assholes first class! L0oniX Aug 2013 #96

Reading the other stuff on the FOIA link Catherina Aug 2013 #98

I'm sure his defense would not want to bring that out as it would show cause for revenge. n/t L0oniX Aug 2013 #100

You should've not posted it. tblue Aug 2013 #101

Whats wrong with the photo? Should Manning be ashamed of being transgender? AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #104

I debated... Then I saw it was all over the internet already and on LGBT websites Catherina Aug 2013 #107

lolol. it is public record. I'm glad you went back and corrected the OP Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #111

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #117

You don't feel chastised after posting such an intemperate OP that it had to be edited msanthrope Aug 2013 #148

s/he looks nice Skittles Aug 2013 #109

Why is this "appalling?" Surely you don't think there's anything "wrong" with being transgender? MADem Aug 2013 #122

But why did the army release it? BainsBane Aug 2013 #125

FOIA....the Freedom of Information Act. MADem Aug 2013 #127

Do you know that's how it actually came to be released? BainsBane Aug 2013 #128

Here's a list of all documents FOIA released tammywammy Aug 2013 #131

Thank you BainsBane Aug 2013 #162

It was actually a defense exhibit and was released under FOIA Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #134

In this case, this evidence--and a lot more--was presented in open court. MADem Aug 2013 #135

Thanks for the info BainsBane Aug 2013 #160

It was released pursuant to the scores of FOIA requests that the press, and Manning's supporters msanthrope Aug 2013 #143

Thanks BainsBane Aug 2013 #161

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #146

Hear hear and kudos to msanthrope and others who righted this wrong. great white snark Aug 2013 #154

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #163

Gotta agree Egnever Aug 2013 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #157

I only hope that Michelle Catalano Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #152

I'm gonna google 'quinoa' and 'Bradley Manning' and 'Wikileaks' and see who shows up msanthrope Aug 2013 #156

You've got to give this OP credit for one thing Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #158

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #164

Well, quite sadly (IMHO) Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #167

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #169

The OP won't delete Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #175

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #176

It's not bad. Puglover Aug 2013 #188

Should I post a list of Catherina's bogus threads? There is now an entire catalog. I'd post a map KittyWampus Aug 2013 #192

Yeah "little clique" Puglover Aug 2013 #199

"Should I post a list of Catherina's bogus threads?" Putting all that in one place might just Number23 Aug 2013 #222

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #166

The Jury did a good job. RudynJack Aug 2013 #172

This message was self-deleted by its author joshcryer Aug 2013 #174

Can you explain RudynJack Aug 2013 #178

It means it had already been alerted / judged on before joshcryer did Scootaloo Aug 2013 #179

du rec. xchrom Aug 2013 #186

Really? Do you understand what you are reccing here? See my #190. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #191

There were more recs last night. I've noticed a few quiet drop-offs. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #204

By now I hope you realize the multiple problems with your OP stevenleser Aug 2013 #190

That's a lot of outrage but I cant understand where it's directed. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #266

Only in your own mind, stevenleser! Th1onein Aug 2013 #281

Dehumanization get the red out Aug 2013 #206

His defense is out to harm him? tammywammy Aug 2013 #207

You would benefit from reading the facts contained within the thread. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #208

You do realize that for many people here Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #227

Armed forces comply with FOIA, haters soil themselves with fauxtrage geek tragedy Aug 2013 #228

Would you mind explaining who you are calling haters? The OP is supportive of Manning. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #268

The typical "US government/Obama administration is evil" types. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #269

And how does that tie into this discussion? Or are you equating support of Manning rhett o rick Aug 2013 #270

The original version of this OP condemned the army for releasing this picture, claiming geek tragedy Aug 2013 #271

And that justifies disparaging the OP? Are you against all "unwarranted outrage" or rhett o rick Aug 2013 #273

It's the old ready, fire, aim approach where they assume the worst. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #275

The OP was mis-characterized as a " fucking LGBT-phobe" and then disparaged for it. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #277

Did I make that comment? nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #279

No. But the point is that you would disparage the OP and let the one that did make that rhett o rick Aug 2013 #280

That doesnt fit. Looks like you are calling those supporting Manning as haters. Ironic. nm rhett o rick Aug 2013 #274

I support Bradley Manning. PERIOD. Th1onein Aug 2013 #234

He looks better than that stupid ass Petraus's girlfriend Generic Other Aug 2013 #236

I am mistaken Generic Other Aug 2013 #263

funny noiretextatique Aug 2013 #260

It appears to me that the point of disesent is that the Skidmore Aug 2013 #272

Sounds like a rationalization for ganging up on the OP. Her mistake didnt change her outrage for rhett o rick Aug 2013 #276

Noiretextatique! My sis and personal friend! Catherina Aug 2013 #278

i can't wait to get out of here noiretextatique Aug 2013 #282

We're waiting for you Catherina Aug 2013 #284

Sucks to have sensitive, private information stolen and released. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #283