Strange how the same people running around calling everyone Authoritarians

[ljm2002]

22. "If you don't march in lockstep to their worldview"...

..."you are mocked, shamed, insulted, and called names."

Do you really want to go there? Are you contending that those on your side of the issue don't mock, shame and call people names? Really???

Please proceed, JV.

Furthermore, you then resort to the usual nonsense that anyone who believes Snowden's revelations were useful, must be "worshipping someone" and must feel "the need to elevate someone to God-like status". Is this supposed to represent your side's "tolerance, open mindedness, rationality"? Really???

So after your little screed, you proceed into a discussion of the issues and trot out a veritable hailstorm of old and worn talking points:

- "fairly old news"... right, and that's why the government has their hair on fire to get this guy, and that's why people are in an uproar over all of this: because we've heard it all before.

- "numerous safeguards"... yet the FISA court says it has no ability to oversee the NSA, the Congress critters claim they never saw any of this stuff, and the President claims the NSA never abuses its power.

- "overwhelming lack of evidence"... rather the reverse, I'd say.

- "no proof that the Govt is actually even spying on us"... er, you did read the stories about information being passed on to the DEA, and the DEA officers being instructed to create a "parallel construction" in order to cover up where the information originated. Right?

- "no one is suing the NSA for violations"... good grief, you really aren't paying attention, are you? First of all, many have tried, but were rebuffed because they had no standing because they couldn't prove the NSA was spying on them. Do you see the circularity there? In any case, now that we know more, there are indeed suits in progress. Here's one:

http://mashable.com/2013/07/17/eff-sues-nsa/

Electronic Frontier Foundation Files Lawsuit Against NSA

(the article says this suit is being pursued by a coalition of 19 groups) More from the article:

This newest suit is one of several legal challenges to NSA surveillance. Another, by Amnesty International, which challenged the Bush-era warrantless wiretapping programs, went all the way to the Supreme Court. But the justices struck it down, ruling that the plaintiffs (who were journalists and human rights activists) didn't have legal standing, since they couldn't directly prove they were targets of the surveillance.

The EFF believes that, thanks to Snowden and the leaked Verizon FISA Court order, that argument won't work this time. The 19 groups have standing because the current surveillance program targets all Americans, they argue.

"It's now clear that virtually everyone's phone call records can be gathered in this metadata collection program, so I believe they do have standing," University of Chicago law professor Geoffrey Stone told the Associated Press.

You may want to consider some new talking points.