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In reply to the discussion: How does "data may be queried only when there is a reasonable suspicion" = 20 million/month? [View all]leveymg
(36,418 posts)1. Back in June, I wasn't that far off in my upper estimate of NSA profiling of 90 million callers/mo.
Here's the rule of thumb estimate contained in the longish analysis I posted on June 30 of the second set of NSA training slides released by Snowden: http://election.democraticunderground.com/10023134820
PRISM PROFILING estimate: 90 million callers each month.
SLIDE 4 shows that 117,000 persons were profiled as of April 5, 2013. That may not seem like a very large number. But, NSA analysts are also trained to look at all communications, two hops out from a targeted person. The implication of that is that the initial PROFILING step outlined in SLIDE 1 profiles very large numbers of persons, and thus has no real 4th Amendment protection for US persons profiled.
How can that be if the system segregates US person data and is court approved? Look at SLIDES 1 and 2, again. Keep in mind the flow chart that shows how PRISM works. Everyone who has been in communication with those 117,000 targets indicated in SLIDE 4 is also investigated, and (at another hop) everyone they have been talking to or emailing or texting or chatting on Internet boards. Because these numbers grow exponentially with each hop, that means that if those 117K persons targeted by PRISM called 30 people that month, and they in turn called 30, the PRISM analysts will have initiated investigations of some 90 million persons each month. That could be more than a billion people each year are profiled. Profiling on this vast scale is consistent with known NSA's statistics: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/27/nsa-online-metadata-collection
SLIDE 4 shows that 117,000 persons were profiled as of April 5, 2013. That may not seem like a very large number. But, NSA analysts are also trained to look at all communications, two hops out from a targeted person. The implication of that is that the initial PROFILING step outlined in SLIDE 1 profiles very large numbers of persons, and thus has no real 4th Amendment protection for US persons profiled.
How can that be if the system segregates US person data and is court approved? Look at SLIDES 1 and 2, again. Keep in mind the flow chart that shows how PRISM works. Everyone who has been in communication with those 117,000 targets indicated in SLIDE 4 is also investigated, and (at another hop) everyone they have been talking to or emailing or texting or chatting on Internet boards. Because these numbers grow exponentially with each hop, that means that if those 117K persons targeted by PRISM called 30 people that month, and they in turn called 30, the PRISM analysts will have initiated investigations of some 90 million persons each month. That could be more than a billion people each year are profiled. Profiling on this vast scale is consistent with known NSA's statistics: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/27/nsa-online-metadata-collection
This confirms, in general, the two hops out approach but shows one of two things: 1) the NSA's search parameters at the initial PRISM profiling stage have additional factors built in that somewhat limits the potential search and targeting pools; or 2) the average number of new numbers dialed per month by the 117,000 NSA designated terrorists isn't 30 (as I guessed), but 9 or 10.
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How does "data may be queried only when there is a reasonable suspicion" = 20 million/month? [View all]
dkf
Aug 2013
OP
Back in June, I wasn't that far off in my upper estimate of NSA profiling of 90 million callers/mo.
leveymg
Aug 2013
#1
For scale, a couple decades ago their were about 1 billion domestic phone calls per day
FarCenter
Aug 2013
#13
The system is largely automated. The profiling software determines who's call gets assigned to an
leveymg
Aug 2013
#6
Cause the queries to suspission ratio could be 1 supect to n number of queries but I'm sure
uponit7771
Aug 2013
#3
They can query foreign communications data a hundred million times a month if they want.
randome
Aug 2013
#12
No they guess at the "foreignness". If it were that precise they wouldn't have any US data.
dkf
Aug 2013
#21
I don't think that is how it works. Very inefficient for one thing, and efficiency matters a lot. nt
bemildred
Aug 2013
#20
I don't know what the NSA does, or any spooks, but I know a good deal about databases.
bemildred
Aug 2013
#26
Which is why the government is at the forefront in developing ways to handle uber data.
dkf
Aug 2013
#28
True, but cross link a name, IP address, email, phone #s, etc together and isn't that one query?
dkf
Aug 2013
#35
Like I posted earlier, they were using it in Iraq to predict attacks and I imagine unrest.
dkf
Aug 2013
#48
Also this: NSA establishes $60 million data analytics lab at NC State Published: August 15, 2013 Up
dkf
Aug 2013
#30
This is computing theory, performance theory, it's math. Finite math. They aren't going to fix it.
bemildred
Aug 2013
#39
Unfortunately they found in Iraq that the more data they added the better the predictive capability
dkf
Aug 2013
#40
The algos they use in the US probably track the Dow. The CIA has been working on this sort of thing
leveymg
Aug 2013
#51