General Discussion

christx30

(6,241 posts)

69. How can we have any kind of substantiated

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:05 PM

Aug 2013

debate about what's going on when everything is secret? Secret courts, secret legal interpretations. Nature abhors a vaccuum, as they say. And if there was nothing to it, they wouldn't be going after Snowden as they are. They wouldn't be detaining Greenwald's assistant for 9 hours at London Heathrow. They wouldn't be threatening Lavabit with contempt of (secret) court for closing down his business rather than spy on users that specifically chose his business to avoid being spied on.
I think mistrust in the government is a good, healthy thing. Keeps us asking questions, which (attempts to, at least) keep the politicians honest. I encourage questioning and mistrust. I encourage demands for answers. Until we find out more about what's actually going on (and I would be slow to trust official word about it. I'd sooner trust a hunted down whistleblower), the demands for answers will keep coming.

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I Am Beyond Sick/Tired Of Being Called An "Authoritarian NSA Apologist". [View all] KittyWampus Aug 2013 OP

Shoes fitting, cakes having and eating, etc.. cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #1

As someone who was here on DU watching Nader's aftermath unfold years ago� KittyWampus Aug 2013 #2

Sounds like projection of the double standard CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #18

It's projection all right. reusrename Aug 2013 #134

"Sounds like projection of the double standard" villager Aug 2013 #176

Some Clinton fans love this episode. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #28

"Nader's aftermath" Webster Green Aug 2013 #79

If anything will push Democrats into the Green Party, it is Democratics condoning this surveillance. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #88

I hope all those who have lost their minds on this issue go Green. stevenleser Aug 2013 #125

What a shame that the hair on fire stuff isn't quite as appealing as fascism to some people. reusrename Aug 2013 #135

Not really. Rex Aug 2013 #139

LOL, right, because the choice is raving about unsubstantiated claims or Fascism. stevenleser Aug 2013 #156

We are deliberately examining it and fixing it. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #145

No, the group to which you belong is not deliberately examining or fixing it. You're jumping on stevenleser Aug 2013 #157

It didn't end 40 years ago, and the War-Criminals and Torturers were Never Punished HumansAndResources Aug 2013 #158

Yes. alarimer Aug 2013 #172

Huh? Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #81

Then stop making it about the personalities and about the facts as known hootinholler Aug 2013 #3

The "government attacks on Snowden the person"????? karynnj Aug 2013 #55

How has Snowden harmed US foreign policy? JDPriestly Aug 2013 #90

Making what many knew public means that many countries karynnj Aug 2013 #106

My favorite for 2016 is clear from my signature line. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #144

+1000. nt awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #159

That's not possible. jeff47 Aug 2013 #102

the answer to your question lies in decades of deception by.... grasswire Aug 2013 #4

I'd like to see the flight path you filed, before making a judgement on your facts. The Link Aug 2013 #5

it would look like a pretzel Skittles Aug 2013 #26

The doubling down in responses to you is pretty funny. If the facts are with you, you dont have to stevenleser Aug 2013 #6

+1...nt SidDithers Aug 2013 #8

+1 nt Progressive dog Aug 2013 #10

+1 nt jazzimov Aug 2013 #12

+1 CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #15

And THAT'S why they love you at Newscorp. East Coast Pirate Aug 2013 #20

Hee,hee bahrbearian Aug 2013 #30

See my #120 nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #122

See post #43 bahrbearian Aug 2013 #124

That post has nothing to do with me. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #126

Thank you for again proving my point stevenleser Aug 2013 #59

That was silliness. East Coast Pirate Aug 2013 #77

Shoe fits etc. nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #78

It's always interesting to see who applauds cheap shots. It's bad enough to make one but stevenleser Aug 2013 #120

I appreciate a good one. No need to try and top it. Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #128

A cheap shot is a cheap shot. Saying it's a "good" one is like saying stevenleser Aug 2013 #129

It was a good one and in this thread deserved for defending what is indefensible. Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #130

See my #129 nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #131

I'd do it again in a heartbeat. My patience is gone. nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #132

See my #129 nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #133

oh yeah arely staircase Aug 2013 #25

+1 Hekate Aug 2013 #38

you mean names like ratf**kers? azurnoir Aug 2013 #43

+1 nt Grateful for Hope Aug 2013 #108

Yeah, the facts must be with her. Puglover Aug 2013 #113

+1 tallahasseedem Aug 2013 #118

oops Phlem Aug 2013 #7

Meh. The Democratic party has been destroying itself for decades leftstreet Aug 2013 #9

so why do you vote for democrats? arely staircase Aug 2013 #14

I increasingly ask myself the same question. Comrade Grumpy Aug 2013 #22

Cost of running is prohibitive. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #49

Nice try leftstreet Aug 2013 #27

Yes, it was much healthier in 1988 geek tragedy Aug 2013 #45

How about getting an independent Special Prosecutor to investigate the NSA/CIA to get the facts? Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #11

A dash of Politeness chowder66 Aug 2013 #13

I'd like to see people tire of name calling. Igel Aug 2013 #31

I think stopping it all together might chowder66 Aug 2013 #36

Name-calling is the resort of the inarticulate. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #91

On one hand it is "authoritarian NSA apologist" on the other hand Rex Aug 2013 #16

You forgot about the "rascist" word used in the beginning of this discussion when Snowden JDPriestly Aug 2013 #93

You have the same doubts/reservations I do about these characters Triana Aug 2013 #17

K/R CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #19

Damn you, Firefox mobile! East Coast Pirate Aug 2013 #21

The "freedom" folks are going to put you on their list ... and this OP JoePhilly Aug 2013 #23

Ha ha East Coast Pirate Aug 2013 #24

That reminds me of the old doctor joke Warpy Aug 2013 #29

Lousy doctor. If you can't lift your knee to your chin, you need to exercise more and eat less. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #98

If it talks like an "Authoritarian NSA Apologist", and it walks like a ... 99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #32

"Authoritarian NSA Apologist" is a meaningless label based on speculation. CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #46

I have plenty of proof 99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #54

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #57

+10 RC Aug 2013 #73

+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #80

The spying violates our Constitution. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #99

and almost everyone here would agree with you... awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #161

Then stop doing it. quakerboy Aug 2013 #33

I question whatever happened to the gun debate.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #34

surely iamthebandfanman Aug 2013 #35

It's a "shiny object" thing.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #42

...that's what you've gotten out of all this? nt Union Scribe Aug 2013 #52

I guess I'm used to living in the USA since the Cold War.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #58

Maybe some are Cryptoad Aug 2013 #64

I'm pissed that they cheapened it by having EVERYBODY get one.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #100

ummmm Cryptoad Aug 2013 #104

Uh huh... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #115

Spot On. Thank you, KittyWampus. Hekate Aug 2013 #37

R#25 & K for, there's great balm to be had in JaneyVee's thread: UTUSN Aug 2013 #39

LOL. Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #40

yeh, like that has never happened. Whisp Aug 2013 #94

Can you explain who the 'us' is in your claim just before your 'some liberals' materials... Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #41

Let's ask Kimberley Dvorak and Michele Catalano. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #44

Speaking on insisting on facts... Matariki Aug 2013 #47

beyond sick kardonb Aug 2013 #48

How can we have any kind of substantiated christx30 Aug 2013 #69

Really? Egnever Aug 2013 #110

Cheney: "We have to work the dark side" tblue Aug 2013 #151

K&R. n/t FSogol Aug 2013 #50

Great post! Scurrilous Aug 2013 #51

Invading Countries Is The Preferred Method otohara Aug 2013 #53

That's marching orders straight from julian assange's whiny tweet.. Cha Aug 2013 #56

Have you noticed that their talking points Iliyah Aug 2013 #61

To quote a brilliant DUer: tblue Aug 2013 #147

I am getting fucking sick and tired of supposed liberal Democrats baldguy Aug 2013 #60

What you said. greatauntoftriplets Aug 2013 #62

The Pauls have nothing to do with this. Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #83

The Pauls have nothing to do with this - except that their acolytes seem to be writing the script. baldguy Aug 2013 #92

I am not into CTs esp when it involves bit players like the Pauls. Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #97

The idea that Snowdens & Greenwalds critics are automatically totalitarian fascists is a CT. baldguy Aug 2013 #101

Please proceed. nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #105

You think using RW talking points to attack a Democratic President doesn't play into the GOPs hands? baldguy Aug 2013 #171

This. Jamaal510 Aug 2013 #136

I'll see your Paulite and raise you a Cheneyite tblue Aug 2013 #150

Except that Snowden and Cheney are birds of a feather. baldguy Aug 2013 #153

Oh, that was funny. OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #63

How funny Cryptoad Aug 2013 #65

If one is tired of being called and labeled an authoritarian, then maybe they should stop quinnox Aug 2013 #66

Or maybe one should stop labeling and namecalling. What is the constructive purpose there? CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #67

lol, well, good luck with that recommendation on a political message board/forum quinnox Aug 2013 #70

Isn't it authoritarian to demand not being tblue Aug 2013 #152

too bad you don't believe in the EFF or the ACLU either Defectata Aug 2013 #68

Sure we do. The ACLU has been on both sides of this issue. They applauded Kennedy for creating FISA stevenleser Aug 2013 #121

There was a post here the other day that was filled with fear-mongering SaveAmerica Aug 2013 #71

Hell to the YEAH! BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #72

you focus on the trees that don't look right in order to deny the existence of the forest.... mike_c Aug 2013 #74

^^ Nailed it. n/t winter is coming Aug 2013 #86

This post seems to have some facts TomClash Aug 2013 #75

The OP is misleading Android3.14 Aug 2013 #76

I don't get it TomClash Aug 2013 #82

This is like a conspiracy theory. nt boston bean Aug 2013 #84

I don't necessarily have a problem with you or other's positions... 1awake Aug 2013 #85

This is not a partisan issue. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #87

It seems that the two sides here are really on the same side. gtar100 Aug 2013 #89

I have never accused anyone of being an Authoritarian NSA Apologist. A Simple Game Aug 2013 #95

You're tired of being called names? ljm2002 Aug 2013 #96

Nice post! Puglover Aug 2013 #109

^^^^^this^^^^^^ azurnoir Aug 2013 #111

"I think"!!?!??! How bout some facts? uponit7771 Aug 2013 #141

So who is doing it? joshcryer Aug 2013 #143

thank you. + 1000 That was brilliant. I am beyond sick and tired of hearing pro-authoritarians Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #148

Equally sick of Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #164

so name names.. frylock Aug 2013 #165

I think you are lying and you know you are lying, Name one - just one Paulite Libertarian who post Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #167

I think you're lying Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #170

oh give me a break. Everyone here is poitically astute enough to know that wanting to curtail Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #174

then why have you tried so hard to earn the designation? stupidicus Aug 2013 #103

You forgot "half-bright personality cultist who can't read a map" LeftyMom Aug 2013 #107

Great post, KittyWampus. Thanks! n/t pnwmom Aug 2013 #112

You had me at RATFUCKER! Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #114

K&R n/t michigandem58 Aug 2013 #116

That's ok, people are concerned about preserving felix_numinous Aug 2013 #117

Amen! If not for us, there'd be no one tblue Aug 2013 #146

So you Just want to be left to holler ratfucker, racist, Paulbot, Libertarian, "hair on fire", TheKentuckian Aug 2013 #119

Why is this traumatic to you? MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #123

Like the debt, it only becomes a problem when the brown guy does it. 6000eliot Aug 2013 #127

I think that Jamaal510 Aug 2013 #137

Then change your tone. Go read the heading on your post about Miranda having docs cui bono Aug 2013 #138

********AMEN************** uponit7771 Aug 2013 #140

Got a link to the poll? I'll put it in my sig. joshcryer Aug 2013 #142

Then quit being one. n/t Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #149

If you are sick of being called names Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #154

Cry me some crocodile tears. Pholus Aug 2013 #155

If Romney was in office would your opinion be different on the NSA revelations? Puzzledtraveller Aug 2013 #160

K&R Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #162

Your not? Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #163

Stop being one then. n/t Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #166

When a poster's first reaction to every story is, morningfog Aug 2013 #168

Pejoratives tend to illustrate the lack of character... LanternWaste Aug 2013 #169

Just my opinion but people calling you a "Authoritarian NSA Apologist" are being to nice for Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #173

That's not right. I like to call you The Cartographer. DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #175

What was it you called me... 'reactionary shrieking ratfucker', or something to that effect. Marr Aug 2013 #177

Greenwald works for the PTB. Californeeway Aug 2013 #178

RW cons have the same "black/white dichotomy" requirement.. DCBob Aug 2013 #179

It's because of these folks and their "liberal" affiliates. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2013 #180