Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

MADem

(135,425 posts)
54. Ron Paul must not be a "true libertarian," civil or otherwise, then; he fails two out of three.
Mon Aug 19, 2013, 02:08 AM
Aug 2013

Because he came out against marriage equality, very specifically, with a decisive statement. He has weasel-worded here and there, to try to bullshit people who aren't paying close attention, but his "man and woman/marriage is a sacrament" POV is pretty clear:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul#Same-sex_marriage

Asked his opinion on same-sex marriage in October 2011, Paul expressed his support for marriage privatization by replying, "Biblically and historically, the government was very uninvolved in marriage. I like that. I don't know why we should register our marriage to the federal government. I think it's a sacrament." In the same interview, when asked whether he would vote for or against a state constitutional amendment like California's Proposition 8, he said, 'Well, I believe marriage is between one man and one woman."[140]

Previously, in a 2007 interview, Paul had said that he supports the right of gay couples to marry, so long as they didn't "impose" their relationship on anyone else, on the grounds of supporting voluntary associations.[141] He also said, "Matter of fact, I'd like to see all governments out of the marriage question. I don't think it's a state function, I think it's a religious function." Paul has stated that in a best case scenario, governments would enforce contracts and grant divorces but otherwise have no say in marriage.[142] He has also said he doesn't want to interfere in the free association of two individuals in a social, sexual, and religious sense.[143][144] When asked if he was supportive of gay marriage, Paul responded, "I am supportive of all voluntary associations and people can call it whatever they want."[143]

Paul had also said that at the federal level he opposed “efforts to redefine marriage as something other than a union between one man and one woman.” He believes that recognizing or legislating marriages should be left to the states and local communities, and not subjected to "judicial activism."[145] He has said that for these reasons he would have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, had he been in Congress in 1996. The act allows a state to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states or countries, although a state will usually recognize marriages performed outside of its own jurisdiction. The act also prohibits the U.S. Government from recognizing same-sex marriages, even if a state recognizes the marriage.

He has opposed the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would amend the US Constitution to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman, because he worries that with its passage “liberal social engineers who wish to use federal government power to redefine marriage will be able to point to the constitutional marriage amendment as proof that the definition of marriage is indeed a federal matter! I am unwilling either to cede to federal courts the authority to redefine marriage, or to deny a state’s ability to preserve the traditional definition of marriage.”[145]

Paul has been a cosponsor of the Marriage Protection Act in each Congress since the bill's original introduction. It would bar federal judges from hearing cases pertaining to the constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act. Speaking in support of the Marriage Protection Act in 2004, he urged those of his fellow congressional representatives who “believe Congress needs to take immediate action to protect marriage” to vote for the bill because its passage, requiring only simple majorities in both Houses of Congress, would be much more readily achieved than the passage of the Federal Marriage Amendment, which, as a Constitutional amendment, would require not only much larger majorities in both Houses but also ratification by the state legislatures.[145]



And he's no fan of voting rights--he is full of excuses, e.g. he doesn't think there's a problem anymore, and thinks that ensuring voting rights for a sizable percentage of our population:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul#Voting_Rights_Act
In 2006, Paul joined 32 other members of Congress in opposing the renewal of the 1965 Voting Rights Act, originally passed to remove barriers to voting participation for minorities.[300] Paul has indicated that he did not object to the voting rights clauses, but rather to restrictions placed on property rights by the bill.[301] He felt the federal interference mandated by the bill was costly and unjustified because the situation for minorities voting is much different than when the bill was passed 40 years ago. Many of Texas' Republican representatives voted against the bill, because they believe it specifically singles out some Southern states, including Texas, for federal Justice Department oversight that makes it difficult for localities to change the location of a polling place or other small acts without first receiving permission from the federal government.[302] The bill also mandated bilingual voting ballots upon request, which Paul objected to on the grounds that one of the requirements of gaining United States citizenship is ability to read in English, and that as it currently stands it often forces large expenditures to prepare materials that are in some cases never used.[303]




The fact that he's regarded as a hero by Snowden and Assange is problematic. It's just unreasonable to not infer some kind of common cause.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/08/julian-assange-backs-ron-and-rand-paul/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/edward-snowden-ron-paul_n_3414992.html

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Ah yes, our old friends at Little Green Footballs. nt bemildred Aug 2013 #1
Does this change the fact that Obama lied to us and tried to stifle the free press? last1standing Aug 2013 #2
What lie are you referring to? How did he try to stifle the free press? pnwmom Aug 2013 #28
If you look through the forum you'll find posts on both. last1standing Aug 2013 #33
What's more disgusting is the dishonesty of this post. Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #3
That makes perfect sense railsback Aug 2013 #52
Dishonest AND a logical fallacy -- it's a two-fer! KurtNYC Aug 2013 #68
Good Lord mick063 Aug 2013 #4
Except none of that is actually on that sight. n/t 1awake Aug 2013 #6
No it isn't mick063 Aug 2013 #8
Yes, I wasn't arguing with you just pointing out 1awake Aug 2013 #38
ad nauseum et ad hominem MNBrewer Aug 2013 #61
and LGF is running an ad by Porter Stansberry Enrique Aug 2013 #5
Fix your title to reflect the truth please. n/t whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #7
I'm calling for a lock mick063 Aug 2013 #9
Jury went 3-3 Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #10
I agree whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #11
Does the Wikileaks store carry the ones with Obama as a target? David Krout Aug 2013 #12
Overlap indeed Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #13
I like dogs. So did Hitler. Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #22
And the jury results are in... aikoaiko Aug 2013 #14
Juror #3 whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #15
How strange our jury system is. If the OP posts lies, that's fine but if we call out the lies... last1standing Aug 2013 #34
I found the stuff pictured... Archae Aug 2013 #16
Yet the OP refuses to self-delete this nonsense. Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #18
Asaange and Wikileaks have enough to discredit them... Archae Aug 2013 #24
And Assange's self-proclaimed alliance with the "Libertarian section of the Republican party." nt pnwmom Aug 2013 #30
There are a lot of things that Civil Libertarians and Libertarians agree about. Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #36
But Assange specifically supports the Paul's, and they don't support marriage equality, pnwmom Aug 2013 #44
Assange agrees with SOME Libertarian views Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #48
You're pointing out subtleties that the broadbrush DU LibertarianHaters aren't capable of grasping MNBrewer Aug 2013 #62
Ron Paul must not be a "true libertarian," civil or otherwise, then; he fails two out of three. MADem Aug 2013 #54
I think if you asked either Snowden or Assange, they would say they disagree with the Pauls on this. Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #63
Lie down with a dog, ya get up with fleas... nt MADem Aug 2013 #64
This message was self-deleted by its author Cha Aug 2013 #17
None of those images are on the Wikileaks site. Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #19
Yeah, I just deleted and will unrec. Cha Aug 2013 #23
Thank you! Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #26
Exactly. Cha Aug 2013 #29
Hell... I even rec'd a post by... Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #32
.. Cha Aug 2013 #37
+1 whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #27
Good on ya! last1standing Aug 2013 #35
Yes stupidity sucks. So does a lying OP. n/t whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #20
Hey differently-abled OPer. Ur post R bullshit leftstreet Aug 2013 #21
In true 'under the bridge style' the OP dropped a turd and ran whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #25
Your OP title is a bit dishonest Marrah_G Aug 2013 #31
unrec for posting blatant propaganda then lying about it.... mike_c Aug 2013 #39
Bullshit. Octafish Aug 2013 #40
If the second one said Corporate Socialists... burnodo Aug 2013 #42
honesty from this OP? uh, nope. KG Aug 2013 #41
Let's just call it straight. uhnope is a LIAR. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #43
REC PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #45
We warned you. We, as in "Progress as Promised" not happening. Exhibit A Safetykitten Aug 2013 #46
If I didn't know better I'd think you just wanted to put these pictures up on DU Fumesucker Aug 2013 #47
They can sell what they want, you are under no obligation to buy. hobbit709 Aug 2013 #49
I switched around some words in the OP, but complaining about the messenger... uhnope Aug 2013 #50
That might sell pretty good here on DU. So far I haven't heard "I want my country back" Obama! demosincebirth Aug 2013 #51
So? If you look into anybody's business associates, you could find something distasteful. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #53
So it's who the wikileaks/Assange people know and work with. uhnope Aug 2013 #57
So? Pick anybody you want. I'll dig up a distasteful friend or associate on that person in 5 minutes limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #58
we call that making excuses. nt uhnope Aug 2013 #65
We call that guilt by association limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #66
the former spokesman for Wikileaks confirms uhnope Aug 2013 #69
I bet that first one is a hot seller JNelson6563 Aug 2013 #55
Bullshit and you know it. It makes you look morningfog Aug 2013 #56
Let's see... deceitful post... hit and run... "Obama Derangement Syndrome" references... Marr Aug 2013 #59
Detective Paranoid and his dog uhnope Aug 2013 #67
While I find the other merchandise produced by that vendor to be disgusting... MNBrewer Aug 2013 #60
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Disgusting: Wikileaks sto...»Reply #54