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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
52. Male or Female?
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:23 PM
Aug 2013

I once owned a male border collie that went through separation anxiety whenever we left him home alone. We ended up getting a female Australian Shepherd mix (i,e, not full blooded Australian Shepherd, but enough to pass without to much dispute).

After we had the female (Both were fixed, I was NOT going to breed), the female quickly laid down the law. She was top dog, and he better accept it. That he was bigger and stronger was NOT important, every time he started to look like he would object to her biting of him (Which she did extensively, no blood just nips) she would turn around and throw her butt into his face in effect telling him "I'm a girl, you can't touch me" and he would lower his face in a look best described as "Yes, my love" (from an old Daffy Duck Cartoon) and accepted his place.

Now, when I took them through the woods off lead, the above remained, but the Female stayed near me, while the male would run ahead and to the sides. Every time he would come in to check in (Which he did every so often), the Female would dash out to him and bark and nip at him saying in effect "Get out they and round something up for me, and if it is dangerous, you get sniped, I be safe".

When the male dog meet other dogs away from the female, he would approached them in play, smell at them and act like he was willing and able to play with them. The Female was different, she wanted to control everything and would bark at most dogs to chase them away from her and her pack.

Now, when the two dogs were together, the male dog followed the lead of the female as to other dogs, i.e bark at them to chase them away. If she thought the dog was dangerous, he was going to support her. This was true even of dogs he had meet earlier the same day (often within the same hour) that he had been willing to play with. She called the shots, he followed the tune.

Now those two were shepherds. After they had passed on, I had a large sized female Standard poodle. Poodles come in three sizes, Standard 45 pounds and over and body is at least 15 inches off the ground, Miniatures which stand between 11-15 inches between their body and the ground, and Toy which has less then 11 inches of clearance. I had the LARGE Standard poodle, not the smaller poodles.

Now when I had the two shepherds, the male would go much further afield off lead then the female. The poodle, even being female, went much further afield then my old male shepherd (I am guessing, but 2-3 times further). All my dogs weighed about 45 pounds, so size was NOT a factor. The difference is type of dog.

Now, I also ended up with a full blooded Australian Shepherd along with the poodle. At home the Australian Shepherd wanted to be boss and would try to boss the Poodle. The Poodle being female would NOT submit like my old male border collie would do to his female companion, but being a poodle would not stand her ground either. Both these dogs were female and thus the temperament was who was to be atop between them, unlike a male-female mix where the home roost was her domain, and she expected him, and he did, go out to explode for any dangers or anything interesting to bring to her.

Now, both dogs would bite each other, but shed no blood (The Australian Shepherd being much more aggressive in this then the Poodle). The Australian Shepherd would follow the Poodle when the Poodle was off lead, but would cut back sooner. Given she was running with a Poodle not another Shepherd, the Australian Shepherd would go further then my old border collie would, but once she was at that range, she clearly would be uncomfortable and break off following the Poodle and head back to me.

Just some comment on a second dog. Here are some general rules to go by:

1. Males will go afield further then females of the same breed.

2. Hunting breeds (which includes Poodles) will go 2-3 times as far away as a Shepherd breed.

3. If you have two dogs, and it is a Male and Female, the female will dominate the male.

4. If you have two dogs, of the same sex, they will dispute who is boss till that is decided, but any settlement of the dispute will NOT come at the expense of harming the "pack" as a whole, i.e. they will fight between themselves, but draw no blood AND will not object to any superior (which should be all of the humans in your household) stopping any and all fights between them.

5. Most of the fights will appear to be more play then fight, for that is what it is, they are fighting over who will dominate each other, but they do NOT want to harm each other. It is complex dynamic going on, and can change daily, but just because they are "fighting" every day mean they hate or want to harm each other, they are being dogs. If the fighting gets out of hand, put your foot down hard, they will get the message to do such "fighting" in a way that you do not object.

6. DO NOT FEED THEM OUT OF THE SAME BOWEL. They can use the same water dish, but NOT the same food dish. Wolves, when they eat together often fight each other as they wolf down their food. The reason for this appears to be that wolves are often superior at taking down game, but being smaller then most other predators can be driven away by larger predators. Thus wolfing down the food means they get more of the foot before other larger predators drive them away from the kill. This desire to eat their food quickly makes then not want to share what in front of them. Thus two dogs sharing the same bowel will snap at each other as they eat, including drawing blood (i.e. it is NOT play biting as when most dogs interact). Studies have shown if food is in their face, a wolf will view that food as theirs alone. Dogs have the same attitude to food that is in their face, it is "theirs" and it will cause them to fight each other. The best way to avoid this is two different food bowels (and this will not be play fighting as in the above dispute over dominance).

7. Dominance is over played by several "dog handlers" on TV. Dominance among wolves and dogs is more first call or first ups, then control over another dog. Dominance is more who goes FIRST then total obedience to a superior. Dominance can change depending on the circumstances, if one dog is in the lead the other dogs in that pack will follow that dog, even if he is NOT the dominant dog on a day to day basis.
For example, inside my home the Australian Shepherd rules, on walks it is the Poodle AND both accept this change based on what is going on. Dominance is more what is the best way to operate at this moment in time, then dominance of one dog over another.

Like all general rules, these are more guidelines then rigid rules, but it will give you an idea of what you will face if you bring in another dog.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Oh, she's beautiful. sheshe2 Aug 2013 #1
You are welcome! Raine1967 Aug 2013 #2
Just saw it in the BOG too~ sheshe2 Aug 2013 #3
I guess FLOTUS and the family realized Are_grits_groceries Aug 2013 #18
I've always been amazed over the years by my friends who never had pets growing maddiemom Aug 2013 #34
growing up without at least one pet seems so odd to me TorchTheWitch Aug 2013 #41
When our long time family dog was hit by a car, the driver kindly stopped and took him to our maddiemom Aug 2013 #50
Oh, both are cute. And those long tongues (nt) question everything Aug 2013 #43
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww malaise Aug 2013 #4
That's what I was wondering, I know one of Teddy's dogs was named Sunny. I thought maybe that's why Raine Aug 2013 #13
That would make sense. Raine1967 Aug 2013 #14
Teddy actually gave Bo to the Obama's as a present. Boomerproud Aug 2013 #39
pretty dog Liberal_in_LA Aug 2013 #5
Thank you. zappaman Aug 2013 #6
((hugs)) Raine1967 Aug 2013 #9
so sorry to hear that. know how hard it is, knowing what we have to do. just lost my 18-year old niyad Aug 2013 #24
Thank you. Raine1967 Aug 2013 #26
Sorry to hear that. zappaman Aug 2013 #46
Thanks zappaman Aug 2013 #45
so sorry to hear about your friend. losing our furkids is so hard. niyad Aug 2013 #23
Wow. BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #7
Had to do it.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #8
HEY!!!! Raine1967 Aug 2013 #10
Best story and Sunny underthematrix Aug 2013 #11
Aw they're both ADORABLE! nt Raine Aug 2013 #12
Poor hot doggies. Poodles need short summer haircuts. ErikJ Aug 2013 #15
Obama's dogs are not Poodles. donheld Aug 2013 #16
"Portuguese Water Dogs"? well la-di-frickin-da! ErikJ Aug 2013 #17
Yes, the difference is more where you trace the dog coming from, then DNA happyslug Aug 2013 #48
do you seriously mean to imply that the family and staff do not know how to take care of those dogs? niyad Aug 2013 #25
Ok, I gave up arguing years ago what most veterinarians and other dog experts advise. maddiemom Aug 2013 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author maddiemom Aug 2013 #36
Then why do tropical mammals have very short fur and arctic have very long? ErikJ Aug 2013 #38
Australian Cattle Dogs have short hair and large ears, Australian Shepherds short ears, long fur happyslug Aug 2013 #49
you don't realize that panting is part of their cooling mechanism? TorchTheWitch Aug 2013 #42
"Sunny" from Stevie Wonder!.. Cha Aug 2013 #19
Now, if they'd only get a kitty or two.... GoCubsGo Aug 2013 #20
Cats, due to their easier care in busy families, for one thing, are increasingly popular all the ti maddiemom Aug 2013 #37
adorable, but sorry not as cute as "tuxedo and spats" Bo cali Aug 2013 #21
Hey look, a puppy NightWatcher Aug 2013 #22
Bo & Sunny to cute....n/t skeewee08 Aug 2013 #27
Look at that tongue! I love how it flaps when she runs! ROFL!!! calimary Aug 2013 #28
As a dog owner, I get a kick out of people who didn't think they wanted pnwmom Aug 2013 #29
Going through this, myself...now that we have the best Black lab ever made, msanthrope Aug 2013 #30
The dog will thank you for it! Have fun! n/t pnwmom Aug 2013 #31
I'm starting to feel the same way! obama2terms Aug 2013 #47
Male or Female? happyslug Aug 2013 #52
You KNOW the news is damning... woo me with science Aug 2013 #32
Woof shenmue Aug 2013 #33
every puppy needs a companion sad-cafe Aug 2013 #40
She's a beauty. Beacool Aug 2013 #44
The Secret Service may have to call in reinforcements rocktivity Aug 2013 #51
Wait.... this makes Bo... BIG BROTHER! Bo's watching us all. eom tarheelsunc Aug 2013 #53
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