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Recursion

(56,582 posts)

6. Well, "abuse" implies an intent finding I'm not in a position to make

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:45 AM

Aug 2013

WSJ's reporting shows that 75% of US citizens have had their communications tracked; whether that's abuse or just poor program design is to some extent beside the point.

And, yes, we're seeing checks and balances acting, if slowly. (And, as I've said before, I'm not convinced the leaks make this process work better, though since that's where we are now, there's little sense whining about it.)

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Fair is fair: I said "I want evidence the NSA is actually misusing data". We have that now. [View all] Recursion Aug 2013 OP

Took long enough RobertEarl Aug 2013 #1

You are one cool bean. n/t cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #2

What's the evidence? Narkos Aug 2013 #3

On the one hand the 2011 FISC ruling, which Wyden says still has not been fully enforced Recursion Aug 2013 #4

That's good. The NSA Narkos Aug 2013 #5

Well, "abuse" implies an intent finding I'm not in a position to make Recursion Aug 2013 #6

Geez. So, if they did it, it was, as Clapper said, unintentional? Th1onein Aug 2013 #49

I had no doubt you would eventually see it... dkf Aug 2013 #7

That's not the end of the story, though, is it? Th1onein Aug 2013 #8

You mean the stuff he said about the NSA reading your thoughts as you type? Recursion Aug 2013 #9

Let's not veer off into lalaland. You know what I'm talking about. Th1onein Aug 2013 #11

Depends on what you mean by "almost all" Recursion Aug 2013 #12

But you think that storing our data is okay, right? Th1onein Aug 2013 #13

It's for the most part unlawful Recursion Aug 2013 #15

So you believe that they are storing75% of Americans' data, at least for the short term? Th1onein Aug 2013 #16

Actually re-reading WSJ it seems to be 75% of traffic is flagged for potential storage Recursion Aug 2013 #17

Looking is bad. STORING is worse. Much worse. Th1onein Aug 2013 #19

0.025% of all traffic monitored is stored. joshcryer Aug 2013 #22

According to a google search I just did Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #24

I should say they 'only' monitor 1.6% of internet traffic. joshcryer Aug 2013 #27

Still a wildly misleading number for them to be citing. woo me with science Aug 2013 #29

Well, the 75% is "US" traffic. joshcryer Aug 2013 #31

"Clever" woo me with science Aug 2013 #33

If there were a law that simply said JDPriestly Aug 2013 #34

SCOTUS has been consistent for almost 40 years now Recursion Aug 2013 #36

The case law concerns obtaining specific pen registers related to a specific criminal investigation. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #37

You're ignoring how broad the opinion actually is Recursion Aug 2013 #53

So, once again, Recursion, apologies. Th1onein Aug 2013 #50

You're blaming me for applying existing case law to the question? Recursion Aug 2013 #52

HERE WE GO AGAIN with the "Oh, but it's LEGAL arguments." Th1onein Aug 2013 #54

Hear, hear! LearningCurve Aug 2013 #10

Unfortunately, I don't think we're getting it, in this case. Th1onein Aug 2013 #51

Noted. Also would like to say my respect for you has now grown for what it's worth. /nt Dragonfli Aug 2013 #14

KnR, Recursion Hekate Aug 2013 #18

Gee, no shit? Downtown Hound Aug 2013 #20

No, the opinion shows that violations were flagged and corrected. ProSense Aug 2013 #21

Nonetheless, my position *was* "I have not seen evidence of misuse" Recursion Aug 2013 #25

No doubt ProSense Aug 2013 #32

You are arguing with a person who is not having a discussion. Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #59

Right, I didn't see any misuse in the OP either...just that the violations were flagged uponit7771 Aug 2013 #41

PRISM reminds me of Original Released Minority Report. joshcryer Aug 2013 #23

Does that djinn fit back in that bottle? Recursion Aug 2013 #26

Don't think so. joshcryer Aug 2013 #28

+1 I am certain their plan is to present us with some purely decorative "reforms" woo me with science Aug 2013 #30

Of course that's what they have to do, to save the programs, limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #46

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #35

"Other declassified documents illustrate key House and Senate lawmakers were... ProSense Aug 2013 #38

Admirable post, good for you :) steve2470 Aug 2013 #39

But have you learned from your error? woo me with science Aug 2013 #40

+1000 kentuck Aug 2013 #42

Thanks. I keep forgetting woo me with science Aug 2013 #44

Are you trying to bend over backwards to show objectivity? randome Aug 2013 #43

. great white snark Aug 2013 #57

1) Collection is misuse. 2) We saw they were giving it to the DEA limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #45

"Collection is misuse." woo me with science Aug 2013 #48

Thanks for that! hootinholler Aug 2013 #47

Bravo! Pholus Aug 2013 #55

That's like Assange saying Manning's conviction was a significant strategic victory railsback Aug 2013 #56

That is commendable. Jamastiene Aug 2013 #58

Transparency is not going to happen. K&R for your honesty. Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #60