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In reply to the discussion: Dr. Phil treats date rape as a legitimate debate [View all]Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)42. Yeah, it's pretty weak...
1. The tweet perpetuates the idea that rape is blurry.
Sometimes these questions ARE blurry. Even the author of this blog post states suggests that some situations are open to interpretation -- something we can all understand. In any case, this author then goes on to state: "Implicit in Dr. Phils tweet was the suggestion that, you know, maybe it is fine to sleep with an incapacitated person." This is ludicrous. First, he never stated that the victim was incapacitated, and second he never offered an opinion on anything. All of that is in the mind of this author.
2. The question is too simple for the problem.
Undoubtedly. I assume it was left deliberately vague on purpose. Note that his show (apparently he didn't tweet this) did NOT ask whether or not it was okay to have sex with someone passed out from too much booze. They could have, but did not. That, in my mind, is a more interesting question. I would LOVE to know just how many people would actually state that they think this is okay. I suspect they didn't ask that question because the answer would have been overwhelmingly opposed -- and that's not a very good talking point for a program.
3. The question assumes all victims are women.
True. The tweet did not mention men or "non gender conforming" victims. Just women. That's not really a major cause for outrage. As a man who might one day be raped I am willing to overlook it. This time.
4. The tweet focused on offenders rather than survivors.
The question was not directed at offenders, it was directed at the public at large -- offenders, victims, and none of the above. There was no conversation, it was a question.
5. Dr. Phil is concerned with can rather than should.
According to the author of this blog, "Dr. Phils question looks to define what we can get away with in our pursuit of pleasure rather than how we should interact with our partners to make sure were all happy and safe." That is, in my opinion, ridiculous. This QUESTION does not define anything. It wasn't even loaded in such a way as to lead to any conclusion. All of that is in the mind of this author.
But I am beginning to get a clearer picture of the issue and the REAL reason for all the offense.
The problem, it seems to me, is that this program dared even address the topic at all. It's not his place to discuss this or even to ask this question. The answer, according to some, is that of course it's rape. It's ALWAYS rape because this is a rape culture. Even asking this rather simple question is promoting that rape culture. It is, in other words, outrage for the sake of outrage.
And knowing this, it is probably best for me to bow out. I don't have time in my life for invented drama.
Sometimes these questions ARE blurry. Even the author of this blog post states suggests that some situations are open to interpretation -- something we can all understand. In any case, this author then goes on to state: "Implicit in Dr. Phils tweet was the suggestion that, you know, maybe it is fine to sleep with an incapacitated person." This is ludicrous. First, he never stated that the victim was incapacitated, and second he never offered an opinion on anything. All of that is in the mind of this author.
2. The question is too simple for the problem.
Undoubtedly. I assume it was left deliberately vague on purpose. Note that his show (apparently he didn't tweet this) did NOT ask whether or not it was okay to have sex with someone passed out from too much booze. They could have, but did not. That, in my mind, is a more interesting question. I would LOVE to know just how many people would actually state that they think this is okay. I suspect they didn't ask that question because the answer would have been overwhelmingly opposed -- and that's not a very good talking point for a program.
3. The question assumes all victims are women.
True. The tweet did not mention men or "non gender conforming" victims. Just women. That's not really a major cause for outrage. As a man who might one day be raped I am willing to overlook it. This time.
4. The tweet focused on offenders rather than survivors.
The question was not directed at offenders, it was directed at the public at large -- offenders, victims, and none of the above. There was no conversation, it was a question.
5. Dr. Phil is concerned with can rather than should.
According to the author of this blog, "Dr. Phils question looks to define what we can get away with in our pursuit of pleasure rather than how we should interact with our partners to make sure were all happy and safe." That is, in my opinion, ridiculous. This QUESTION does not define anything. It wasn't even loaded in such a way as to lead to any conclusion. All of that is in the mind of this author.
But I am beginning to get a clearer picture of the issue and the REAL reason for all the offense.
The problem, it seems to me, is that this program dared even address the topic at all. It's not his place to discuss this or even to ask this question. The answer, according to some, is that of course it's rape. It's ALWAYS rape because this is a rape culture. Even asking this rather simple question is promoting that rape culture. It is, in other words, outrage for the sake of outrage.
And knowing this, it is probably best for me to bow out. I don't have time in my life for invented drama.
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I'm sure whatever you and your wife do with each other is fine. No one else's business anyhow.
nomorenomore08
Aug 2013
#22
So it's okay with you if your sister can't speak or walk or see straight, and some
bettyellen
Aug 2013
#12
you are the one doing the assuming- but Demo Chris only mentioned lack of consciousness-
bettyellen
Aug 2013
#29
Not really Chris- it's a scenario that occurs quite frequently on college campuses, so I guess
bettyellen
Aug 2013
#30
I was responding to your accusation, perhaps you should reread your post. nt
Demo_Chris
Aug 2013
#31
Well, the only standard you cited as wrong was unconsciousness, so I ASKED you if other -
bettyellen
Aug 2013
#35
... you said it took "imagination" to describe a very common rape scenario- so I said it appeared
bettyellen
Aug 2013
#41
Poorly written on my part, I meant it took imagination to assume I was okay with what you described.
Demo_Chris
Aug 2013
#43
and I only asked a question- but you said I made an accusation. The article linked in the OP made
bettyellen
Aug 2013
#45
Having consentual relations with someone who is intoxicated is not automatically against the law...
Demo_Chris
Aug 2013
#56
I asked it because it wouldn't surprise me if Mr Phil spouted some dumb shit like that..
BlueJazz
Aug 2013
#11
At best it was the wrong question, phrased badly at that. At worst this is outright rape apology. nt
nomorenomore08
Aug 2013
#23
I saw him a few times years ago on Oprah Winfrey's old show. Could not and cannot
MotherPetrie
Aug 2013
#49
Exactly how did "Dr." Phil lose his license? Had something to do with sexual improprieties.
hobbit709
Aug 2013
#64