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Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
39. I would agree that we tend to over-classify.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 01:04 PM
Aug 2013

I think there is a tendency to classify information that is merely sensitive. And where the information is embarrassing, it's even more tempting. A good example is civilian casualties.... there is a genuine conflict there. On the one hand, we SHOULD acknowledge when our guys screw up, or even when one goes rogue and deliberately murders civilians. OTOH, the release of that information improperly handled can result to putting our troops in danger. And couple of green on blue incidents have been traced to such things. It's a tightrope, and for my part, one reason why we severely limit our involvement in such conflicts. The military is best used as a hammer. It can accomplish a lot with sudden violence, especially if your problem looks like a nail. But it is not a screwdriver, a tool of more subtlety. One of the main problems we have is that there is too much of a tendency to look at the military as the tool by which anything can be accomplished. After all, we have the best military in the world by far (we had better, for all we pay for it!) Look at Syria, with John McCain practically begging Obama to get engaged militarily. While I'm shocked at Assad's atrocities there, I admire Obama's resistance to get engaged there militarily.

And on to your point. Our tendency to get mired into every conflict at one level or another (Huge Armies, Spec Ops, or Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) means we have developed a long and deep list enemies.... enemies who understand that to fight us, they have to fight an asymmetrical conflict (read: terrorism). In a world where any terrorist success just HAS to be someone's fault (I'm looking at you, 24 hour news channels), we have become very risk averse. Philosophically, most people would agree that there is some cost and risk to living in a free and open society, but try making that argument after another 9/11 happens. People just won't accept it, having been whipped into a frenzy of paranoia.

I think fighting the rising police state doesn't mean we need more Mannings or Snowdens. Frankly, any outrage they generate will be swept away without a trace in the wake of another spectacular terrorist event. Instead, we must work to undermine the paranoia. Rather than arguing that we don't need such measures to protect ourselves, we need to argue that such events, as spectacular as they are, represent a relatively small risk to us individually, and they are certainly not worth sacrificing every one of our values. We need to emphasize that the President's primary job is NOT to "Keep America Safe," But to protect our liberties.

And oh yeah... we need to restructure our foreign policy to not view every problem as a nail...


Sorry for the Wall of Text.... this is a subject I care deeply about.

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He's wrong. It started a long time ago. Scuba Aug 2013 #1
Agreed. DeSwiss Aug 2013 #22
Yup. nt City Lights Aug 2013 #23
As a candidate in 2008, Barack Obama..... Segami Aug 2013 #2
Shape shifter. dgibby Aug 2013 #3
"Shape shifter" - exactly! polichick Aug 2013 #20
Obama praises instances of whistle-blowing as Segami Aug 2013 #5
seems you don't know the difference between a whistle blower and a common thief nt Cryptoad Aug 2013 #37
Is Ellsberg a Whistle Blower? sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #42
Is the Sky Blue? Cryptoad Aug 2013 #46
Good, now we are getting somewhere. Can you explain why what Ellsberg did is different sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #47
Yes, the sky is blue consisting of many shades of such. Segami Aug 2013 #48
I didn't expect an answer. Not unless Ellsberg gets firmly and permanently thrown under sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #49
That "common thief" got 35 years in prison. More time than those that actually sold information to rhett o rick Aug 2013 #54
Beginning? Javaman Aug 2013 #4
Then Mr Ellsberg has been inattentive. n/t malthaussen Aug 2013 #6
He's been busy with that pole dancer friend of Snowden. n/t L0oniX Aug 2013 #30
Welcome to Weimar America. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #7
It could be done fairly quickly with all the preparations they've made. LuvNewcastle Aug 2013 #12
I heaven05 Aug 2013 #17
Yep, all it will take is another disaster, real or fabricated, to bring the whole police Nay Aug 2013 #29
I will say this.... Adrahil Aug 2013 #8
"put the people trying to deal with them at risk"... no, not really. MNBrewer Aug 2013 #9
Who was put "at risk", and how do you know that? cleanhippie Aug 2013 #13
Of course not Adrahil Aug 2013 #25
Yes, lets avoid extreme positions. cleanhippie Aug 2013 #31
I would agree that we tend to over-classify. Adrahil Aug 2013 #39
We were aghast that Cheney outed a CIA agent, put hail Manning as patriotic. olegramps Aug 2013 #14
I can agree with you. Adrahil Aug 2013 #27
The material released by Manning was determined to have cause not damage. sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #43
Can't have it both ways 4Q2u2 Aug 2013 #52
On June 8th, Obama's Whistleblower-Protection Promise Was Removed from Official Website Segami Aug 2013 #10
And to think I trusted him. dgibby Aug 2013 #33
Wow - I wonder if he has trouble sleeping these days. polichick Aug 2013 #38
I can't even look at him anymore. I'm so pissed. Th1onein Aug 2013 #61
Yep libodem Aug 2013 #11
Look at who Obama appointed to "oversee" the NSA! Aerows Aug 2013 #15
As much as I admire and respect Ellsberg (probably about as much as any other living HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #16
I Gotta Go With RobinA Aug 2013 #34
That 'Department of Homeland Security' does have a post-Jan 30, 1933 ring to it, doesn't it? I think HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #40
Saying ' We are in a police state' felix_numinous Aug 2013 #18
+1000 I agree! Segami Aug 2013 #19
agreed G_j Aug 2013 #21
K&R DeSwiss Aug 2013 #24
I don't think that is what it all means, Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2013 #26
"Who ever he thinks he is?" LuvNewcastle Aug 2013 #51
I don't know who he thinks he is or who he says he isn't. Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2013 #62
Okay, that made absolutely no sense. LuvNewcastle Aug 2013 #63
USA ...United Stasi of America. Is this US Democracy an illusion yet? n/t L0oniX Aug 2013 #28
I know Ellsberg Cryptoad Aug 2013 #32
Any Dickheadishness RobinA Aug 2013 #35
Trust me Cryptoad Aug 2013 #36
Whoosh - that's the sound of Ellsberg being thrown under the bus. Who's next? I vote HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #41
Riiiiight. I smell bullshit. morningfog Aug 2013 #44
If true that you know him, your post reveals more about you than about Ellsberg's character. LiberalAndProud Aug 2013 #50
What a bullshit smear. Octafish Aug 2013 #64
I'm surprised you're still here. DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #66
But I will still be able to drive my Prius to Costco right? Safetykitten Aug 2013 #45
Not the first step; but maybe the first undisguised step. truebluegreen Aug 2013 #53
Big step. They are getting bolder. nm rhett o rick Aug 2013 #55
Yep. truebluegreen Aug 2013 #57
The Authoritarian State of USofA has crossed the Rubicon. They arent turning back. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #56
K&R for Truth Tellers Octafish Aug 2013 #58
A compelling reason a police state is a reality is big brother knows the people are indepat Aug 2013 #59
THIS MUST BE SERIOUS michigandem58 Aug 2013 #60
I guess to people who believe in democracy, yeah, it would be serious. Octafish Aug 2013 #65
I love his MLK avatar, but what do I know...I'd also like to see GW Bush in a Che t-shirt. DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #67
You know who wears Che's Rolex? Octafish Aug 2013 #70
I would love to see a discussion with Ellsberg, Chomsky,... gulliver Aug 2013 #68
So conviction in court martial of a serviceperson treestar Aug 2013 #69
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