General Discussion

Zorra

(27,670 posts)

170. Here are a few sources for you, so you can compare information in order for you to

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:03 PM

Aug 2013

better understand the phenomenon.

There's a lot of bullshit floating around about transsexuals, and being transgender. If you are serious about getting a relatively accurate understanding of this phenomenon, I suggest that you educate yourself by studying as many credible sources on the subject as possible, otherwise, you may very well end up believing total bullshit.

(First link below is pdf)
http://www.cpath.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/COHEN-KETTENIS.DSM_.pdf

http://www.tsfaq.info/

http://www.transsexual.org/

http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexualism

Here are some thoughts:

We do not know what causes autism. Yet the phenomenon clearly exists. Autism is diagnosed by symptoms common to the phenomenon.

We do not know what causes transsexualism. Yet the phenomenon clearly exists. Transsexualism is diagnosed by specific symptoms that are common to the phemomenon.

I'm not saying that transsexualism is some type of pathology, or mental illness. I believe it is a natural condition, just like being gay, or cis hetero.

What I am saying is that the phenomenon exists, and although it is relatively uncommon, it is nevertheless a condition that manifests in millions of people on the planet, and appears to have manifested in populations throughout human history.

The phenomenon of intersex humans also exists. Some human have aneuploidies of sex chromosomes, such as XYY. Some human beings have both male and female variations in sex characteristics including gonads, and/or genitals. Some have all of the above.

Consider the possible that transsexualism is caused by some physical anomaly, possibly in the brain, caused by an uncommon anabolic event when a transsexual is in the womb.

Whatever, it is what it is, and I am quite happy to accept and allow cis/hetero sisters and brothers the space and understanding to be who they are. I just really wish that more of them would do the same for me and my LGBTI family.

Well done, trumad, thank you.

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Highlight:

Calling Bradley Manning a She---Educate me DU. [View all] trumad Aug 2013 OP

I think it's proper to recognize how a person defines their gender, etc. bigtree Aug 2013 #1

heck, forget pronouns, I cannot get anybody to use my NAME hfojvt Aug 2013 #248

So true. laundry_queen Aug 2013 #259

I see it as a respect thing, but I may be paranoid hfojvt Aug 2013 #306

I think it's also generational laundry_queen Aug 2013 #311

I call people whatever they want to be called NightWatcher Aug 2013 #2

Question is--- trumad Aug 2013 #5

at this point, yes. The physique is not the de terming factor in gender identity. KittyWampus Aug 2013 #15

Yes -- the physique would not determine which gender a person identifies with. pnwmom Aug 2013 #262

The question isn't what gender you think Manning is; it's what gender Manning winter is coming Aug 2013 #17

+1000 Lex Aug 2013 #25

This message was self-deleted by its author KittyWampus Aug 2013 #31

Another way to look at it is that Manning isn't flipping her gender; society did when she was born Brickbat Aug 2013 #29

Great post. Thanks for humanizing the issue in such eloquent terms. - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #197

Thank you! Brickbat Aug 2013 #264

Excellent post dbackjon Aug 2013 #231

Thank you. Brickbat Aug 2013 #265

... RedCappedBandit Aug 2013 #240

... Brickbat Aug 2013 #267

Would you consider someone who came out of the closet still heterosexual? nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #35

A bit different don't you think? trumad Aug 2013 #108

Nope. I used to think along lines similar to what you're saying, and it does geek tragedy Aug 2013 #134

That, is a very good way of looking at it IMO! n/t RKP5637 Aug 2013 #143

She isn't "flipping her gender" gollygee Aug 2013 #58

You consider yourself a Trumad. I think you're a Chet. Am I right to insist that you are Chet? Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #78

:):):) eom freeplessinseattle Aug 2013 #111

Trumad, understand the logic here, who knows better, you or the person? CreekDog Aug 2013 #232

When in doubt, and whenever possible, Voice for Peace Aug 2013 #309

The brain (or psyche, or whatever) doesn't match the body. That's the key to gender dysphoria. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #317

I'd like you to call me hfojvt Aug 2013 #251

He was tried and sentenced as Bradley Manning. He certainly has the right to change his name TwilightGardener Aug 2013 #3

Of course the militray context provides easy language outs for those who are unsure or even those Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #56

Fair questions JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #4

Good post. trumad Aug 2013 #8

That's really all it comes down to. TDale313 Aug 2013 #22

Should be a mantra for everyone JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #80

Bingo! :) Little Star Aug 2013 #105

to some folks (not to me) this will prove how twisted and mentally disturbed Manning was made librechik Aug 2013 #175

I'm no expert, so this is how I see it, probably not what is right TransitJohn Aug 2013 #6

Now---if there is a sex change---that changes things, correct? trumad Aug 2013 #9

to me, exactly so. n/t TransitJohn Aug 2013 #11

No. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #83

It doesn't happen overnight mockmonkey Aug 2013 #127

Can I assume that people who are better versed on this subject... Bay Boy Aug 2013 #289

Good Question mockmonkey Aug 2013 #304

Gender is determined in the brain, not the crotch. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #14

+1 MNBrewer Aug 2013 #46

+1, n/t RKP5637 Aug 2013 #158

You are correct - that is wrong. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #64

It is wrong, please have a look at my post #167 for an explanation why. idwiyo Aug 2013 #174

Yeah, I'm in the dark on this one, too. railsback Aug 2013 #7

gender identity is not about plumbing n/t cali Aug 2013 #18

So, it would seem, based on these parameters railsback Aug 2013 #30

Ignorant analogy. nt Lex Aug 2013 #34

I would expect a response like that railsback Aug 2013 #49

You should educate yourself. Lex Aug 2013 #79

I would say the same to you railsback Aug 2013 #94

I already have. You've demonstrated your lack of knowledge Lex Aug 2013 #99

Well then maybe you should explain to the rest of us why you're right. Because what you've Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #132

Maybe you should explain why I'm wrong railsback Aug 2013 #156

If physicality is based on enlightenment Aug 2013 #171

And to add on - Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #189

You have an entire thread full of people trying to do just that so you don't even have to bother Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #204

Ah, you assume I don't like so many assume the NSA is spying on everyone railsback Aug 2013 #223

no, you could not. Gender Dysphoria cali Aug 2013 #36

Yeah, seems like the DU is trapped in another quagmire of illogical thought railsback Aug 2013 #55

well, you are trapped in "illogical thought"- at best cali Aug 2013 #63

Thank you. That was the case I was trying to make .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #110

Did you read the comments? Did you learn anything? maddezmom Aug 2013 #115

Actually, I haven't received the DU mail results of that alert yet .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #159

You won't because it was not hidden but I think the comments are worth reading maddezmom Aug 2013 #161

Normally don't you get an email ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #173

The only time you rec a message on apost that was not hidden is if you were a juror maddezmom Aug 2013 #176

OK, thanks. nt oldhippie Aug 2013 #186

have a look at post #167, please. idwiyo Aug 2013 #180

Ignorant? All of you say its 'mental' railsback Aug 2013 #345

Gender has nothing to do with the body. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #104

I'll tell ya why this response is great. Inkfreak Aug 2013 #321

That's not just apples and oranges, that's apples and... lugnuts or something... nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #319

In other words, its purely a state of mind railsback Aug 2013 #324

By that logic, any other psychiatric disorder is "purely a state of mind." nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #325

What makes a woman a woman, then? railsback Aug 2013 #327

That's a very complicated question. It's a combo of anatomy, hormones, social roles etc. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #328

Which brings me back to this: railsback Aug 2013 #329

They have the choice. But I figure it's common courtesy to call her what she wants to be called. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #330

I have no problem with your reasoning railsback Aug 2013 #332

Honestly, as a heterosexual, cisgender man, this stuff is as alien to my experience as to anyone's. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #333

apples and oranges as it is said, railsback. Cha Aug 2013 #334

I have not had a burning desire to bear children Vanje Aug 2013 #340

Double down on what, exactly? railsback Aug 2013 #344

...... Vanje Aug 2013 #339

Can you define it then? Matariki Aug 2013 #258

Gender Identity is subjective. What else could it be? cali Aug 2013 #268

I looked up the definition of the word 'gender' Matariki Aug 2013 #275

Please have a look at the post #167 for an explanation. idwiyo Aug 2013 #179

I sincerely don't know Xyzse Aug 2013 #10

Wait and see what? Lex Aug 2013 #28

What others call Manning Xyzse Aug 2013 #32

Me too ...... oldhippie Aug 2013 #37

I placed more of my reasoning in my edit Xyzse Aug 2013 #42

Why would you not simpy ask your friend what forms of address they'd like used? Too much? Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #88

Because she hasn't told me yet Xyzse Aug 2013 #101

I did not ask 'why don't you presume' I asked why you do not inquire as to their wishes. Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #147

Well, it hasn't gotten to that point yet Xyzse Aug 2013 #155

It is disrepectful both to Manning Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #50

Thanks Xyzse Aug 2013 #76

Talking about the past is more complex Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #90

Understood Xyzse Aug 2013 #106

Most trans* people (or spouses of trans* people) Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #112

Once that comes up in the conversation I would ask Xyzse Aug 2013 #118

If you are interested to know please have a look at the article in post #167 idwiyo Aug 2013 #181

Thanks Xyzse Aug 2013 #194

I beleive it's a right thing to do because of what Chelsea asked us to do. The article simply idwiyo Aug 2013 #200

Well, it is more in regards to respect for me. Xyzse Aug 2013 #205

NP, I am definitely cool with that and just like you I will treat Ms Chelsea Manning as a female idwiyo Aug 2013 #212

The only person with the right to determine Chelsea Manning's gender identity is Chelsea herself. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #12

The fact that this has turned into such a big issue alan_phillips Aug 2013 #13

I have always used He until the person themselves said it was ok to say She or visa versa. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #16

Simple way to look at this NuclearDem Aug 2013 #19

Exactly. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #24

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #20

Please use the pronouns Chelsea has requested. n/t Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #23

Would you hate Manning as much? The Link Aug 2013 #26

I don't hate him. But he is guilty. He even apologized. MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #33

It is not sexuality. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #44

Total confusion here, isn't it? MNBrewer Aug 2013 #52

Why is LGBT one term? Quit splitting hairs. MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #59

LGBT is not "one term" . . . markpkessinger Aug 2013 #150

Haven't they also added a Q LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #312

Sexuality is related to the third. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #72

Ms. Toad, I am bookmarking this thread just so I can DevonRex Aug 2013 #307

Thank you. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #310

HER gender identity is not the same as HER sexuality. I have no idea what Chelsea's orientation Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #95

She's guilty. She apologized. She might not have committed the crimes, IMO, DevonRex Aug 2013 #241

We're finally rid of that troll LittleBlue Aug 2013 #238

After I just spent all that time DevonRex Aug 2013 #244

Finally! idwiyo Aug 2013 #245

That is a point I noticed treestar Aug 2013 #40

We should also beware of making Manning into a celebrity. randome Aug 2013 #48

I can see where the celebrity is getting the issue talked about treestar Aug 2013 #107

Of course and as you both know, the gender issues were used as part of the defense in the trial Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #114

Advice of councel? One_Life_To_Give Aug 2013 #113

How trans* individuals refer to themselves in the past Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #21

I always try to match pronouns to what the person identifies as Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #27

DU might not be the place to be educated. earthside Aug 2013 #38

because it is definitive. She identifies as female and has asked to be referred to as such. cali Aug 2013 #57

what about in a medical setting? Niceguy1 Aug 2013 #323

And there was a whole range of scientific, medical, and political opinions Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #96

Would you accept an explanation from World Health Organisation? idwiyo Aug 2013 #193

My trans friends would argue your point and they'd be correct justiceischeap Aug 2013 #210

My question: why do we have to use pronouns? Myrina Aug 2013 #39

How does it work? gollygee Aug 2013 #41

I agree with that. trumad Aug 2013 #116

My daughters and I had a previous discussion about this. randome Aug 2013 #43

How about "it"? oldhippie Aug 2013 #45

disgusting and hateful remark. cali Aug 2013 #47

Do we always have to refer to people as they wish? oldhippie Aug 2013 #62

That's about credentials, not identity. Sorry, you're so unable to discern the difference cali Aug 2013 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author trumad Aug 2013 #119

You just jump right in there in the crazy pond, don't you? Safetykitten Aug 2013 #69

When it comes to an aspect of ourselves...yeah! LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #313

She isn't gender neutral. gollygee Aug 2013 #51

Stay classy. Don't ever change. I will call you "ClassyHippy" from now on. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #53

Oh, dont be so hard on oldhippie... bunnies Aug 2013 #120

I guess it is indicative of my state of mind ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #168

Heres the thing. bunnies Aug 2013 #188

Never it, that is dehumanizing maddezmom Aug 2013 #54

But you see, that's where the REAL people work and play... Safetykitten Aug 2013 #98

I just served on this jury.Hopefully it comes back 6-0 sufrommich Aug 2013 #61

Which just goes to prove, .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #66

people are discussing it and trying to explain cali Aug 2013 #70

That discussion includes calling a person an "it"? That crazy pond down there with Classy guy, go... Safetykitten Aug 2013 #75

Just to follow up ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #157

MMMMmmm. I think you got your answer. Vanje Aug 2013 #341

You are suggesting we call a human being an "it". sufrommich Aug 2013 #71

Ugh. the jury voted 3-3 to leave it. cali Aug 2013 #73

Agree,very,very disappointing. sufrommich Aug 2013 #81

Here are two, from a different jury Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #162

Charming. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #226

Not suprising in the least. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #82

I re-alerted and checked TOS. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #103

It's the same sort of shit SouthernYankeeBelle got away with for years... WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #160

How do we rationalize using "they" .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #74

It's ungrammaticial but doesn't have the depersonalization problems of using "it". winter is coming Aug 2013 #86

There are a lot of English majors who are fine with violating this grammar rule. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #97

It's still wrong Lex Aug 2013 #184

Languages evolve. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #187

That rule hasn't evolved. Lex Aug 2013 #191

Why not? Language evolves through use. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #195

I'd much rather violate a grammar rule gollygee Aug 2013 #234

That's grammatically incorrect Lex Aug 2013 #87

I imagine if the discussion is perceived as sincere, there would be little problems LanternWaste Aug 2013 #239

The comments were interesting. LiberalAndProud Aug 2013 #84

Well hope they learned something here....however I doubt it. maddezmom Aug 2013 #92

No, and your reasoning about inanimate objects should be enough. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #65

I had a post hidden responding to this kind of disgusting shit last night. The Link Aug 2013 #67

jury voted to leave it. 3-3 cali Aug 2013 #77

If ever there was proof that the jury system was broken... TDale313 Aug 2013 #117

It was never broken. Shit happens. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #122

Absolutely not. That's dehumanizing and vile. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #91

OK, I give up ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #121

Ya know...you had me till that last sentence....almost! Safetykitten Aug 2013 #131

"it was meant for a discussion starter"...and they have that discussion all over the planet just for Safetykitten Aug 2013 #141

Ze would be better One_Life_To_Give Aug 2013 #128

Look, I understand that you enlightenment Aug 2013 #185

Jesus Christ - calling a human being "it" ??? cyberswede Aug 2013 #199

Are you freaking serious? great white snark Aug 2013 #290

"They" is becoming a popular pronoun for gender queer individuals. Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #315

A rose, is a rose, is a rose nt clarice Aug 2013 #60

how ironic that you're quoting Stein. cali Aug 2013 #89

But they are not really managing to quote Stein, she used no commas Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #142

I stand corrected. nt clarice Aug 2013 #146

Glad you caught that. 10 bonus points. nt clarice Aug 2013 #148

A very successful thread, trumad ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #85

What the fuck? trumad Aug 2013 #124

I will raise that what the fuck with a what fuckery is this? Safetykitten Aug 2013 #133

You're right, and I am sorry .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #140

NP trumad Aug 2013 #165

GLAAD has a great resource that answers many questions about transgender people: coffeenap Aug 2013 #93

Wow, this is beyond words. SMH stevenleser Aug 2013 #100

Because of what I wrote? trumad Aug 2013 #126

I guess I have trouble believing that people on this site don't know better. stevenleser Aug 2013 #166

You have trouble believing that education on such a matter is necessary? trumad Aug 2013 #178

I did. I had some questions answered by reading this very thread. Inkfreak Aug 2013 #322

I'm having problems particularly with this part of what you wrote... Emit Aug 2013 #220

At first that is how I read it mockmonkey Aug 2013 #237

Really? trumad Aug 2013 #250

Trumad, I see now that I misread your post. Emit Aug 2013 #284

no problem trumad Aug 2013 #287

I think you misinterpreted that. noamnety Aug 2013 #256

Yes, thank you, I see that now. n/t Emit Aug 2013 #285

I almost commented on that myself Revanchist Aug 2013 #277

Yes, I understand now. Tx. n/t Emit Aug 2013 #286

The process of a sex change DonCoquixote Aug 2013 #102

There's probably no 'educating' you leftstreet Aug 2013 #109

Try reading that again--- trumad Aug 2013 #129

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #136

So---let me get this straight trumad Aug 2013 #172

Your OP is fail leftstreet Aug 2013 #183

In about 2 hours the OP has 200 replies trumad Aug 2013 #198

I used to say Attention Whore, but I don't now leftstreet Aug 2013 #201

I use to say Douchebag---and I still do. trumad Aug 2013 #206

'used' to say leftstreet Aug 2013 #211

wow...is that all you got? trumad Aug 2013 #215

I'm sooo confused by the hostility some people have.... penultimate Aug 2013 #260

forum behavior trumad Aug 2013 #266

This message was self-deleted by its author itsrobert Aug 2013 #123

False. Until she has surgery, she is still *physically* male. winter is coming Aug 2013 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author itsrobert Aug 2013 #137

yes, disrespect. She identifies as female. she wants her body to reflect her identity. cali Aug 2013 #139

Manning's gender identity is female, her body is male. winter is coming Aug 2013 #144

This message was self-deleted by its author itsrobert Aug 2013 #149

Referring to Chelsea as "him" isn't respectful. winter is coming Aug 2013 #154

Based on what joeglow3 Aug 2013 #298

If it followed the X and Y chromosomes, we wouldn't have gender dysphoria. winter is coming Aug 2013 #299

The Scientist in you? LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #314

Yes, it does. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #218

What is the purpose of this post? To prove how bigoted you are against transgender people? nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #269

This message was self-deleted by its author itsrobert Aug 2013 #273

It's bigoted because noamnety Aug 2013 #276

Exactly itsrobert Aug 2013 #278

In this case, you are openly presenting yourself as a bigot noamnety Aug 2013 #291

Your bigotry is noted. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #145

Jesus is dead itsrobert Aug 2013 #152

Great graphic, although I fear it has gone right over itsrobert's head. - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #190

Please link to a request for surgery. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #151

Does the body rule the mind or does the mind rule the body? gollygee Aug 2013 #163

Its sunday afternoon Vanje Aug 2013 #342

This post will always represent a fine example of transphobic bigotry. Nothing will change that. idwiyo Aug 2013 #227

I have alerted. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #263

I gave up on alerting. I just don't see the point anymore. Please, post the decision here idwiyo Aug 2013 #297

I'm not human, i want to known as GOD now. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #125

the ignorance in your post is par for the course in this thread cali Aug 2013 #135

psssst...it was a joke, I actually like being human. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #279

God, you're an ass. JBoy Aug 2013 #138

Well done, JBoy. bunnies Aug 2013 #169

now THAT was funny ! I knew SOMEBODY would get it. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #280

This is the same nasty false equivalence that right wingers sufrommich Aug 2013 #153

yikes ! I made a bad joke, and you segway into marriage with animals ? NM_Birder Aug 2013 #283

You may have a big problem with that until you can express a coherent thought. nt Zorra Aug 2013 #177

uh...you mean I can't really be a GOD ?...bummer my bad typing skills quash another dream. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #281

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NuclearDem Aug 2013 #216

meh, you're right maybe not funny, but good for a chuckle. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #282

No. Vanje Aug 2013 #343

I have been a patient advocate to a transgender nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #164

Please, have a look at the article below, it will explain a lot to you. idwiyo Aug 2013 #167

Here are a few sources for you, so you can compare information in order for you to Zorra Aug 2013 #170

You've discovered that people who ask the question are automatically attacked. Orsino Aug 2013 #182

I am not going to attack you. If you are interested to know more, please have a look at the article idwiyo Aug 2013 #196

That answers the OP's question, but not mine. Orsino Aug 2013 #203

It explains a genetic component, the very base of identity. it also explains why secondary sexual idwiyo Aug 2013 #209

Sorry, but I don't believe it on your say-so. Orsino Aug 2013 #214

I am not 'testifying' for anyone. I provided a basic scientific explanation from a respected idwiyo Aug 2013 #217

I don't know when Manning's journey began, and neither do you. Orsino Aug 2013 #219

When did yours start? idwiyo Aug 2013 #225

I don't know. Orsino Aug 2013 #228

According to your previous posts there must be a moment in your life when you 'knew' what your idwiyo Aug 2013 #235

Reread #217 n/t Orsino Aug 2013 #236

I don't need to re-read my own post. Is it safe to assume you actually understand how rude idwiyo Aug 2013 #242

It's not rude to speculate about the come and go of human sexuality and gender. Orsino Aug 2013 #335

Chelsea Manning asked everyone to address her as female. THAT is all that matters. idwiyo Aug 2013 #338

Clearly, that is all that matters to some people. Orsino Aug 2013 #346

Gender is not only biological. You refer to someone by the gender they identify with. Hosnon Aug 2013 #192

Actually, I'd argue that gender isn't biological at all. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #230

I think people are confusing mental with the brain... Humanist_Activist Aug 2013 #326

You don't call Bradley Manning a she. KamaAina Aug 2013 #202

Yes, it's confusing and even scary. Orsino Aug 2013 #207

We all start out as Newest Reality Aug 2013 #208

Just a Tien1985 Aug 2013 #301

It will likely be determined by the military courts markiv Aug 2013 #213

Educate yourself. eilen Aug 2013 #221

Calling me Angelina Jolie doesn't make me a woman (I'm a male....) lastlib Aug 2013 #222

Sex and gender are not the same thing. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #229

Angelina, this is Brad...are you not telling me something? Safetykitten Aug 2013 #233

what is it with this willful ignorance cali Aug 2013 #243

Not knowing is one thing. Or hell, even not *wanting* to know. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #331

Have a look at the article below please. I am interested in your opinion. idwiyo Aug 2013 #253

Explain to me LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #316

we are the gender we say we are. we may have a sex that doesn't match our gender La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2013 #224

Some of the responses to this thread... SMH... RedCappedBandit Aug 2013 #246

don't a few bad comments ruin the discussion. trumad Aug 2013 #249

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #247

Gender is mental, and gender is not the same as sex. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #254

Advice for not sounding like a bigot: noamnety Aug 2013 #270

The person who downloaded the data and gave it to Wiki is a MAN named Bradley Manning BlueStreak Aug 2013 #252

Chelsea was formerly known a Bradley Manning. Chelsea is still a pfc Manning. She specifically idwiyo Aug 2013 #300

If I ever meet this person, I will address her with any name he/she prefers BlueStreak Aug 2013 #303

Trumad, you are someone I love to read in the sports forum - TBF Aug 2013 #255

maybe I used that term loosely. .."educate" trumad Aug 2013 #271

Well I hope some of the answers have helped - TBF Aug 2013 #293

Thank you for asking this question Matariki Aug 2013 #257

Trumad...as I visit prisioners, I am sometimes confronted with this issue. msanthrope Aug 2013 #261

Great answer Msanthrope Matariki Aug 2013 #272

Thank you. I am no fan of Manning, but basic respect for her dignity indicates that we msanthrope Aug 2013 #274

Your post restores my hope Union Scribe Aug 2013 #294

Great post. nt TBF Aug 2013 #295

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #288

How simple-minded. nt Lex Aug 2013 #292

Excuse me? TBF Aug 2013 #296

I keep thinking of that Twain quote, about being better to appear a fool, than to open one's mouth nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #320

Might've helped if he'd not used a play on words dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #302

I can't wait for the day when he and she aren't used as pronouns but pe is used instead. valerief Aug 2013 #305

admirable of you to ask for education, Trumad steve2470 Aug 2013 #308

Hiya maybe this graphic can help LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #318

very good chart marions ghost Aug 2013 #336

If the individual makes crystal clear in public that "he" wishes to be a "she" marions ghost Aug 2013 #337