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idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
209. It explains a genetic component, the very base of identity. it also explains why secondary sexual
Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:59 PM
Aug 2013

characteristics have nothing to do with what one really is. That's why 'anatomically male/female' is nonsense concept.

Gender reassignment therapy will correct secondary characteristics, nothing else. It will make Chelsea look like a culturally accepted stereotype of what female should look like, but it will not make 'more' female than she already is. She is a female, with or without the therapy.

That's why Chelsea's gender was already determined when she stated that she is a woman and asked everyone to address her as a female.

Don't take it wrong, it is extremely important that Chelsea has access to all the medical procedures she needs, both hormonal and surgery. It's a basic right and a very important step for lots of transgender women.





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I think it's proper to recognize how a person defines their gender, etc. bigtree Aug 2013 #1
heck, forget pronouns, I cannot get anybody to use my NAME hfojvt Aug 2013 #248
So true. laundry_queen Aug 2013 #259
I see it as a respect thing, but I may be paranoid hfojvt Aug 2013 #306
I think it's also generational laundry_queen Aug 2013 #311
I call people whatever they want to be called NightWatcher Aug 2013 #2
Question is--- trumad Aug 2013 #5
at this point, yes. The physique is not the de terming factor in gender identity. KittyWampus Aug 2013 #15
Yes -- the physique would not determine which gender a person identifies with. pnwmom Aug 2013 #262
The question isn't what gender you think Manning is; it's what gender Manning winter is coming Aug 2013 #17
+1000 Lex Aug 2013 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author KittyWampus Aug 2013 #31
Another way to look at it is that Manning isn't flipping her gender; society did when she was born Brickbat Aug 2013 #29
Great post. Thanks for humanizing the issue in such eloquent terms. - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #197
Thank you! Brickbat Aug 2013 #264
Excellent post dbackjon Aug 2013 #231
Thank you. Brickbat Aug 2013 #265
... RedCappedBandit Aug 2013 #240
... Brickbat Aug 2013 #267
Would you consider someone who came out of the closet still heterosexual? nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #35
A bit different don't you think? trumad Aug 2013 #108
Nope. I used to think along lines similar to what you're saying, and it does geek tragedy Aug 2013 #134
That, is a very good way of looking at it IMO! n/t RKP5637 Aug 2013 #143
She isn't "flipping her gender" gollygee Aug 2013 #58
You consider yourself a Trumad. I think you're a Chet. Am I right to insist that you are Chet? Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #78
:):):) eom freeplessinseattle Aug 2013 #111
Trumad, understand the logic here, who knows better, you or the person? CreekDog Aug 2013 #232
When in doubt, and whenever possible, Voice for Peace Aug 2013 #309
The brain (or psyche, or whatever) doesn't match the body. That's the key to gender dysphoria. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #317
I'd like you to call me hfojvt Aug 2013 #251
He was tried and sentenced as Bradley Manning. He certainly has the right to change his name TwilightGardener Aug 2013 #3
Of course the militray context provides easy language outs for those who are unsure or even those Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #56
Fair questions JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #4
Good post. trumad Aug 2013 #8
That's really all it comes down to. TDale313 Aug 2013 #22
Should be a mantra for everyone JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #80
Bingo! :) Little Star Aug 2013 #105
to some folks (not to me) this will prove how twisted and mentally disturbed Manning was made librechik Aug 2013 #175
I'm no expert, so this is how I see it, probably not what is right TransitJohn Aug 2013 #6
Now---if there is a sex change---that changes things, correct? trumad Aug 2013 #9
to me, exactly so. n/t TransitJohn Aug 2013 #11
No. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #83
It doesn't happen overnight mockmonkey Aug 2013 #127
Can I assume that people who are better versed on this subject... Bay Boy Aug 2013 #289
Good Question mockmonkey Aug 2013 #304
Gender is determined in the brain, not the crotch. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #14
+1 MNBrewer Aug 2013 #46
+1, n/t RKP5637 Aug 2013 #158
You are correct - that is wrong. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #64
It is wrong, please have a look at my post #167 for an explanation why. idwiyo Aug 2013 #174
Yeah, I'm in the dark on this one, too. railsback Aug 2013 #7
gender identity is not about plumbing n/t cali Aug 2013 #18
So, it would seem, based on these parameters railsback Aug 2013 #30
Ignorant analogy. nt Lex Aug 2013 #34
I would expect a response like that railsback Aug 2013 #49
You should educate yourself. Lex Aug 2013 #79
I would say the same to you railsback Aug 2013 #94
I already have. You've demonstrated your lack of knowledge Lex Aug 2013 #99
Well then maybe you should explain to the rest of us why you're right. Because what you've Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #132
Maybe you should explain why I'm wrong railsback Aug 2013 #156
If physicality is based on enlightenment Aug 2013 #171
And to add on - Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #189
You have an entire thread full of people trying to do just that so you don't even have to bother Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #204
Ah, you assume I don't like so many assume the NSA is spying on everyone railsback Aug 2013 #223
no, you could not. Gender Dysphoria cali Aug 2013 #36
Yeah, seems like the DU is trapped in another quagmire of illogical thought railsback Aug 2013 #55
well, you are trapped in "illogical thought"- at best cali Aug 2013 #63
Thank you. That was the case I was trying to make .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #110
Did you read the comments? Did you learn anything? maddezmom Aug 2013 #115
Actually, I haven't received the DU mail results of that alert yet .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #159
You won't because it was not hidden but I think the comments are worth reading maddezmom Aug 2013 #161
Normally don't you get an email ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #173
The only time you rec a message on apost that was not hidden is if you were a juror maddezmom Aug 2013 #176
OK, thanks. nt oldhippie Aug 2013 #186
have a look at post #167, please. idwiyo Aug 2013 #180
Ignorant? All of you say its 'mental' railsback Aug 2013 #345
Gender has nothing to do with the body. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #104
I'll tell ya why this response is great. Inkfreak Aug 2013 #321
That's not just apples and oranges, that's apples and... lugnuts or something... nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #319
In other words, its purely a state of mind railsback Aug 2013 #324
By that logic, any other psychiatric disorder is "purely a state of mind." nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #325
What makes a woman a woman, then? railsback Aug 2013 #327
That's a very complicated question. It's a combo of anatomy, hormones, social roles etc. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #328
Which brings me back to this: railsback Aug 2013 #329
They have the choice. But I figure it's common courtesy to call her what she wants to be called. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #330
I have no problem with your reasoning railsback Aug 2013 #332
Honestly, as a heterosexual, cisgender man, this stuff is as alien to my experience as to anyone's. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #333
apples and oranges as it is said, railsback. Cha Aug 2013 #334
I have not had a burning desire to bear children Vanje Aug 2013 #340
Double down on what, exactly? railsback Aug 2013 #344
...... Vanje Aug 2013 #339
Can you define it then? Matariki Aug 2013 #258
Gender Identity is subjective. What else could it be? cali Aug 2013 #268
I looked up the definition of the word 'gender' Matariki Aug 2013 #275
Please have a look at the post #167 for an explanation. idwiyo Aug 2013 #179
I sincerely don't know Xyzse Aug 2013 #10
Wait and see what? Lex Aug 2013 #28
What others call Manning Xyzse Aug 2013 #32
Me too ...... oldhippie Aug 2013 #37
I placed more of my reasoning in my edit Xyzse Aug 2013 #42
Why would you not simpy ask your friend what forms of address they'd like used? Too much? Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #88
Because she hasn't told me yet Xyzse Aug 2013 #101
I did not ask 'why don't you presume' I asked why you do not inquire as to their wishes. Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #147
Well, it hasn't gotten to that point yet Xyzse Aug 2013 #155
It is disrepectful both to Manning Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #50
Thanks Xyzse Aug 2013 #76
Talking about the past is more complex Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #90
Understood Xyzse Aug 2013 #106
Most trans* people (or spouses of trans* people) Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #112
Once that comes up in the conversation I would ask Xyzse Aug 2013 #118
If you are interested to know please have a look at the article in post #167 idwiyo Aug 2013 #181
Thanks Xyzse Aug 2013 #194
I beleive it's a right thing to do because of what Chelsea asked us to do. The article simply idwiyo Aug 2013 #200
Well, it is more in regards to respect for me. Xyzse Aug 2013 #205
NP, I am definitely cool with that and just like you I will treat Ms Chelsea Manning as a female idwiyo Aug 2013 #212
The only person with the right to determine Chelsea Manning's gender identity is Chelsea herself. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #12
The fact that this has turned into such a big issue alan_phillips Aug 2013 #13
I have always used He until the person themselves said it was ok to say She or visa versa. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #16
Simple way to look at this NuclearDem Aug 2013 #19
Exactly. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #24
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #20
Please use the pronouns Chelsea has requested. n/t Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #23
Would you hate Manning as much? The Link Aug 2013 #26
I don't hate him. But he is guilty. He even apologized. MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #33
It is not sexuality. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #44
Total confusion here, isn't it? MNBrewer Aug 2013 #52
Why is LGBT one term? Quit splitting hairs. MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #59
LGBT is not "one term" . . . markpkessinger Aug 2013 #150
Haven't they also added a Q LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #312
Sexuality is related to the third. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #72
Ms. Toad, I am bookmarking this thread just so I can DevonRex Aug 2013 #307
Thank you. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #310
HER gender identity is not the same as HER sexuality. I have no idea what Chelsea's orientation Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #95
She's guilty. She apologized. She might not have committed the crimes, IMO, DevonRex Aug 2013 #241
We're finally rid of that troll LittleBlue Aug 2013 #238
After I just spent all that time DevonRex Aug 2013 #244
Finally! idwiyo Aug 2013 #245
That is a point I noticed treestar Aug 2013 #40
We should also beware of making Manning into a celebrity. randome Aug 2013 #48
I can see where the celebrity is getting the issue talked about treestar Aug 2013 #107
Of course and as you both know, the gender issues were used as part of the defense in the trial Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #114
Advice of councel? One_Life_To_Give Aug 2013 #113
How trans* individuals refer to themselves in the past Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #21
I always try to match pronouns to what the person identifies as Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #27
DU might not be the place to be educated. earthside Aug 2013 #38
because it is definitive. She identifies as female and has asked to be referred to as such. cali Aug 2013 #57
what about in a medical setting? Niceguy1 Aug 2013 #323
And there was a whole range of scientific, medical, and political opinions Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #96
Would you accept an explanation from World Health Organisation? idwiyo Aug 2013 #193
My trans friends would argue your point and they'd be correct justiceischeap Aug 2013 #210
My question: why do we have to use pronouns? Myrina Aug 2013 #39
How does it work? gollygee Aug 2013 #41
I agree with that. trumad Aug 2013 #116
My daughters and I had a previous discussion about this. randome Aug 2013 #43
How about "it"? oldhippie Aug 2013 #45
disgusting and hateful remark. cali Aug 2013 #47
Do we always have to refer to people as they wish? oldhippie Aug 2013 #62
That's about credentials, not identity. Sorry, you're so unable to discern the difference cali Aug 2013 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author trumad Aug 2013 #119
You just jump right in there in the crazy pond, don't you? Safetykitten Aug 2013 #69
When it comes to an aspect of ourselves...yeah! LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #313
She isn't gender neutral. gollygee Aug 2013 #51
Stay classy. Don't ever change. I will call you "ClassyHippy" from now on. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #53
Oh, dont be so hard on oldhippie... bunnies Aug 2013 #120
I guess it is indicative of my state of mind ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #168
Heres the thing. bunnies Aug 2013 #188
Never it, that is dehumanizing maddezmom Aug 2013 #54
But you see, that's where the REAL people work and play... Safetykitten Aug 2013 #98
I just served on this jury.Hopefully it comes back 6-0 sufrommich Aug 2013 #61
Which just goes to prove, .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #66
people are discussing it and trying to explain cali Aug 2013 #70
That discussion includes calling a person an "it"? That crazy pond down there with Classy guy, go... Safetykitten Aug 2013 #75
Just to follow up ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #157
MMMMmmm. I think you got your answer. Vanje Aug 2013 #341
You are suggesting we call a human being an "it". sufrommich Aug 2013 #71
Ugh. the jury voted 3-3 to leave it. cali Aug 2013 #73
Agree,very,very disappointing. sufrommich Aug 2013 #81
Here are two, from a different jury Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #162
Charming. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #226
Not suprising in the least. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #82
I re-alerted and checked TOS. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #103
It's the same sort of shit SouthernYankeeBelle got away with for years... WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #160
How do we rationalize using "they" .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #74
It's ungrammaticial but doesn't have the depersonalization problems of using "it". winter is coming Aug 2013 #86
There are a lot of English majors who are fine with violating this grammar rule. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #97
It's still wrong Lex Aug 2013 #184
Languages evolve. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #187
That rule hasn't evolved. Lex Aug 2013 #191
Why not? Language evolves through use. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #195
I'd much rather violate a grammar rule gollygee Aug 2013 #234
That's grammatically incorrect Lex Aug 2013 #87
I imagine if the discussion is perceived as sincere, there would be little problems LanternWaste Aug 2013 #239
The comments were interesting. LiberalAndProud Aug 2013 #84
Well hope they learned something here....however I doubt it. maddezmom Aug 2013 #92
No, and your reasoning about inanimate objects should be enough. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #65
I had a post hidden responding to this kind of disgusting shit last night. The Link Aug 2013 #67
jury voted to leave it. 3-3 cali Aug 2013 #77
If ever there was proof that the jury system was broken... TDale313 Aug 2013 #117
It was never broken. Shit happens. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #122
Absolutely not. That's dehumanizing and vile. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #91
OK, I give up ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #121
Ya know...you had me till that last sentence....almost! Safetykitten Aug 2013 #131
"it was meant for a discussion starter"...and they have that discussion all over the planet just for Safetykitten Aug 2013 #141
Ze would be better One_Life_To_Give Aug 2013 #128
Look, I understand that you enlightenment Aug 2013 #185
Jesus Christ - calling a human being "it" ??? cyberswede Aug 2013 #199
Are you freaking serious? great white snark Aug 2013 #290
"They" is becoming a popular pronoun for gender queer individuals. Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #315
A rose, is a rose, is a rose nt clarice Aug 2013 #60
how ironic that you're quoting Stein. cali Aug 2013 #89
But they are not really managing to quote Stein, she used no commas Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #142
I stand corrected. nt clarice Aug 2013 #146
Glad you caught that. 10 bonus points. nt clarice Aug 2013 #148
A very successful thread, trumad ..... oldhippie Aug 2013 #85
What the fuck? trumad Aug 2013 #124
I will raise that what the fuck with a what fuckery is this? Safetykitten Aug 2013 #133
You're right, and I am sorry .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #140
NP trumad Aug 2013 #165
GLAAD has a great resource that answers many questions about transgender people: coffeenap Aug 2013 #93
Wow, this is beyond words. SMH stevenleser Aug 2013 #100
Because of what I wrote? trumad Aug 2013 #126
I guess I have trouble believing that people on this site don't know better. stevenleser Aug 2013 #166
You have trouble believing that education on such a matter is necessary? trumad Aug 2013 #178
I did. I had some questions answered by reading this very thread. Inkfreak Aug 2013 #322
I'm having problems particularly with this part of what you wrote... Emit Aug 2013 #220
At first that is how I read it mockmonkey Aug 2013 #237
Really? trumad Aug 2013 #250
Trumad, I see now that I misread your post. Emit Aug 2013 #284
no problem trumad Aug 2013 #287
I think you misinterpreted that. noamnety Aug 2013 #256
Yes, thank you, I see that now. n/t Emit Aug 2013 #285
I almost commented on that myself Revanchist Aug 2013 #277
Yes, I understand now. Tx. n/t Emit Aug 2013 #286
The process of a sex change DonCoquixote Aug 2013 #102
There's probably no 'educating' you leftstreet Aug 2013 #109
Try reading that again--- trumad Aug 2013 #129
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #136
So---let me get this straight trumad Aug 2013 #172
Your OP is fail leftstreet Aug 2013 #183
In about 2 hours the OP has 200 replies trumad Aug 2013 #198
I used to say Attention Whore, but I don't now leftstreet Aug 2013 #201
I use to say Douchebag---and I still do. trumad Aug 2013 #206
'used' to say leftstreet Aug 2013 #211
wow...is that all you got? trumad Aug 2013 #215
I'm sooo confused by the hostility some people have.... penultimate Aug 2013 #260
forum behavior trumad Aug 2013 #266
This message was self-deleted by its author itsrobert Aug 2013 #123
False. Until she has surgery, she is still *physically* male. winter is coming Aug 2013 #130
This message was self-deleted by its author itsrobert Aug 2013 #137
yes, disrespect. She identifies as female. she wants her body to reflect her identity. cali Aug 2013 #139
Manning's gender identity is female, her body is male. winter is coming Aug 2013 #144
This message was self-deleted by its author itsrobert Aug 2013 #149
Referring to Chelsea as "him" isn't respectful. winter is coming Aug 2013 #154
Based on what joeglow3 Aug 2013 #298
If it followed the X and Y chromosomes, we wouldn't have gender dysphoria. winter is coming Aug 2013 #299
The Scientist in you? LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #314
Yes, it does. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #218
What is the purpose of this post? To prove how bigoted you are against transgender people? nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #269
This message was self-deleted by its author itsrobert Aug 2013 #273
It's bigoted because noamnety Aug 2013 #276
Exactly itsrobert Aug 2013 #278
In this case, you are openly presenting yourself as a bigot noamnety Aug 2013 #291
Your bigotry is noted. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #145
Jesus is dead itsrobert Aug 2013 #152
Great graphic, although I fear it has gone right over itsrobert's head. - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #190
Please link to a request for surgery. Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #151
Does the body rule the mind or does the mind rule the body? gollygee Aug 2013 #163
Its sunday afternoon Vanje Aug 2013 #342
This post will always represent a fine example of transphobic bigotry. Nothing will change that. idwiyo Aug 2013 #227
I have alerted. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #263
I gave up on alerting. I just don't see the point anymore. Please, post the decision here idwiyo Aug 2013 #297
I'm not human, i want to known as GOD now. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #125
the ignorance in your post is par for the course in this thread cali Aug 2013 #135
psssst...it was a joke, I actually like being human. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #279
God, you're an ass. JBoy Aug 2013 #138
Well done, JBoy. bunnies Aug 2013 #169
now THAT was funny ! I knew SOMEBODY would get it. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #280
This is the same nasty false equivalence that right wingers sufrommich Aug 2013 #153
yikes ! I made a bad joke, and you segway into marriage with animals ? NM_Birder Aug 2013 #283
You may have a big problem with that until you can express a coherent thought. nt Zorra Aug 2013 #177
uh...you mean I can't really be a GOD ?...bummer my bad typing skills quash another dream. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #281
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NuclearDem Aug 2013 #216
meh, you're right maybe not funny, but good for a chuckle. NM_Birder Aug 2013 #282
No. Vanje Aug 2013 #343
I have been a patient advocate to a transgender nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #164
Please, have a look at the article below, it will explain a lot to you. idwiyo Aug 2013 #167
Here are a few sources for you, so you can compare information in order for you to Zorra Aug 2013 #170
You've discovered that people who ask the question are automatically attacked. Orsino Aug 2013 #182
I am not going to attack you. If you are interested to know more, please have a look at the article idwiyo Aug 2013 #196
That answers the OP's question, but not mine. Orsino Aug 2013 #203
It explains a genetic component, the very base of identity. it also explains why secondary sexual idwiyo Aug 2013 #209
Sorry, but I don't believe it on your say-so. Orsino Aug 2013 #214
I am not 'testifying' for anyone. I provided a basic scientific explanation from a respected idwiyo Aug 2013 #217
I don't know when Manning's journey began, and neither do you. Orsino Aug 2013 #219
When did yours start? idwiyo Aug 2013 #225
I don't know. Orsino Aug 2013 #228
According to your previous posts there must be a moment in your life when you 'knew' what your idwiyo Aug 2013 #235
Reread #217 n/t Orsino Aug 2013 #236
I don't need to re-read my own post. Is it safe to assume you actually understand how rude idwiyo Aug 2013 #242
It's not rude to speculate about the come and go of human sexuality and gender. Orsino Aug 2013 #335
Chelsea Manning asked everyone to address her as female. THAT is all that matters. idwiyo Aug 2013 #338
Clearly, that is all that matters to some people. Orsino Aug 2013 #346
Gender is not only biological. You refer to someone by the gender they identify with. Hosnon Aug 2013 #192
Actually, I'd argue that gender isn't biological at all. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #230
I think people are confusing mental with the brain... Humanist_Activist Aug 2013 #326
You don't call Bradley Manning a she. KamaAina Aug 2013 #202
Yes, it's confusing and even scary. Orsino Aug 2013 #207
We all start out as Newest Reality Aug 2013 #208
Just a Tien1985 Aug 2013 #301
It will likely be determined by the military courts markiv Aug 2013 #213
Educate yourself. eilen Aug 2013 #221
Calling me Angelina Jolie doesn't make me a woman (I'm a male....) lastlib Aug 2013 #222
Sex and gender are not the same thing. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #229
Angelina, this is Brad...are you not telling me something? Safetykitten Aug 2013 #233
what is it with this willful ignorance cali Aug 2013 #243
Not knowing is one thing. Or hell, even not *wanting* to know. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #331
Have a look at the article below please. I am interested in your opinion. idwiyo Aug 2013 #253
Explain to me LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #316
we are the gender we say we are. we may have a sex that doesn't match our gender La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2013 #224
Some of the responses to this thread... SMH... RedCappedBandit Aug 2013 #246
don't a few bad comments ruin the discussion. trumad Aug 2013 #249
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #247
Gender is mental, and gender is not the same as sex. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #254
Advice for not sounding like a bigot: noamnety Aug 2013 #270
The person who downloaded the data and gave it to Wiki is a MAN named Bradley Manning BlueStreak Aug 2013 #252
Chelsea was formerly known a Bradley Manning. Chelsea is still a pfc Manning. She specifically idwiyo Aug 2013 #300
If I ever meet this person, I will address her with any name he/she prefers BlueStreak Aug 2013 #303
Trumad, you are someone I love to read in the sports forum - TBF Aug 2013 #255
maybe I used that term loosely. .."educate" trumad Aug 2013 #271
Well I hope some of the answers have helped - TBF Aug 2013 #293
Thank you for asking this question Matariki Aug 2013 #257
Trumad...as I visit prisioners, I am sometimes confronted with this issue. msanthrope Aug 2013 #261
Great answer Msanthrope Matariki Aug 2013 #272
Thank you. I am no fan of Manning, but basic respect for her dignity indicates that we msanthrope Aug 2013 #274
Your post restores my hope Union Scribe Aug 2013 #294
Great post. nt TBF Aug 2013 #295
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #288
How simple-minded. nt Lex Aug 2013 #292
Excuse me? TBF Aug 2013 #296
I keep thinking of that Twain quote, about being better to appear a fool, than to open one's mouth nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #320
Might've helped if he'd not used a play on words dipsydoodle Aug 2013 #302
I can't wait for the day when he and she aren't used as pronouns but pe is used instead. valerief Aug 2013 #305
admirable of you to ask for education, Trumad steve2470 Aug 2013 #308
Hiya maybe this graphic can help LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #318
very good chart marions ghost Aug 2013 #336
If the individual makes crystal clear in public that "he" wishes to be a "she" marions ghost Aug 2013 #337
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Calling Bradley Manning a...»Reply #209